Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 13

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

Who initiated the activity? My DH it turns out is very frustrated being asked to do stuff by me (despite not showing it). We have had a lot of recent (heart-breaking) conversations about why we cannot share tasks. Seems it’s mix of autonomy loss, feeling that a request is ultimately a power move on my part, frustration at being interrupted, feeling extra tired. It’s SHIT. How could I have married someone who never wants to collaborate with me, I have sailed past the red flags bunting.

Might your DH then be ashamed at being pulled up on hurting you? Alexithymia later means he can’t discuss it? All speculation on my part. But it’s very immature, juvenile and unpleasant behaviour and I hope you weren’t hurt 💐

Thank you, no I wasn't hurt it just makes me very on edge when he is like that. I'm sorry you aren't able to collaborate on tasks, it's really hard.

Interesting about the loss of autonomy, that could well be part of it. It was sort of a joint decision to get the decorations down but maybe it felt like a demand to him and he reacted accordingly. The alexithymia might also be part, I used to think it was gaslighting or minimising my reaction but it could well be that he felt shame.

If I can fund it I am going to try and find a good therapist in the new year, someone with some understanding of ND.

Fascinating insight by @FreshLaundry . I had never heard about this predictive capacity but it brings to light so many incomprehensible behaviours and reactions by my spouse that I was clueless to understand. DH regularly predicts my reactions in a negative way. He puts words in my mouth or ideas I supposedly think that are almost exclusively negative and not at all what I actually think or would say. And then He refuses to believe me when I tell him I never thought such a thing. He is convinced he knows better than me what I think. And this, coming from a normally brilliant man who is a successful medical consultant in private practice. WTF.

Yes, this is exactly what mine would do! He cannot stand me asking him to do anything! He has to be in charge. He cannot be the helper. Completely selfish childlike behavior as far as I am concerned. Whereas he has perfectly behaved adult behaviors with others. Impossible to work together in a concerted effort if he isn't the boss. So no collaboration or teamwork is possible. It is such a sad realization.... Why is this? Is it just a lack of emotional maturity or is it ND?

Mine is like this too @FreshLaundry
I simply cannot ask him to do anything.
Any task that requires collaboration is bond to be a disaster.

Tbf since I stopped expecting that collaboration, it has become much easier for me. But I think dh is getting surprised that actually I can do many things all in my own. Like buying a car Wo his input….
I think the idea that if I was asking fir his pov it wasn’t that I couldn’t do it, never quite crossed his mind,

I shall look this up DW and DS both have huge difficulty with prediction, both instinctively and cognitively.

The collaboration part was a late realisation in my part too! I work in design and my day is all about collaboration and fleshing out ideas, changing tack, coming full circle…it’s fuelled by uncertainly and requires a level of open mindedness. But I’ve recently come to see that DH just can’t comprehend that way of thinking. We’re renovating our house and - for example - I show him an idea, he likes it, decides that is what we are doing. Or, he hates it and the discussion is closed. It’s like he can’t extend his thinking beyond the exact options in front of him - I might show him e.g a kitchen and say ‘I don’t like this tiling but what do you think of these units’ he’ll respond with ‘god that’s hideous, look at the tiling’ . He can’t see individual elements, only the whole composition.
I imagine it a bit like a colour spectrum. Show me orange and green and I can see the shades of yellow that come in between and the red and blue at the far ends. DH can only perceive the orange and green - there are no other options.

The prediction thing is very interesting - will have a look. A huge source of frustration is that I will start to say something and he will just cut me off and finish the statement with something completely different, typically negative. It’s quite exhausting!

The book by the same author 'Autism as Context Blindness' looked good too. Do you think challenges picking things up through inference, non-verbal cues etc. plus difficulty updating mental models means something for in-group and out-group dynamics? Like you're 'one of us' when you're deeply embedded in the ways of the group? Which you potentially aren't if you're not following along and adapting?

Anyway, two people told me how easy I am to work with last week. I use exactly the same face, tone, process with them. But DH maintains what a massive diva I am, how fixed in my views. Literally suggesting a more straightforward process is me doing a power move?!

He cannot tolerate that there might be a 'better' way that's more efficient, more effective, etc. it's just my way or his way. He runs teams and I was wondering if he's like this with them or if he saves this particular quality for me only. It makes me so, so sad since I love collaborating on tasks. He avoids getting me involved if it's humanly possible 😔.

My ex could not collaborate either nor could he bear the 'assistant' role. So when we had babies he became really quite vile ... looking back it was inevitable. I had to stay longer than I wanted too because I could not trust him to care for the children safely and I feared he would have wanted shared custody. (Poor executive function and zero risk perception ... and I am not a neurotic parent.)
Anyway I'm free of all the nastiness and conflict now ... but I do have an auto immune condition ... so please take care of yourselves and leave as soon as you can.

Sometimes I wonder why I was attracted to my partners. None of them can meet my needs (which I’ve come to understand are completely reasonable). I wonder why we choose partners who can’t meet our needs or whether it’s just that it’s masked so well or we let a lot slip seeing the good in people at first? My current partner we have so much in common, interests, we are laid back, a bit immature and silly etc but he can not respond to any of my needs. If I’m having a bad day he will do nothing about it. My needs are unnecessary to him and I can’t make them go away. I need a much more attuned partner and I keep getting ones who aren’t. My response to myself is to just stop being so needy but it often makes me feel worse.

