The heartbreak of female friendships...

[Keyryder]

I've been thinking back on my female friendships and... i can honestly say, they've caused as much hurt, in not more, than any relationship.

I mean, female friendships...well, they're supposed to based on nothing but warmth and affection, aren't they? No hidden agendas. No ego trips. No half truths. Just women supporting other women...right? So maybe because we never questioned their motives, it hurts more when it turns out they were not as we thought.

Looking back...there was the friend who stole from me and lied about it. Then the university friend who flirted shamelessly with my crush right infront of me.
Then there was the one who got a new partner and vanished off the face of the earth. The one who took affront when we didn't share the same view on a current hot topic. And several more over the last 20 years.

I'm tired.

I miss so much having that close female friendship. And now I'm taking to someone new and all I can think is - how is this one going to go tits up?

I don't worry before dates.
Buy when it comes to women, I'm legit terrified. Like I actually feel it took me 2 years to get over the loss of the last friendship. We were close. And just because I said I didn't agree on one issue, boom, gone.

Anyway, random rant.
Anyone else struggling with female friends?

I feel I always get on with women. It's just seems to be a few years in they change or they do something shit and I'm left reeling :/

who gave you the idea that female friendships are some kind of idealised situation where it’s all ‘warmth and affection’, ‘no ego trips’ and ‘women supporting other women’? Women are just human beings too, with similar flaws to men, only differently socially conditioned.

^this is the explanation for the different standards you are holding women too. Nobody thinks you are narcissistic but your view on what women are hasn’t held up to even your own scrutiny? Women are just people. You are not choosing well for whatever reason usually that comes from early understandings developed about relationships and things along the way that may have damaged your self esteem. You did not deserve that those asshole friends stole from you etc.

From all your posts, you sound incredibly level headed, self aware and a supportive, loyal friend. You're not doing anything " wrong " OP, other than being unfortunate enough to attract users, disrespectful and dishonest friends. That's your starting place - define your boundaries and work out what are acceptable vs. unacceptable behaviours to you, and remain loyal to them.

That was meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek. I'm sorry if it didn't come accriss that way. I certainly don't think women are perfect.

It's more that you do not expect them to have an agenda like a man looking for a relationship might.

I hear ya @Keyryder I gave up on making friends a few years ago. Some of them were OK whilst they lasted, some not so much. Some were fine, but fizzled out when they - or I - left the workplace, or the area, and some just got toxic. And I had one friend who (as a pp said,) got a bit too friendly with my DH. (He wasn't bothered with her! It was all her flirting and he found it weird and it made him uncomfortable!) Then a few friends became unreliable and flaky, or bitchy and spiteful.

I seemed to sometimes attract bossy, opinionated friends, or friends who were very nosey and intrusive. I have also made friends in big hobby groups, and have found them to eventually be annoying, or loud and obnoxious, or just flaky.

To be honest, I have had it now. I am nearly 60, and really CBA. Much happier just alone, or with DH, or with my adult DC and their partners. I do have a couple of friends who I have known for 25+ years who live an hour or more away, who I see 6-8 times a year for coffee or a pub lunch, but we're not in each other's lives much really. And that's how I like it.

Too much drama with 'friends.' I do occasionally feel a pang of envy towards people who have friends - and have had them since school, and are really close, and do things together/go away together/do things with the kids and grandkids together, but I do suspect that these friendships are not always as rosy as they are made out to be.

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With reference to this topic, random question, have any of you have foreign female friends? the reason why I am asking is because although I have been here for over 30 years I've never made a close friend, I've acquaintances but not friends. I did try very hard to build relationships, I offered childcare, lifts, cooked meals when they were poorly, baked cakes for birthdays, checked in if they were ill, but I am forever treated like an outsider, as an example, i turned 50 last year and normally when someone does we all contribute for flowers and a tea in a very nice local place, i barely got a Happy Birthday, another two ladies turned 50 two weeks later, I was asked to bake a cake for one of them and to contribute for the other ladie's gift as well as to attend a dinner for them, I did not go, I felt it was the line, I am not a resentful person, or at least i didn't think i was, but this hurt me so much, they have gone on trips without me, arranged days out in front of me i am not invited too, i feel i am forever begging for some kindness towards me. I would love to know from your side if you think this could be because i am foreign and you just rather have friends who share your background, or there is something i am doing wrong. I never bring up religious, politics or any topic that someone could find offensive. I have supported their achievements, their kids achievements, gone to their concerts etc even if my own kids are never even acknowledged.I never brag or even tell them when i have achieved some milestone just in case it sounds like bragging, I've suffered with my mental health to the point that i thought i did not want to be here any longer, loneliness takes away my breath sometimes, due to this and in order to look after myself i am moving abroad, my kids are older and can come to see me, but, before i leave, i would so much appreciate your honest opinions, it's so difficult to see clearly when you are in a dark place, thank you,

