The heartbreak of female friendships...

[Keyryder]

I've been thinking back on my female friendships and... i can honestly say, they've caused as much hurt, in not more, than any relationship.

I mean, female friendships...well, they're supposed to based on nothing but warmth and affection, aren't they? No hidden agendas. No ego trips. No half truths. Just women supporting other women...right? So maybe because we never questioned their motives, it hurts more when it turns out they were not as we thought.

Looking back...there was the friend who stole from me and lied about it. Then the university friend who flirted shamelessly with my crush right infront of me.
Then there was the one who got a new partner and vanished off the face of the earth. The one who took affront when we didn't share the same view on a current hot topic. And several more over the last 20 years.

I'm tired.

I miss so much having that close female friendship. And now I'm taking to someone new and all I can think is - how is this one going to go tits up?

I don't worry before dates.
Buy when it comes to women, I'm legit terrified. Like I actually feel it took me 2 years to get over the loss of the last friendship. We were close. And just because I said I didn't agree on one issue, boom, gone.

Anyway, random rant.
Anyone else struggling with female friends?

I feel I always get on with women. It's just seems to be a few years in they change or they do something shit and I'm left reeling :/

Hey.. sorry for the late response.

Presently, I have zero close female friends.

I've had a few friendships over the years, all of which I thought were unbreakable.

The longest (forty ish years) accused me of something that I couldn't get past. I did try, but the issue clouded my feelings so much.

Another friendship that I thought was solid went tits up when she met a guy she was bowled over by... I was both excited for her, as well as supportive... she dropped me like a slippery stone.

A lady who told me that she valued my company because she felt like she could talk to me with complete honesty and openness... she moved address and left me no way to contact her.

I had a truly wonderful friendship with someone thirteen years younger than I.
I am so sad to tell you that she died (in her thirties) very suddenly, and I felt at the time that id lost a part of me... twenty five years later, I still think of her.

I am lucky in that my partner is also my best friend, and he's got an excellent way of understanding typical female "issues".

BUT

I would like a female friend.
Someone I could honestly trust and she could deffo trust me.

I love the company I share with my man, but I do think it's also healthy to have time out with a mate...
.... you know, a chat, a "crease up" laugh.
Someone who I could talk "issues" with, and they could do the same with me.

So yes, I do "get" you.

I think that now that I'm a lot older, it would be harder to establish a friendship that I've described above.

Maybe its easier if you are holding a job that's not wfh, or if you join some kind of club or sport, or something that involves other people.

Unfortunately, I can't find a friend that way, and because I've been a carer for a good many years, and will be so, going forward, the opportunity for me, isn't there.

I hope you can find the opportunity OP.
Just be careful, you can just as easily get hurt again. Even though you probably learned the bad stuff from previous times, it can still happen again.

If it helps, I read that you should aim to be interesting and interested...

Good luck 🙏🏻

I can understand this I've had friends disappear and also worked unsociable hours and brought up a family for 20 yrs leaving no free time to meet anyone.
I was too exhausted to do much.
I still have hope of meeting friends in my late 50s.
I do value my freedom though.

Yes, some ghostings and one particularly nasty definite dropping in my case!

I don't know if it's been worse overall than rejection by men, and in my case family have also betrayed me, so I try and view it as the stresses of life generally. I also try not to let it colour the relationships that are left - but that is the really hard bit.

Yes you are so right. It’s so painful and somehow way more confusing than when romantic relationships break down.

there is no acceptable way to break up with a friend so you are often left wondering what happened.

Also when a romantic relationship ends you can tell people and often get a lot of sympathy and support. There is no equivalent when a female friendship breaks down and there is often a lot of secrecy and shame surrounding it.

Uggh you are so right, it’s HORRIBLE

i have no really close friends. It’s been hard to maintain some once close friendships due to distance and since having kids. I’ve made new friends but they are not ‘best’ friends.

My childhood best friend and I have really drifted apart very recently and it’s really sad. We live a couple of hours away but our lives have just diverged to the point where our friendship isn’t surviving. I’ve know her for twice as long as I’ve been with my husband - 40 years - and it is genuinely heartbreaking.

Honestly, OP, who gave you the idea that female friendships are some kind of idealised situation where it’s all ‘warmth and affection’, ‘no ego trips’ and ‘women supporting other women’? Women are just human beings too, with similar flaws to men, only differently socially conditioned. Ok, assuming both parties are straight, there isn’t the element of sexual attraction, and allied assumptions about fidelity and the potential for commitment, cohabitation etc but there’s not dissimilar potential for hurt and misunderstanding.

I don't think I've experienced this, to be honest. Yes, some friendships haven't been as good as I'd hoped, some friends have been a bit rubbish - but I don't think a female friend has ever deeply hurt me.
I have had problems with women throughout life. I've had way more problems with women than men! As a kid, it was girls who bullied me. Random teenage girls beat me up, I've had female bosses who were just awful! I've met sone sleazy men in my life but really haven't had any major problems with men compared to women.
However, the nasty women I've met have never been friends.

