Would you allow contact on Christmas Day?

[OneHardyMintZebra]

Just come out of lengthy private proceedings for child access with my ex who has been granted 6 hours every other weekend which is supervised by his mother because of his ‘medical condition’. He was emotionally abusive and controlling when we were together to the point where I fled with my kids and I’ve lost everything- house, belongings, money etc. It’s been a struggle to start from scratch by myself with 3 kids and he continues to make my life hell and doesn’t contribute a penny towards the kids even though he works full time (tried child maintenance but he still doesn’t pay!)

So he and his mum have asked to see the kids on Christmas Day. I’ve said no. Their contact will fall the weekend after Christmas. I initially said I would bring them Boxing Day which I still think is me being far too nice given everything that they’ve done! She said she’s working and asked for Christmas Eve stating it’s only fair if I’m not allowing them to come on Christmas Day. I’m tempted just to say you can’t have them at all and just stick with the agreed contact which is either a Saturday or Sunday. I know full well when their contact weekend falls on Christmas they will ask them for Christmas Day then and I’ll have no choice so I don’t feel I should have to do it now.
AIBU? I can’t tell if it’s my emotions ruling my decision here. For further context my oldest child isn’t his and I don’t want to have to ferry him about during the time over Christmas I have him, or him to have anything to do with the contact as he was physically hurt by my ex and I don’t believe he should have to see the man again where possible (the court didn’t agree and said he could stay in the car!) what would you do?

Stick with Boxing Day or their usual contact time, if you ask me. They sound awful and I completely agree with you re keeping your older child well away from your ex given the circumstances. Well done for getting away. Would you be agreeable to a FaceTime call at a set time?

Yanbu
No way would I be facilitating ANY contact

You need to think more strategically about this.

There are many, many years ahead of Christmasses, Easters, birthdays, Mothering Sunday, Father's Day (also falls on a Sunday) and other celebrations.

You need to think about whether you would rather find ways to share out all these occasions, not just this Christmas nor every few years when Xmas falls at a weekend.

You still sound (justifiably) angry and upset about this. But I think it would be in the interests of your DC (and also you yourself) to look again at the contact arrangements and work out which celebrations get special handling, and what that handling should be.

Stick to when his contact is supposed to be. Go back to CMS.

Hi OP, do the kids actually want to see him? (i.e do they have a good relationship with him?) If so I might be inclined to offer Boxing Day, but given the emotional abuse, control and his refusal to pay court-ordered CM to date I'd be led by the importance of boundaries going forward. You are not denying him any contact that he's entitled to, and you are not required to give him any in addition to this. If he cared about his children's quality of life he'd start paying for them (whether he gets contact or not).

(as in his kids that are his biologically) x

This! Having been through the court system with abusive ex, I can tell you that they do not care what he’s done to you and will back him to have contact because he has parental rights. This would mean they would likely go for splitting times like Christmas and also times during school holidays. My child does Christmas Eve till 2pm Christmas Day at home one year, then 2pm Christmas Day and Boxing Day the following year. It sucks having to send them away but courts always give these abusive men far more than they should because of their, “parental rights”. It’s a disgrace.
Try to stay child focused. What you want to happen, should you end up back in court is to show you have been reasonable and child focused. You also don’t want this to catch up with you next time it’s their weekend and you don’t get to see your kids on Christmas Day because of it down the line.
I know it’s enraging and worrying but try to take emotion out of it because that’s what the court would do.
As for him not paying maintenance, get back on to CMS. Push for them to make him pay. They won’t do anything if you don’t keep on top of them. Unfortunately, again their system is totally flawed and too many abusive men manage to evade paying for their children. My ex hasn’t given me a penny in 12 years. Doubt I’ll see any now.

As the contact agreement has only just been concluded, I would stick with that for this year.
Everyone will be getting use to the new set up and it won't have bedded in by Christmas.
The routine is best for the children - any adjustments have to be made in the best interests of the children always.
Withholding finance is just another form of abuse/control. If you can follow it up, do. Believe if he is working, it can be taken at source ie be he gets his pay.
Good luck

Would your children enjoy seeing them? I think this may be one of those times when you pick your battles. A few hours on the afternoon of Christmas Eve to me sounds perfectly reasonable. You can have a bit of quiet time to yourself or be able to do last minute wrapping or some prep for Christmas lunch. Lots of parents would love a bit of a breather over the Christmas period which can feel like a long slog when there isn’t much to get out and do. But that’s only if it would be a happy time for your dc. If they wouldn’t want to go, that would be different.

Exactly this.
Don't think only with your own emotions and anger, and don't think only about what would be fair to DH.
Start putting the childrens best intrest first.
Do they absolutely want to see him over Christmas, or do they not mind waiting another week?
If anything, apart from all the hardship and struggles, it would be great if your children could at least grow up feeling that they had a say in the whole thing.

How does having contact impact DC behaviour?

If seeing them Christmas Eve is likely to ruin Christmas Day it would be a definite no.

Overall I would stick to the agreed contact with the caveat of "let's get current arrangements embedded and look at additional contact in 6 months and make a plan from then onwards."

Ask CMS to use collect & pay? Maintenance isn't optional!