@Beauy6 gosh, what horrible cows they are.

in answer to your question, someone's nationality would never be a deciding factor in friendship. You sound lovely, honestly

Beauy6I’m sorry that you’ve faced such disgusting behaviour. I hope you find some good friends in the future.
I also find some female friends unpleasant and have felt used in the past. I’m now very careful about who my friends are. This is after a lifetime of being used, sometimes to be dropped after the lifts, free use of my second home, and other help is no longer wanted. On reflection I realise that I didn’t get much out of the friendship.
Recently, I’ve made a new friend and enjoy her company and activities that we both are interested in. But I’m wary, such a shame.
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Thank you so much

Yes I’ve experienced the same op and feel the same about new friendships, I find it hard to trust them because I’m preempting how it will end. It really hurts when a friendship ends, more than a relationship because it feels extra embarrassing, like it shouldn’t happen in a friendship and you’re flawed if someone doesn’t want you as a friend. I’ve thought long and hard about what I’m doing wrong and just made myself feel worse, so limit your self reflection time. It probably isn’t you if you’re trying to work out what’s going on by posting on here.

Yes, female friendships may end, it can be sad, baffling, anger making. But when many marriages fail despite vows, it's not surprising that friendships too reach the end of the road and perhaps we should understand they can be transient. Healthy people evolve and often in different directions to those friends we once had such a strong rapport with. The kindest thing to do is to let them go and value the friendship you once had, put it in your memory box which one day will warm you.

Oh op, I know exactly what you mean. I had a very painful breakup with a friend of 35 years. It was a long time coming but the pain was deep. She turned into a cold bitter woman who enjoyed telling " her truth" to everyone. I miss the person I knew when I was 25...

I really only have one close woman friend. We love and support each other. I hope we remain friends for the remainder of our lives.

open.spotify.com/show/0BPD5Cd7O6pAIlCyP6m7CZ?si=6yGojBOsTFC5J5payGox_g

Great podcast on Friendship:

https://open.spotify.com/show/0BPD5Cd7O6pAIlCyP6m7CZ?si=6yGojBOsTFC5J5payGox_g

As I’ve grown older I’ve moved more and more away from female friends and more towards my sisters. I’m lucky to have them. They fill the female friend gap. We don’t see each other that much but video call as a group a couple of times a week.

female friends have drifted now kids have left school and there is no common bond snd regular chance to bump into one another

You know a good friend when they share in your joy rather than compare you to themselves. When we moved to a lovely house my oldest friend didn’t come and look at it for weeks despite living only a minute away. One of my other friends indulged me and got me excited for the move and talked about how lucky I was etc. It’s those things you remember.

Also, who gives you their time without expecting anything back? They’re the treasures worth keeping.

My sister doesn’t have any close friends but I’m lucky to have quite a lot. I tell her she has to be a friend to have a friend but she can’t be arsed to put much effort in so doesn’t have many friends. I put a lot of energy into my friendships. Always thinking about what they might need or how they will be feeling depending on where they are in their lives. Sometimes a message just asking how they are or to say I’m thinking about them goes a long way. It can really change someone’s day to know they’re in your thoughts.

OP I think you sound like a perfectly nice and normal woman, maybe there has just been an element of bad luck there. Unless that opinion you voiced was highly controversial and scandalous it shouldn't have affected your friendship. Most people understand that having different opinions on certain topics can be beneficial and add an interesting angle to discussions. Nobody wants to hang out in an echo chamber.

I wouldn't give up on female friendships, when they work they are so wonderful, but it can be a lot of work to get there.

I agree, OP.

I've always struggled with female friendships for similar reasons to those you describe.

Maybe lower your standards? I have Dh and sisters for deep proper support. Friends are for fun, interesting conversations sharing experiences and good times. Some drop in some drop out. I think some on here struggle to move on from the intense “ride or die” (hate that phrase cringe) friendship model of teens early twenties. Don’t think that translates well into later life.

Absolutely feeling the pain. Romantic hurt has subsided over time, it's still a little fluctuating seed but it doesn't inform who I am now.

