Constant arguments with DH about our teens, 2 in particular

[Thisisntme1]

This is a long one sorry, please bear with me as I’d love some advice and trying to give as much context as possible.
I’ve also put in paragraphs but I’m on the app so hope they show.

DH seems to always have an issue with two of our kids in particular.
To set some back story, we have 3 boys (20, 16, 13) and admittedly the 16yo is the easiest kid/teenager by far. He’s a very easy going, does what he’s told, people pleaser, doesn’t get into trouble sort of kid. The other two are a bit more work attitude wise but still fantastic kids that don’t get into any trouble.
They are both suspected ADHD/autism but the oldest has never been tested and the youngest is on a waiting list.

DH very obvious struggles with those two in particular and they notice it, the youngest often says he feels like his dad hates him.
If I mention it though DH blows up and accuses me of always defending and protecting them.
DH is never physically violent and I often agree (mostly) with the rules he wants to implement etc but it’s the way he goes about it that I hate.

There’s a lot of issues but I’ll start with the oldest.
He works full time, has a GF who is currently long distance for university, sees his mates occasionally and plays a sport during its season.
He’s a bit of an anxious kid and very introverted. He’s not a big partier or drinker, is not into clubbing, doesn’t do drugs, smoke or vape or anything.

We haven’t been charging him board as he has to live away from home for a week every six weeks for his trade and he pays for all of that himself but as that’s coming to an end we’ll start charging.
He pays all his own bills (phone, car etc), buys his own snacks etc. he doesn’t do many chores off his own back but will if you ask.
He eats dinner with us most nights and is not very chatty but otherwise spends a lot of time after work in his room. Playing Xbox with his mates or talking to his girlfriend. He wouldn’t come sit and watch tv with us for example.

DH is always mad at him for not talking much or doing nothing around the house, thinks he’s lazy, disgusting and disrespectful because he’s in his room a lot and thinks he only comes out to talk to us if he wants a lift somewhere (to train station for example)
I just think he’s living his life, doing his own thing in his down time and know that he’s a quiet kid. I’m happy to give him lifts if I’m not busy.
They never ask DH if they can help it as they know he’ll say no, or not be happy about it, but DH gets annoyed at me if I do it.

DH and I battle on this all the time. I understand he has his own opinion but the way he speaks about our DS is awful, like he’s a drug addict getting into trouble with the police.
If DS were to ever start doing chores off his own back or hanging it out with us all the time, DH would be suspicious of that too and say he’s only doing it because he wants something. It’s like he can never be pleased.
In these arguments I ask exactly what he would like DS to do that would make him happy but he doesn’t answer.
DH is very emotionally immature and starts being very sarcastic in arguments and you really don’t get anywhere.

I can see things with our youngest DS are going to be similar as he gets older. They already aren’t great and DH and him fight all the time.
Admittedly I have/do undermine DH sometimes. I don’t mean to, as I said I often agree with him taking technology off DS for bad behaviour as an example.
But DH doesn’t stay calm and consistent, he escalates as well which escalates DS and then suddenly technology is banned for 6 months or something unrealistic and DH is stomping around like a raging bull.
I’m aware what I do wrong and I’m trying to change it.

DH thinks the kids listen to me and respect me but not him, so I’ve tried pointing out to him the way I parent and how it’s different to DH so maybe if he wants what I have he could try doing things that way too, but he never does.
His favourite saying is “I’m just trying to hold our kids accountable"
But I also hold them accountable for their actions, just in a different way. I am a bit more permissive I suppose but I’ve stopped sweating the small stuff and I’m happier for it.

DH’s view is that he can’t say anything negative about 2 of the kids in particular as I jump to their defence and I guess I do but DH doesn’t just say “oh gees DS1 is giving my the shits today because of….”
He’ll say “DS is a disgusting, rude disrespectful kid and he can move out/fuck off if he doesn’t want to talk to me” (that’s not an exact example but very close to how he talks)

It’s really affecting our marriage and I don’t know how to move forward from here as we have the same argument literally every week.

Maybe your DH is the one that needs to be on the waiting list OP.

My DH has similar traits, finds it hard to keep a lid on it. he always does dramatic rules that he just makes up on the spot like "right that's is no Xbox for 6 months" when the crime was pretty minor. So yes he also gets undermined by me as he's being a prick.

Also your 20 year old sounds spot on, exactly the same as mine. Mine will come a watch TV and chat with me and DH as they have a shared hobby.

Does your DH meet them on their level? Arrange time with them, go for meals, drive them places? Dow she do anything to build a relationship?

Mine didn't until I pointed out they would be gone sooner and he needed to make a massive effort

Firstly your ds 20 sound like he is doing well. He is a man now and doesn't need to be disciplined.
Of course he could help out without being asked but maybe having a list up for everyone in the house might help with that. But otherwise he actually sounds great. My own ds was not as together by 20 and was later diagnosed with ADHd. I have to say his dad and himself did clash during his teens as dh thought he could solve everything with discipline while building a relationship is so much more fruitful.
What was dhs relationship like with his own dad?
He definitely sounds jealous of his own son and this is due to his own immaturity. I remember reading that if a son passes the dad out in terms of maturity the dad totally resents it as it stirs up a lot of inadequacy in himself. Counselling is the solution to this.
Is it possible your dh has ADHD himself and as he hasn't dealt with that he turns on his son. It's so sad. After all it's not your job to be his counsellor or whatever. You need to have a serious talk with him saying you are not prepared to stand by and see him do this all over again to 13 year old . He needs to examine himself and seek help or go!

