I need to know

[Iamdyinghere]

I really need some advice. Been with my fiance for nine years, and loving every minute of it. Never been so happy in my entire life and he apparently felt/feels the same.

So, three weeks ago I accidentally see a guy's name on his WhatsApp with no content in the chat. So coming from two very toxic relationships, I ask him if he has saved a woman by a man's name, and been deleting the messages so I wouldn't catch on. He admits this.

A bit of background - I noticed that we weren't having intimate time as frequently as we had in the past, say between once and four times a month, but being more on the senior side, I felt that maybe he was having trouble in the downstairs, and wasn't going to put more pressure on him.

Back to now, he tells me that he started seeing this woman, who incidentally is my friend and my neighbor, because I wasn't having enough sex with him. What a shocker. So he tells me that they have been meeting up for about six months, which I think it might be more, but that they had only been kissing and fondling. Oh dear God, I can't even think about this without feeling as though I'm going to have a panic attack.

Never had sex. He wanted to and tried to, even sent her songs with words of how he wanted her to be with her, but he says they never had sex.

I asked him to prove it, which he can't, because he deleted their chats after sending messages. So, I've got to just believe it?

Does he even want to be with me? Has he fallen out of love with me? He says he made a mistake and that he wants to rebuild the trust we had in each other, but how do I move on if I don't know if he's lying to me about the sex. Because that's a big thing. I don't know if I would stay to build the relationship up again, if they had been having sex.

I desperately want to believe that to be true, because I think I could move past that, but I need to know because I cannot one day find out that they had sex and that it was more than just wanting to have sex. Because I mean, kissing someone once is a mistake, but seeing someone for six months, more than 20 times, is a totally different story.

What difference does it make whether they had sex or not? He's admitted to an affair, who cares if he wants to be with you, after that he should be out the door. Ask yourself why you'd be willing to tolerate being cheated on, don't you think you're worth more?

Does it matter if he had sex with her? He say he wanted to and tried to so in my mind they might as well have (from the perspective of measuring the betrayal).

He's a cheat and a loser and you need to kick him to the kerb sooner rather than later.

You know the answer, I presume this is just venting.

Sex / no sex is irrelevant.
He's cheated, pretty significantly and doesn't deserve a second chance.

I can’t see how having sex even once isn’t okay, but carrying on a relationship with this woman for 6 months and essentially doing everything OTHER than sex is okay?

I have a no tolerance policy on cheating in my own marriage, but in general I’d find a one off shag much easier to get over than a 6 month relationship. Sex = potentially no feelings involved, 6 months of a relationship- there’s absolutely feelings involved.

The majority of the advice you'll get on here is to finish things with him. Having been through similar with my partner, I know damn well it's not as easy as that. Sorry you're facing all this.

He says now he wants to end it blah blah - but that's only because you found out, surely? He was prepared to do it once, why wouldn't he think it's ok to do it again (including the lying to you, as well as the unfaithful intimacy)..and the next one he might well 'go all the way' with if she wants that too.

RavenA, thank you, yes, you are right. It's not just upping and going. I suppose I want to know if I'm being naive, because I so badly want to believe him. Were you able to get back on track?

Of course you 'want to believe him' . That is why so many unfaithful partners get away with it for so long. They abuse your trust until you can bear it no longer.

He has wanted to have sex with her and has gone into detail (which must have been very hurtful) about how he tried to. The only reason he has not )if it's true) is because of her saying. No

Surely this is enough for you to see that he doesn't respect you even if he might claim that he still wants to be with you. Ie having his cake and eating it.

However big your fears of not having him in your life, how much you love him, your fear of being alone and 'losing' him... please see this for what it is and end things for you. For your self respect.

Even if he hasn't had sex he has spelt out loud and clear how little regard he has for you. M

You stay with him this time and he will do this again (and again) as you have effectively given him permission. To

I thought I had a zero tolerance policy, until it happened. If we weren't married with kids though he would have been long gone. He will do this again without doubt. Please don't subject yourself to this misery and doubt, kick him out.

He’s lying. He’s deleted the messages to avoid incriminating evidence.

You could speak to the OW but he may get her to lie too. I bc wouldn’t waste any more time on him and I wouldn’t believe a word he says, I know from experience- it’ll drive you mad and damage your mental health as well as completely damaging your self esteem if you stay.