I agree but I'm not sure why it's any surprise. On what basis would you hold women to a different standard?

I'm not bothered about student idiocy or petty stuff, but I've noticed during cancer treatment who's been supportive and it hasn't really been my 'close' female friends of many years' standing. In fact I've had to cut one off as her behaviour was so bad and I'm tempted for two (although I won't). They've had life stuff happening but simply haven't shown any care (well, one sent flowers) at all while I've genuinely made a lot of effort for years.

The ones who have been genuinely and consistently supportive in a pragmatic way rather than random platitudes now and again or delving into their own topics have actually been a complete surprise both male and female.

Oh I’m sorry OP, that does sound difficult.

I haven’t experienced this myself, my female friends are an amazing support system and we’ve seen each other through absolutely everything, we don’t agree on everything but nobody does, we love each other and respect each other and I do feel very grateful to have such an amazing group of women around me. I’m sorry you don’t have that.

I think you should take a good look at the role you played in the break down of these friendships.

It takes two to tango and a victim complex is never endearing.

There is no one in my life or who has been in my life that I am glad is or was in it. It's such a sad thing to say but it's true.
I have no friends now nor partner.
Feeling a bit shit now. I'll take the dog out.

My female friendships (and family relationships) have been far more traumatic than my romantic one. I've been with my DH since my teen years so he's been a constant in my life and hasn't ever let me down in a way that matters (carefully worded to underline he is human, and he has shrunk my favourite cashmere jumper so he's not infallible ) many of the women I have passed in my life have been hurtful, stressful, or let me down in some way.

It's why I'm cautious of the threads recently saying friends are more important, that hasn't been my experience. But I do recognise it's a bit of a catch 22 that because I've always had my husband I've perhaps given less of myself over to friendships, the same for him.

I would like some more significant friendships but I do think it's hard to establish at an older age, I often wish I had a sister.

female friendships ARE relationships. You might not like everything someone says, or does, or you might move, or find someone you get on better with, is more fun. You might really like their kids or not. Their dog etc

it’s wise to have a range of friends so there isn’t too much pressure on time and expectations. Some love to go out, some don’t etc

This. Women are people too, just as full of baggage and insecurity as men!

On the whole and despite a few ups and downs, my female friends have been amazing, and have supported me through some of the worst times.

This women supporting women is a fallacy.
I have been a member of a social group for ladies 50's / 60's who want friendship and it's eye opening .
I would say a third have mental health challenges which affects their readiness / ability to bond with new people .
I can't tell you the number of no shows or arrangements cancelled last minute .
Someone will go to the effort of researching and booking a restaurant when 6 or so people say they'd like to go only for the person setting up to be ghosted when it comes to confirming and deposit paying .
There's a huge explosion of what can only be described as baby language , simpering greetings followed by faux hugs . Saccharine empathies with no real help or advice .
It's truly bizarre to navigate new friendships.

My friendships have improved over time, the school age/twenty something ones mostly drifted as we all changed and I moved around. I've made a few really good friends since I left a more cliquey group (well, was gradually shunned as it was defined by the men and their partners, and once I wasn't with the boyfriend I was no longer welcome, his new girlfriend simply replaced me, not that I realised that for a long time or it was every said outright).

Friendships for me are now low stakes but supportive, non bitchy, often based around a shared interest. I really value my friends and keep in touch with them and make an effort.

I am also now clear with DH that I am not going to hang out with his friends wives unless they are friendly to me - it's not a given that I go along to things as The Wife if I don't feel welcome or accepted, which has been the case with one particular woman. The husband wants to invite us to things, I know the wife doesn't like me, I'm not going!

I'm currently in the process of stepping away quietly from a long standing friendship group. It's painful but I'm feeling a lot better for it.

The group has just become toxic. We only meet up a few times a year but it feels like some kind of life audit. How much money do you have, how successful are you, where are you going on holiday. Its become clear that one of the group uses it as a way of validating her own life. It's taken me a long time to really see how insecure she is and despite playing the role of kind and supportive friend, she's actually mean to one of the other group through constant weight loss comparison, subtle body shaming and always suggesting the other person has mental health issues.

It's corrosive and the other friend has confided in me how toxic she thinks it all is and how much its effected her. It's very sly and would be easily denied if brought up, but it's clear when you see it.

Sadly another member of the group thinks it's all hilarious and completely enables the behaviour.

In the group chat it's all 'look at me' posts, endless pictures if glasses of wine being drunk or pictures of swimming pools. It's actually really tedious and just one upmanship all the time.

I don't think this is what female friendship should be about, especially not in your 40s! I'm doing a slow fade out rather than ghosting. There's no point having a big conversation because how do you actually say to someone you don't like their personality?

Its sad but I'm feeling more peaceful and will definitely stay in contact with one of the group.