My ExH was like this.

In retrospect, a few years later, now one of my children is diagnosed and medicated for adhd it's clear he has adhd.

He wasn't capable of being consistent and holding the same rules all the time.

So we had a deal whereby we'd back each other up IF policy about the children was agreed in advance.

So for example they got pocket money and could earn additional by doing chores. We both agreed that.

Then ExH would get angry with one of them for not emptying the dishwasher immediately when asked (NOT part of our agreed policy) and take all their pocket money off them.

They'd get pissed off (it broke the rules we'd all agreed as a family) and I'd get pissed off (he hadn't consulted me and so I refused to back him up),

He did on an intellectual level understand why I wanted to agree in private how to deal with the kids and us both stick to it he just absolutely couldn't do it on an emotional level.

He'd get angry about work or whatever and take it out on the kids regardless of what they'd done.

My kids are both in therapy. My son has talked about some of his experiences with his dad that I wasn't aware of and his friends have been taken aback by how abusive his dad was.

If you want to stay with him (and you may want to try this first anyway) try to talk to him about agreeing stuff in advance, having house rules etc.

Ime it has limited impact but it does make them realise they are breaking rules they want others to stick to.

Your 20yo sounds completely normal.

I'd consider seeing if there is any way you can support him to move out as this atmosphere is not good for him or indeed any of you.

Please also consider leaving yourself.

My ExH escalated to violence and my DD was badly bruised (he objected to her feeding the cats when he had told her not to).

Book him some parenting classes? Buy him some parenting books?

if he is very immature he may not have the capacity to truly reflect. I’d be asking him how he plans to build a positive mutually respectful relationship and bond with the kids, being mindful that he is an adult and needs to behave maturely.

Your 20 year old sounds very typical by the way, working, social in his own way, so no worries. He should have daily tasks, cooking or laundry or whatever.

Your sons sound normal.

just to add to a PP I don’t think it’s awful to call another person lazy or disrespectful. It’s annoying if it’s untrue.

calling someone disgusting is horrible

Your 20 year old is doing so well, and wise enough to stay out of the way of the grouchy bastard who dominates his home life.

But in terms of the kids, he was fantastic with them as babies and young kids.

Of course he was, he had the upper hand then. Now they have their own agency, he is pissed off they are not exactly how he wants them to be.

This is sad to read - your poor sons.

Your eldest is doing brilliantly

Your DH is a dick but you are also part of the problem by staying and exposing your sons to his toxic behaviour.

He is driving them away - they won't want a relationship with you both when they leave home and have their own families.

I think your kids sound lovely tbh. I think they are incredibly mild as teens go!!! This is a true story- when my brother was a teen, he was taking and dealing drugs, and there were nights my parents literally drove the streets looking for him. Police at house many times. Problems at school. One night my mum literally drove at walking speed as he walked on the pavement as she was so desperate to keep him away from drugs. If he was capable of even eating meals with us my parents’ would’ve rejoyced!!

Wondered if your husband is depressed. He sounds unhappy.. I don’t feel charging board is really a nice thing for your kids; my parents never did and I don’t think I would but maybe I’d insist on them putting something into savings instead or doing it for them.
I don’t think your kids are the issue. I think it’s your husband I’m sorry to say. Lots of luck x

OP my DH and I had a 'mini' version of this in the early teen years. It was so stressful. Thankfully he had the insight to realise that he was being triggered by our sons and his own upbringing (which to be fair was authoritarian and bloody awful). He took some courses and read some books. The alternative was that I would leave. I didn't say so explicitly but I felt it in my bones and I think he sensed it. Good luck.
PS your boys sound lovely and entirely typical.

You can't present a united front under the circumstances you're describing in my eyes because that would make you part of the problem and it is your job to protect the DC from harm wherever that harm comes from.

Your 20 year old is doing brilliantly - maybe as you are about to change the set up and get him to pay board when the week away finishes you could add some chores in which are realistic to be done every time because they work with his schedule. No point setting him up for failure with something which for whatever reason is going to become another stick for DH to beat him with. Agree/show him what's expected and press home why it's important to make a meaningful contribution to finances as well as tasks in a home as an adult.

The ADHD/Autism suspected in the other DC does not come out of thin air. If you don't think it's likely to come from you (possible if you think you are more on their wavelength) then it's almost certainly from DH. Has the possibility for either of you been discussed?

I think your 20yr old DS is doing brilliantly for a quiet child. maybe agree a few chores he could do - the clearing up after a meal. No way should he be expected to sit with the family in the evening and watch telly he's not interested in. Let him be.
Look out for your 13 yr old DS and provide lots of support
Your DH sounds like a bit of a bully

I bet your middle child is a layed back people pleaser because he’s watched the way your hubby has treated his older brother and he’s trying to avoid being treated the same. He’s walking on eggshells.