What difference does it make if he put his penis in her or not? He wanted to, he tried, he would have done if he could, he 'fondled' her (everything but penetration), he had feelings for her. So what if he didn't manage to put his penis in her? Why do you need to know that detail to make a decision?

Ask your friend and neighbour?

But ultimately

HE SNOGGED, GROPED AND FONDLED YOUR FRIEND FOR SIX MONTHS.

HE WOULD HAVE SEX WITH HER IF HE COULD

HE STOPPED BECAUSE YOU FOUND OUT

THERE WILL BE OTHERS

I actually think he's lying, and he's had sex with her, and maybe others as well.

I'm so sorry, OP. That's awful of him (and of her).

You need to end this. Chuck him out.

It was a bit weird to be engaged for nine years though - either you're going to get married or you're not.

Regardless, he's behaved appallingly and you must be feeling terrible.

He's very good at lying so you will never know without proof, which will be difficult to obtain.
There is a WhatsApp hack (please correct me if I'm wrong people) you delete WhatsApp from his phone. Reinstall and when it asks if you want the archived messages say yes.
You might find these (or some of them) reappear on his phone.
I'm not suggesting you do this, it's an option if the lying is grating and you want to decide one way or another 🌸

He has told you the minimum he thinks he can get away with, and what he's told you is bad enough.

Are you being naive? No. You just want your relationship to work; and you want it to work with him. It's a hair's breadth between a successful and unsuccessful relationship. All it takes is a mutual respect and regard for one another. Making each other your priority. He's not doing that, so you feel used, naive, Insecure, disrespected and perhaps even worried about the future.

It's hard to start again when you get to a certain age. I've thought about leaving many times. But being 55, and not altogether certain I'd meet someone else stops is one of the many things which stop me.

Are we back on track? Sort of. My partner has a very arbitrary approach to our relationship. I don't think that my feelings matter too much to her. Her thing was dating apps and micro-cheating. I think she liked to chat to men about sex online. Didn't exactly make me feel warm and fuzzy about our relationship! I just felt disrespected, unloved, and of no value to her

We're still together though, buy I can't say I trust her 100%. She on the other hand, gets angry if I ask about the dating apps still on her phone. She says that they're all inactive and hates that I'm Insecure about them, but refuses to get rid of them. That's where we are. Paradoxically, we are actually good together in every other way. I've taught myself to cook whilst being with her. We go on holiday and have a lovely time together. I support her in every way possible. But there is this murkiness on her side which stops us becoming to couple I'd love us to be.

Better to be on your own then to be so badly accompanied.

I don't believe they haven't had sex - it doesn't make sense. If the OW was willing to kiss and fondle, why would she stop at more?
He says he went looking elsewhere because sex dropped off with you; he says he's not getting sex with her, and yet still maintains a relationship with her. If sex is what he's after, and he's not getting it with her, surely he'd have dropped her and gone looking for someone willing to provide what he says he wants.

Do you really want to be with someone whose first reaction to a supposed lack of sex with you is to go looking for it elsewhere, instead of talking to you about it?

He's blaming his actions on you. 'You made me do it because you don't provide me with enough sex.' Bollocks to that. A feeble and hurtful excuse. It's blame-shifting.
You deserve better.

Sorry but your relationship is doomed. Had he told you that he had made a mistake and couldn't lie to you any longer you MAYBE could have rebuilt something, but he only confessed when you confronted him. If you hadn't seen the message how much longer would he have continued disrespecting you by kissing and fondling your 'friend' and neighbour? Another six months, a year - the rest of his life? He says he went to her because the frequency of sex with you had lessened but they don't have sex. Does that sound plausible to you, because it doesn't to me. If it was sex he was looking for why would he be seeing someone else who isn't giving that to him? If there's something lacking in your relationship, he should be speaking to you about it, not fondling another woman.
I get that you care for him. I get that the relationship is a longstanding one and you don't want to lose what you had together. I get that after so long the thought of him not being in your life is scary. The choice is of course yours - personally I could forgive a drunken one night stand, that's a mistake. A six month relationship where he's sneaking around , covering his tracks with false names in his phone? Nope, that would destroy my trust and eat away at me until I ended things. I wish you well, and hope you find what you need in life (self respect without your lying cheating partner)

Meeting for six months just for 'kissing and fondling' is cheating and never going any further sounds unlikely.
I'm sorry you're going through this OP it must be awful when you thought you were finally in a good relationship.