Suspected ASD DH, not sure I can handle it anymore

[Itsonthetopshelf]

Been with DH 10 years, married for 5 and we have a small DC under 1. DH has always been quirky and quite selfish but I think since DC it’s all become a lot more apparent and his lack of empathy, particularly towards me, is pushing me to think about ending the marriage. I am 100% sure DH has undiagnosed ASD (and I think ADHD too, I know they are often linked) and so I feel that this is just the way he is and he will never change.

I’d love to know if anyone else has had children with diagnosed or undiagnosed ASD DH/DP and how this was for you - did things get better as DC got older?

also any experiences of separating with a very small child - the idea of a shared custody arrangement kills me and I do 99% of DC care, I don’t think overnight stays etc without me at this point would be appropriate or kind to DC. What arrangements did you have?

I have tried to keep this brief but there are endless things DH does that are just getting me to the end of my tether e.g obsessions with hobbies, collecting and hoarding expensive items, lack of understanding of anyone else’s experiences or feelings, lack of friends, strange social behaviour etc.

At this point the only thing keeping me in the marriage is not wanting to rip up our ‘nice’ life, lose our home and enter into a difficult custody arrangement.

I am in a similar situation. I’ve have one 8 year old from previous relationship and now a 2 year old with my ND partner. Anyone can change post children, even non ND people can turn out to be not so good parents. I’m having to have a major shift in my thought patterns and I’ve read an awful lot so that I can communicate with my partner more so in his language. In my case there are more positives to him than negatives. He’s a brilliant dad and he tries his absolute heart out to be what other people need him to be and I love him for that. He has major limitations thought which I’m having to accept as with any disability. Only you can know if there is enough for you to love. I would not hold on purely for fairy tale, can you love what’s in front of you.

Before you get angry at him though he isn’t doing anything on purpose. It doesn’t mean you have to stay though.

@HoppingPavlova

I don't think it's a deliberate blindfold, you know him and you know his traits. They may be as clear as dog balls on a canary to you, however I don't know any woman who would willingly marry and have children and then divorce on purpose, nobody plans that, no matter how much of a catch I'm sure your son is.

I think it's less a case of deliberately being blindfolding ones self and just having never experienced anything like it before, so being unable to recognise it for exactly what it is.

I would have never, ever had a child with my ex husband if I'd have had full sight of the range of behaviours and tendencies that unfolded, not for the nicest semi detatched in *insert your choice of naice surburban postcode. And in reality, one does not get to keep the house, those days are gone.

It's not deliberate, they don't have a plan to divorce him, it's the inability to conceive that someone's brain could work so differently to everyone you've ever met before, yet sometimes be able to pull it out of the bag perfectly well. It makes you think that it's you, that you're making it up, and it's not something anyone would do had they hindsight, I can assure you, so while it might seem like there are women circling your son like sharks waiting to pounce, I feel for them for they know not what they do.

I have to say I have developed much more empathy for my partner since having a child go through the same. She absolutely has empathy and she isn’t selfish but she is struggling big time to make sense of the world. I have this need to protect her and I also have this need to protect him because I know internally he absolutely loves us and has empathy and is flapping frantically underneath like a swan when looking cool on the surface. Perhaps I’m a bit silly and will end up suffering for this.

@Itsonthetopshelf I hope my post does not get lost amongst the others as I can really relate to you.

DH and I have been together for almost 20 years and before DC we were solid. Along came our DC and our world was tipped upside down. DH was utterly useless and I grew resentful. We also had outside stress in our DC first year and the stress almost broke me. DH’s life barely changed. I can not describe what an incompetent and selfish cock womble he was; I felt like I hated him at the time, but we got through it.

When our DC started school, they were promptly diagnosed with ASD and it dawned on me that DH was very likely also living with ASD. He refused to go for assessment until I told him, that he was putting our relationship at risk. DH was also diagnosed and everything makes sense, but it is not a fix for the issues that are still omnipresent in our relationship.

Our DC are teens now and it is extremely hard all round to live in a household with other people who have such conflicting needs. I am not the person I used to be and the trauma of fighting for support for our DC, the trauma DH put me through in the early years and the relentless stress of meeting everyone else needs other than mine is very real. DH does not understand it.

But, we also have good times and DH does try). I understand that I need to be more understanding and tolerant myself (which I mostly fail at because of the immense stress). But I work on myself too.

It would be silly to ignore the fact that living with anyone with ASD, whether that is a DH or a DC or a sibling, does negatively impact on other people in some way. You have to make the right decision for you and your DC, but make it an educated one. You should also understand that as ASD is genetic,‘there’s a possibility that your DC may also be ND.

I wish you luck OP, it’s a situation nobody can understand unless they live it.

"IME, the NT/ND relationships that work out are where the ND person has some insight into how ND affects them and so the NT and ND person can work together to make the relationship thrive. However, where the ND person has no real insight you will be continually hitting your head against a brick wall and over time you will lose yourself, ime."

There is this basic assumption here that the person with the ND is the one who needs to change.

My parents' marriage has lasted over 50 years because my NT parent has adapted and enabled my ND parent. It doesn't have to always been the ND partner who is "wrong".