Female friendship pain... I have two stories.

1. I was told by a friend that I was "a hard nut to crack" (I guess I've learned to be self protective) but with time we became very close friends. We talked about how much the friendship meant to each of us, our mums were even primed to be friends through us. Both her parents became seriously ill about 2 years ago, they're both surviving but of course it must be difficult. I supported her as much as I could, coaxing her for walks to talk things through and helping her to feel better, and supported. Then I became seriously ill. I very nearly bled to death in fact, and for a month of initial recovery was quite sure I would bleed again. It was the most difficult time and I'm still traumatised, but getting through it. I messaged the friend, who initially responded, saying she could come round, I messaged her back saying I needed sleep (I'd been up all night dying!!) but could I see her the next day. I didn't hear back from her for two months. I've tried for a year to meet up, talk through it, offer further support with her parents, and everytime it's been excuses. She began a relationship right when I got ill, and is always going away on holiday with him. She always tells me she's too busy/anxious about her parents to meet. It's been the worst discovery I've made.

1. In my twenties I woke up on a couch at a party being sexually assaulted by a man who was peripheral friends with our group. I stopped him as I became conscious , told him I was asleep and what was he doing. He said don't say that it sounds like I raped you. Let's go back to sleep. I pretended and ran away once he was asleep. I told close friends about it. I lived with a girl, we were having a party at our flat. She invited him, and said would that be ok. I was like, well, no. And she responded, well there's his story and then there's your story. We were outside a club when this happened and I had had a few drinks, but something exploded inside of me. I just walked away my mind paralysed by the shock of that feeling. I'd had no idea there was doubt to be had about my story. Years later she apologised (she's married to a very old friend of mine, I introduced them.) she said she had subsequently heard further rapey stories about the man, and was sorry she hadn't believed me. I pretend to (on the surface I do) like her, but wow that hurt is deep.

I'm shaking writing this all out. Couldn't say the retelling of boy hurts would evoke the same betrayal.

I would love you as a friend! Race/religion make absolutely no difference to me.

I think that our female friendships are modelled for us in childhood and we often 'sleepwalk' through life repeating this pattern with other women, which can lead to unsatisfactory relationships.

In my childhood my scapegoating mother taught me to over give to placate the other person which has led to a lifetime of one-sided relationships. Me give, give, giving, the other person taking and eventually taking me for granted. The friendship often starts well but over time it becomes clear that I'm not much of a priority to them which is as much my lack of self respect as their selfishness.

Through therapy I have learned that it's very important to monitor for reciprocation, not just assume you have it and have strong boundaries. As soon as someone becomes unreliable or selfish, deal with it! It was quite a revelation to me that, yes, you should expect kindness and respect in return.

My childhood was definitely a master and servant situation which has caused me no end of heartache when people have dismissed me when they no longer require my services, betrayed me, taken me for granted or said downright rude or unkind things to me, probably knowing I wouldn't fight back. Also I think you need things in common, including values. After a friendship breakup I have often thought I don't actually like that person!

There seem to be a lot of lovely female givers on this thread. I am wondering if you have been raised in similar situations?

Women are terrible friends to each other compared to men.

Well, my closest friends are more for ‘deep, proper support’ than my sisters (complex childhood which we’ve all dealt with differently), but in general, I agree with you. Lifelong friendships are not very common, situational or transitory friendships aren’t without value because they’re not forever, and friendship ‘tests’ like 3 am emergencies are not necessarily a good way of gauging anything. Sometimes you need to accept that someone has their own stuff going on that they’re not prepared to talk about, but which limits their ability to support you in certain circumstances.

This is quite sad really. I must be very lucky to still have my childhood best friend, there were a few years of not seeing each other (about 8) due to her moving away but we have been friends for almost 40 years and are very close. I also have another school friend that I see regularly and a college friend. I will admit I haven't made any further close friendships as an adult though, I found the school mums to be difficult to talk to so I just gave up and work colleagues are just that.

What an insane generalisation. And inaccurate. There have been studies suggesting as a contributing factor to the peak male suicide years the fact that male friends tend to get together to do things eg go to the football, play golf (shoulder to shoulder friendships), and if they can’t afford this due to time, small children or money, those friendships suffer, and men get isolated. Women are more likely to just meet for the express purpose of a catch-up or conversation (face to face friendships) without the need for an activity. Those friendships suffer less from lack of time/money.