So I don’t communicate with my ex directly now, everything goes via his mum as he was incapable of being civil even just to arrange contact. Court had been going on since January this year. Originally he could have had overnight contact (again supervised by his mum) every other weekend and one day the following weekend. Since January he has had the kids once overnight. All the other overnight contacts have been cancelled (by him). As I presume they don’t want them for that long as I imagine they don’t settle well at night etc. They are now only 20 months old and just turned 3.

There has been times (not recently) when I have cancelled contact purely due to having no money to get the kids there and they did not offer to help, just took me back to court to apply for enforcement which would cost a hell of a lot more than to help me out with transport costs! This is a man who doesn't care if I'm struggling to feed his kids so I can't view him as a good dad. But yes I guess I am still angry and upset with everything which is why I can’t tell if I’m making the right decision. And I don’t want to end up back in court as another PP said they do not care about any of this or that he doesn’t pay me, and simply told me to get financial support from my family!

I accept that some years they will have them Christmas Day because that’s when it falls. And birthdays etc if that falls on his weekend. That’s out of my control. He will want those days even though the rest of the year he’s not bothered. So I’m wondering whether it’s reasonable to say no given that the court order doesn’t say that I have to facilitate the contact at Christmas. Or if I’m just asking for more trouble down the line. If it was the other way around 100% they would say no but I guess that’s not a reason not to do it. Then again I’m also aware I’m a bit of a pushover as they have gotten away with everything to date

Also I did ask CMS to arrange collect and pay back in May! This still hasn’t been arranged but have now had a letter yesterday saying they will from the end of November so will see

Just keep a written record of everything to support yourself if you have to go back to court at all.
Try to only communicate with his Mum via text or email, so again everything is in writing.
Has it been clarified that you have to take the children to him for contact by the courts or him?

I agree with @mindutopia . Think about what is best for the kids.

If you are struggling financially to the extent that you cannot afford to transport your children for contact and it's a struggle to meet their other needs at times (and no judgement, lots of people are, in many cases due to useless dads) and contact is going to cost you money that is better put towards feeding your DC, clothing them and buying them gifts, then changing the contact arrangements would be a big fat NO from me if I were in your position.

Would his Mum pick them up for a couple of hours on Christmas Eve and bring them back?

I was going to say contact CMS because they should be able to extract his payment from his wages if he's not paying but it sounds like progress is being made.

Re Christmas, I think you need to think about the DC. I would tell them they can have a few hours on Christmas eve but they need to collect and drop the chidlren after. This is in THEIR best interests, notwithstanding your ex's behaviour.

Does the order not reference Christmas and special occasions?

At 20 months and 3 years, I don’t think it will make a huge difference to them if they see their dad on Christmas Eve or at the weekend.

So it’s all about them. And your ex plus his mum wanting to see the dcs ‘for Christmas’.

Seeing that you have been in a place where you couldn’t afford to play to go and see them, I’d offer that his mum is coming to pick the dcs up. Then up to them to decide where they then want to go.

Also, why is it that you’re always the one who travels to them?
Is it far away?

The court order does state that I have to drop and collect the children to his mum. Originally the contact was at dads house and he lives nearly 2 hours away which is when I was struggling financially (given that I was down to statutory maternity pay when I left him and I had to furnish an entire house again as he wouldn’t let me have any of my belongings) so it was a difficult time. So yes at times I had to prioritise doing a food shop over a 4 hour round trip for contact. Or buying my children beds etc.
It is still hard now but not to the same extent. And given that contact is at his mums now who is local-ish to me, that doesn’t cause much issue.

My address is also confidential so it would have to me dropping the kids off unless we arranged a place but then I guess I may as well go to hers anyway. Before it had to me because legally it’s viewed as me being the one who left, so I have to return the children to him for contact apparently. And therefore the cost is also on me.

The court order doesn’t reference Christmas, birthdays etc.

It does sound like you have maybe been too soft on them in one area. When they have their time with the DC's, it should be them paying for transport, never you. They should be travelling to the DC's to see them, not the other way round, its not for you to facilitate contact, you just need to make your DC's availablefor it to happen. Could you drop them off nearby to someone you trust ( family?), so you don't have to interact with them, or divulge your address, if its secret.
I'm glad the collect and pay is getting sorted, no way should he get away with non-payment.

Boxing day will be sufficient!

It doesn't matter when contact falls. The resident parent gets Christmas day.

@Opentooffers unfortunately that was ordered by the court so I had no choice in that area. I’m not sure if that’s the norm or whether it’s because he had a very good solicitor. I on the other hand had legal aid who did evidence to the court that I couldn’t afford what was being asked of me. That’s when they told me to ask my family for help! 🙄the whole ordeal was horrific and re traumatising quite frankly.
And I don’t have anyone to help re facilitating contact as everyone I know is scared of the man. He has caused damage to my parents house and cars so they won’t have him or his family anywhere near by choice. And I can’t put that on people. They would come with me though if I needed them to but so far his mum has been quite civil

@CBM40 is that a legal thing? Currently the order just states every other weekend on either a Saturday or Sunday (determined by them due to his mother working shifts) and they have to tell me by the Monday of that week. So I presumed when Christmas falls on a Saturday for example I wouldn’t have a choice?