What about the NT person having insight into how their unpredictability, their social needs, their untidiness, their desire to keep mixing things up and changing perfectly good routines can impact their ND partner?

It's not easy either way, but this basic assumption that NT is the "correct" way (rather than just the standard and default) is quite corrosive. It leads to frustration and limited empathy happens in both directions.

All of which doesn't mean that OP and her husband have to stay married if it has died for her. But I think giving him the chance to understand that marriage counselling is crunch time might be fair.

"It would be silly to ignore the fact that living with anyone with ASD, whether that is a DH or a DC or a sibling, does negatively impact on other people in some way."

I have autistic sibs, father and son. My father was kind but remote, but my very warm and loving mother compensated fantastically. My siblings and my son enhance my life and do not negatively impact me in any way.

@Supportthatway and @Mitherations Neither of you think a diagnosis is worth having? So no child with ASD should be getting a diagnosis because it's not worth anything? That's the impression you are giving with your comments. More so because a child will understand less than an adult.

Just because you know someone who has ASD doesn't mean you know anything about what it is like living with ASD. Women especially don't get the diagnosis until much later and it makes a huge difference to understanding why. Men can mask too. OP in this case was very aware of her OHs traits and now it's a problem. Having child and being solely responsible for earning and providing for that child and partner is a huge life change.

@FoxtrotOscarKindaDay I was referring to my ex husband who had no diagnoisis and a new one wouldn't have made any difference to whether or not I'd have been willing to remain in a marriage with him. Not saying that diagnosis should be scrapped for all.

Had he had a diagnosis when we met I might have been able to make an informed decision. As @NameChangerNewbie said you really can't understand it unless you have lived it, and yes that goes for both sides.

Happened to listen to this yesterday

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0gkf2p5?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

that ADHD story on bbc radio ?4

however I don't know any woman who would willingly marry and have children and then divorce on purpose, nobody plans that, no matter how much of a catch I'm sure your son is

@Mitherations What a sheltered life you lead. Nothing to do with my son, but I’ve met lots over the years who have openly confessed this woman to woman. Usually when going for a surgeon, they seemed to be favoured (fyi-my child is not a surgeon, I’m talking about experiences in my own work/social life over the years).

@BulletproofHat My perspective comes from myself as a parent to 3 ND children and a DH. I love them all dearly, but I will not deny nor apologise for being honest about how hard it is at times. There’s a vast amount of information on the stressors involved in raising a disabled child; it is NOT the fault of the child or person with the disability, but there is no denying it IS hard on parents and caregivers. To dismiss this, would frankly be irresponsible. (I’m not referring to you in particular, I am talking in broad terms as a society).

This is reflected in the SEN boards on here.

@HoppingPavlova My life hasn't been sheltered but I I tend to choose my friends wisely and try to surround myself with good people. Wouldn't ever end up in a "woman to woman" chat with one to find out.

OP I could have written your exact post and stuck in the same situation. DH is almost certainly undiagnosed but very high achieving ASD (career wise) and thus absolutely refuses to acknowledge or consider that he might be neurodivergent. The red flags are also all over his family with at least one other sibling 100% autistic but never been diagnosed, struggling in various areas of life but nobody dares to bring up the topic.

The problem is that if you look at the bigger picture, there's no guarantee that you will end up with the mythical perfect DH that pulls his weight and supports you with the kids. Men can be arseholes on all levels, including neurotypical ones. However much your current life sucks, it will only be temporary until the kids are older. If you've been together for so long already you clearly have a connection and is that worth throwing away for a few temporary years of chaos?

The additional problem is that if he has ASD, he's not going to be able to handle split custody. There will be a genuine risk of the children being neglected, or worse, coming to harm if he had to be their primary caretaker for several days. I came to the conclusion that it's in DD's best interests if I live with her for at least 90% of the time. Left to his own devices, DH is not capable of planning and cooking healthy meals for himself, let alone a small child. He often doesn't wake up at night if she cries or just ignores it and keeps on sleeping. He cannot remember all the things she needs for nursery and will often forget a jacket, hat, boots, water bottle, snack box or something else.

Ironically he never drops the ball with his work because it's related to his special interest. He is extremely successful financially but entirely hopeless with everyday tasks and life admin. He works close to his parents home and his mum cooks for him every day. If she's away on holiday then he will just go the entire day without eating. Looking at my MIL I realised that she dedicated her life to her children and compensated for all the places they had weaknesses in. I'm also suspicious whether FIL had some sort of ND because he was never around much but did provide financially.

So the current situation is that I've accepted DH as a second child. He didn't choose to be born autistic and it's unfair to demonise him for ASD symptoms. We've had so many arguments that go around in circles and I realise he's not malicious but just like you said, is genuinely incapable of feeling empathy. His actions are only driven by what he feels at the present moment, very similar to a child. He also teases or winds DD up all the time, very similar to a sibling.