I feel so sad for your sons. I have adhd boy/girl twins and my son is exactly like this. I genuinely think he struggles with social communication. I’m lucky he loves me dearly and would do anything I ask - including if I say to him let’s have a conversation we can talk about anything you want I just want to interact with you.

my adhd daughter when she gets going can talk for hours which I also love

I've seen this too many times with fathers and their teenage sons.
It's basically biology that human society has tried to turn away from, largely successfully but not always so.
Look at any other species on the planet, once the males reach maturity the adult male leader (father) chases them out and they go on to find their place independent of their mother and father. This is important as it stops inbreeding and means the 'father' gets to continue his genetic line.
Society no longer works like that (thankfully) but I do genuinely believe some male brains haven't caught up with the new requirements expected of them whilst mothers are generally happier having their children around longer term. I notice it with my own husband and my 18 year old son, my husband got upset last week because he thought I had given my son one more roast potato than he had....its pathetic but I see it all of the time, my husband cannot stand the thought that my son is getting attention he believes I should be giving to him.
I deal with it by calling my husband out every single time, it shows him up for what he is and me and the kids have a good laugh about it. I gave up backing him on his parenting years ago (long story) so the kids take pretty much no notice of his ramblings.
If my husband was as bad as @Thisisntme1 I would have got rid of him a long time ago.

You are blessed that your sons are not into drink, drugs etc. Your husband needs to change the ways he speaks to them. By all accounts they are good kids.

He's not always like this. He can go weeks where he's happy and in a fine mood, but it's come up in the last 3-4 weeks and the mood seems to be lingering.

I actually agree with DH on some of his points, example if DS20 cooks something and just leaves the mess, of course I agree he should clean it up and without asking but I'm more likely to just talk to DS whereas DH will have a real go at him.
I've repeatedly told DH it's not about what he wants the kids to do or not do, it's how he goes about it that I have the issue with.

We've literally had so many discussions about this but we get nowhere. He's go to saying is "yes yes it's ALL MY fault, nothing is ever the kids fault and if I didn't say anything negative about them we wouldn't have an issue"

We did separate for a little while years ago for many reasons but the straw that broke me was he said "our kids are going to grow up to be crack addicts because they're so undisciplined" which was so ridiculous it was incomprehensible. They were 13, 9, 7 at the time.

He has been to therapy himself before but I think we need to go again.
It's like he can't see the positives in life anymore, he doesn't ever seem truly happy.

I've told him our kids are great kids, more self sufficient now and we're still early 40's so now is the easy time for us. We can be doing whatever we want really. So let's just enjoy them before they start moving out of home.

He is bullying his children and sounds more like a prison guard than a father. Instead of nurturing them and providing a strong foundation for them to thrive in the world, he is creating an environment filled with anxiety and power struggles at home. Parents who engage in this so-called "tough love" approach are disgusting. It sounds like you both have odd expectations There's nothing wrong with your children seeking space and privacy.
The family home should be a haven, not a battleground. The house should have a relaxed feeling. I know DP's dad was like this. They ended up physically fighting and worse in the end. They get on, I know DP has a constant internal battle reflecting on parts of his childhood with his domineering, overbearing father.
LTB from me.

His behaviour isn’t typical or normal

Oh OP. Mine was like that too. He was raised in a very authoritarian family and then went into the military, which made him worse. He too was fabulous when they were little, then awful as soon as they developed independent thinking and a voice. I'm afraid it didn't get better - our arguments were exactly the same as yours, he didn't want to make any changes, he also took it to ridiculous lengths every time.

In the end I divorced him because of his alcoholism, but I should have taken action much earlier because of his bad parenting (and it is bad parenting!). I'd advise you to consider whether you want to stay in this marriage - your relationship with your sons is at risk here.

Do you think the ADHD/autism didn't fall too far from the tree?

Your 20 year old sounds very typical. Our eldest is 26 and before she left home (at 24) she would join us for meals and then be in her room most of the evening.

I always think of that period, as the time that children need their own company and in a way it's preparing them for when they move out. I think children in their 20s need some space and it sounds as though your son is engaged with you all and just behaving like a normal person. I'm not quite sure what your husband's issue is.

Your husband needs to be very careful as when your children move out they will choose who they want to spend time with. If he doesn't make some major changes, then they won't want to spend time with him at all and it will really fracture the family.

Yep. You know just what's happening. Your h is too insecure to cope with the dc growing up and having their own opinions, and has to stamp his 'authority' by laying down rules and being abusive.

Pathetic.

He is damaging your dc with his toxic, abusive behaviour.

Do you think he's capable of change?

Perhaps DH is also autistic? That would account for the lack of emotional resilience he shows.
I also think your elder DS needs to step up slightly - he's an adult, he should be paying his way both financially and practically. So he should do his share of housework without having to ask, have conversations at meal times - prepare meals for the family too sometimes.
You and DH need to sort out what your expectations are, and if you cannot agree or compromise then things will not improve.

Very true.