This is such an interesting thing to have noticed. People often do repeat patterns like this—it can be a kind of undoing of past mistakes. Or it can be an unconscious following of rules laid down (patterns observed) in childhood. But once you have brought it up to a conscious level maybe you can overturn or subvert the impulse to reject helpful/attuned/generous lovers in favour of these wounded or solipsistic ones.

I’ve never met one to reject one. I have some female friends who are lovely but I’ve not met a romantic one. I like many aspects of my current partner but as I grow emotionally I’m leaving him behind and I’m getting frustrated with him when it’s not his fault.

These books are excellent for identifying and breaking patterns:

Dr Nicole LePera Collection 2 Books Set (How to Be the Love You Seek & How To Do The Work)

This is also very good:

A Radical Awakening: Turn Pain Into Power, Embrace Your Truth, Live Free

I do feel like my current partner is a really
good person and when we met I was quite immature emotionally and I’ve grown a huge amount the past few years. Especially after having my little daughter. I am able to put her needs above my own, in fact my needs become making sure she is happy. He really struggles with this. It is not something I would have thought he would have. I wonder if kids is quite a revealer about people. Some people are just so rigid they can’t adapt to this massive change, its hard for everyone really.

It doesn’t matter who is at fault. You are not obligated to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I know. I’ve got so overwhelmed this week I’ve literally just said to him do you actually care about me at all, which was stupid. He does, I know he does because he does things for me but I just wanted a bloody hug, some contact not the shopping got. It’s all so disconnected. Shopping and doing means love but it’s such a distant way to show it.

But that is all part of their emotional unavailability. a@Rainbow03 , the disconnectedness. They aren't or can't connect as we want or need them to. At any rate, we really need to meet our own needs, not expect others to fulfill them.
As for why do we choose people ( consistently sometimes) who can't meet our needs? Well I think we were probably emotionally neglected as children and so we are used to not having our needs met. Emotionally unavailable people's behaviour seems familiar to us and we are attracted to what we know. And emotionally neglected people often find safe, caring, attentive partners to be stifling, suffocating or boring.

We learned to deny our emotional needs and be 'independent ', ie. without wants or needs from others . So we are naturally drawn to this kind of personality .

What’s the point in relationships if we can meet all our own needs, also things come up and the support of our partners is needed and visa versa isn’t it? I couldn’t have gotten through many of the things I’ve been through on my own (although I’ve tried and I’ve failed miserably trying to do it all alone). I’ve met strangers who have been invaluable as family are of no use emotionally.

I didn't mean to be goady @Rainbow03 about meeting our own needs. Yes we are human and need others for support and are enriched through good relationships, absolutely. However being codependent on others is not the solution. I believe as adults we should be able to meet our own basic needs to survive and be happy.

I see what you mean. I don’t think it’s co-dependant on my behalf. For example it’s like with my daughter whose behaviour is so so challenging. Rather than admit he can’t deal with it and support me he just disappears. I’d love to disappear sometimes. But I accept he can’t deal with it and I can much better, I would still like him to support me so I can support her. Instead I’m on my own and off he goes to do something he finds easier.

Ok but he can’t (ND) or won’t (self centered, fragile, lazy). You can’t make a sow’s ear into a silk purse and you need to stop kidding yourself that you can thrive or survive with this level of emotional neglect. Because whatever he says he wants: this is all he can offer.

I have a counsellor who is ND, married to a ND spouse and raising ND children - so my mirror. It does help.

Hmm… that’s a question I asked myself many times.

The reality, for me, is that if we separate, I’ll be in my own. I’m not going to meet someone else etc…
So I’ll have to find a way to meet those needs on my own anyway.
Is that any different than living with someone who can’t fulfil those needs?

My own personal conclusion is that it’s only neglect and hurtful if you expect them to have that role. If you don’t expect that, is that neglect? It certainly doesn’t feel hurtful to me now that I’ve dropped that expectation.

(Note: my situation is pretty unique as I’m close to housebound. I’m not going to socialise, meet people, have a life or a partner if I’m on my own. The situation will be very different for most people)

@Whataretalkingabout I'm going to pick up on this ... this is, I have come to believe, a partial truth.

Could not agree more about being codependent. But for all humans, healthiness involves relations with others and a sort of reasonable interaction and leaning on, giving as well as taking, reliance on others.

We are, at our deepest levels, a social, tribal animal and we need others to thrive. The dependence as a child is total and one grows up and grows apart and becomes more practically and emotionally independent. But total independence is not possible, and not healthy.

it's very difficult to delinate the concepts. Overdependence is a bad thing; even worse, perhaps, than under-dependence as it creates a power imbalance and is frankly asking for trouble. But there is a balance, and it's an ongoing process as we change and mature into adulthood, have adult lives and then become older. Healthy sense of self and healthy boundaries and, essentially, both emotionally giving and emotionally receiving are vital.

I wish I could explain it better.