Yes, I can relate. I love having female friends, but many have given me nothing but pain over the years. One decade long friendship changed overnight after I won a promotion at work and she couldn't handle it. Suddenly all my confidences were shared with everyone, I became the source of really malicious gossip at work and became the social pariah. God knows what she was telling people in order to provoke that strong a response.The gaslighting was the worst - where she flat out denied having a problem and insisted she was " over the moon" at my success, but everything pointed differently. When you've experienced that kind of betrayal it's extremely difficult to trust again. I completely ghosted her in the end as despite my best efforts to resolve things she consistently denied there being anything to sort out, and continued to drag my name through the mud behind my back. That and the game playing, flakiness at making arrangements, failure to acknowledge special occasions, lack of emotional support when going through tough times, all pointed to the fact this was no " friend".

I've never had any of that, but then I've not really had made any close friends since I was in my early 20s as life has been a bit busy with family and work. I've had lots of contextual friends and acquaintances through school, work and social activities but it's family- DH, DDs, DM, SIL, PIL who I'm close to and rely on for things. Old friends are more for good times and I catch up with them a few times a year.

I can’t agree - the only upset and terrible behaviour I’ve experienced in my life has been from men.

What I will say is that I have quite a few female friends but I don’t tend to have “intense” relationships. Apart from when I was a teenager I’ve never had that chatting every day/always popping round to one another’s house for coffee type friendship.
I do have a close friend whom I meet about once a month and we talk about everything however I wouldn’t want to meet more often than that or be more embroiled in one another’s lives.

I wonder if some women who have these very close relationships are quite intense and it sometimes becomes a bit much and doesn’t have staying power? Or are empaths who attract narcissistic types who use you up and then dump without a backward glance once they lose interest or find new supply.

My sister is very much like this and tends to have very intense female relationships when she’s single, talking every day, socialising all the time together, having in depth heart to hearts - which always die a death as soon as she meets a man. She just completely ghosted the last one who then was ringing my dm upset and bewildered. She is very flakey and pretty selfish.

Honestly I agree with these two posts. You seem to have a lot expectations of what others need to provide you with in friendships.

Do those people exist in your life? I genuinely hope they do.

My friendships bring the fun, connection and joy into my life. I meet my own needs for the vast majority of things but a good night out with great belly laughs or on the other side a personal crisis and a shoulder to cry on that comes from my female friends. They are not therapists, not idealised humans, just people.

I did have a friend with tonnes of expectations for all of her relationships. Men have to be a certain height, certain education, certain profession, certain ways to meet her needs in very prescribed ways, women have to be available to be at the end of criticism and judgement. We all fall miles below her standards. She is endlessly disappointed with all of her relationships, she rarely has romantic relationships and many of her friends ran a mile during Covid because she took everyone over with conspiracy and anti vax. It was everyone else’s fault. It is very upsetting for her but her expectations from others are very much part of her problems.

In your 20's female friendships are the most important thing, even more so than family. But people mature and evolve or they don't and that is usually why female friendships drift.

It's not that I 'hold women to a different standard' it's just, it's kind of a given that men often have agendas. We can write them off as having being 'a bit of a dick'. Dust ourselves off and get on with things.

But when a woman betrays you or goes full dickhead, you're always paranoid that you've done something wrong. You go over and over it. Could I have seen her more/less? Did I forget something important like a birthday? Has there been some misunderstanding?

As for Ms 'look at your own actions' unm well cheers thanks. I'm so narcissistic I never thought to do that! 🙄

But in the particular scenarios in my post. No, nothing wrong in those particular ones. Nothing to provoke those behaviours anyway! Unless you count voicing my view in that last one. And I kicked myself for ages about that. Why did I have to say it? But tbh...if you can't have a different opinion to a friend on a subject, without them throwing a strop and vanishing, then they aren't a friend, right?

But I can hardly be blamed for thieves or frenemies. I support my friends and I want the best for them. I'm certainly not perfect or selfless or always on my best form but I like to think that I value the people in my life and do what I can to be a good friend.

I've had to end friendships (eg the first 2 mentioned) and I'm sure I've played parts in friendships ending too over the years.

I have six female friends plus three much older females in my life.

1. pretty much dropped me when I split from my now ex h, even though we live on the same road. Known for 20 years.
2. . my oldest friend. Will never fall out. Always there for each other, can say anything, disagree, but we know we both have each others back. Friends for 40 years.
3. . a relatively new friend again after years of nothing. Don't know what I'd do without her atm.
4. Don't see her much as she can't travel but a lovely lady, 20+ years older than me but makes no difference. Friends for 25 years.
5. drifted apart as I wasn't very well, she was judgy. Friends for 15 years.
6. . Friends for 38 years with a gap of 20 ish years with no contact. Hanging by a thread atm.

And no I wouldn't say my female friendships are intense.

I'm not a huge texter for a start so there's never any love bombing weirdness. Depending on the friend and our schedules we might only see eachother once a fortnight. Sometimes it'll be as much as twice per week. I make sure to maintaim a balance with what works for us both.

Usually our friendships are light and easy.
Noting intense. But we can chat about the deep stuff too.

They usually feel healthy.
Well, until, they aren't.