Our family life is now more tolerable after I decided to lower all expectations. I we split up, then I would be a lone parent anyway. Or I can accept the role of being a married lone parent and still have a tiny safety net of another adult in the house. DH basically gets rules similar to a teenage kid. He needs to be home at a certain time for dinner, he has a few predictable chores in the house and I make provisions for his sensory issues. He's allowed to engage in self-regulating or stimming behaviours which usually involves obsessively checking at his phone, doing sports or lying in bed in a dark room.

It's not ideal atm but I'm hoping that things will become easier, at least for me, once DD is older. As I mentioned the alternative would be leaving her to his care in split custody and I'm honestly more worried about that.

So much identification with the poster below and others. The fallout from split and effect on kids has been far worse than anything I could have ever imagined.

We are talking about adults on this thread and not children. Specifically, I was talking about not relying on a diagnosis to lead to change in the partner that will improve the relationship dynamic. I think that context was clear.

@BulletproofHat Successful relationships are about being able to move toward each other, yes. To understand and accommodate each other, yes. Healthy relationships are reciprocal and mutual, yes. This should be the norm for all relationships.

You can have one-sided relationships were one partner does all the accommodating and sacrificing, but I wouldn't recommend it. And I know from the accounts of many NT partners who live like this, that this often comes at an enormous cost to themselves.

There are all sorts of reasons why the balance in relationships change, long term illness, stress, redundancy, etc. Successful relationships are successful because often the one with more of the balance wants to accept the limitations and figure out ways to make it work, maybe work on their partners strengths. But they have to want to. You never know you could walk out of one relationship into another perfect one and serious illness hits this partner.

Those threads are appalling.

IME, the NT/ND relationships that work out are where the ND person has some insight into how ND affects them and so the NT and ND person can work together to make the relationship thrive. However, where the ND person has no real insight you will be continually hitting your head against a brick wall and over time you will lose yourself, ime.

An incredible lack of insight here into the fact that for relationships to function both people need to be aware of how their behaviour impacts the other person. NT people's behaviour is often incomprehensible, illogical, uncaring, demanding, selfish and unempathetic from an ND perspective.

You phrase this as though NT preferences and behaviour is "correct" and ND people need to somehow modify themselves to conform to NT preferences (as they have to all day every single day anyway, but clearly this isn't enough for you and you wouldn't meet your partner half way: based on this comment you seem to have so little "insight" that it didn't even occur to you that your behaviour was also negatively affecting them and that you should make any changes.

An acquaintance was left by her husband when they had a 10 and 8 year old. She’d been diagnosed with ADHD after the birth of the younger. He was no longer able to cope with her behaviour, she struggled very badly to accept that and felt abandoned. I had empathy for both sides.

OP the first couple of years with children are a very difficult time for most people. IMO this isn't the time to make any enormous and irrevokable life-changing decisions.

Ironically with you saying he lacks empathy and communication skills, you don't seem to be communicating effectively with him yourself. Someone communicating in a different way to you doesn't make your way correct and theirs wrong. It sounds like therapy is the first step, working together on improvements with compromises on BOTH sides to accommodate the preferences of the other, and then you can reevaluate once your child is older. With a baby you cannot really know how things will work out, it is still very early days and most people find it gruelling.

But you can still move towards you partner in those situations. By recognising how your partner is standing by you and providing support. That is still a reciprocal relationship. Being married to someone who cannot move towards you in that situation and cannot even notice that you are doing anything at all for them let alone acknowledging it, let alone reciprocating with loving you for what you are doing for them, is a different kettle of fish entirely.

I personally don't think staying in a relationship because the next one might be worse is a good reason to stay in a relationship. A relationship is not a job. You don't need to be in one, even if you don't like it.

Most of the people in that thread have armchair diagnosed their partners with autism citing unpleasant character traits in their partners that have nothing whatsoever to do with autism. It's astonishing that Mumsnet let it stand, those threads are toxic and full of false information/ insinuations about autism that have no basis in reality and contradict all research about it, just bitter people looking for something to blame for their failed relationships.

If you want to find a healthy way forward OP - whether that ends in separation or a better relationship between you - those "support" threads are not the place to find it.

Yes you could interpret it like this, or you could read text within its context for a more accurate understanding.

OP is talking about someone with lack of empathy. If someone has such a lack of empathy that they cannot even understand that their behaviour is causing a problem, then you will never get anywhere. It doesn't matter how hard you try to understand them (and every NT partner I know with a ND partner spends vast amounts of time and energy trying to understand their partner, support their partner and find the 'right' way to communicate with them), you will never get anywhere. And one day you will realise that in all the years you have spent expanding vast energy on understanding them, and trying to find a way to work with them co-operatively, they have never once spent as much as one minute trying to understand things from your perspective. It will never have even occurred to them to even try. You can't work with someone like that to repair a relationship.

Its a pretty desperate smear attempt to claim that my saying that you can't make a relationship work with someone who has no capacity to understand how their behaviour is affecting their partner, is somehow an unempathetic or prejudiced thing to say. Its just bloody obvious.

And its really telling that when I explicitly write this so the NT and ND person can work together to make the relationship thrive that there are posters trying to claim this means I am saying the ND person needs to do all the work and change but not the NT person. I'm pretty explicitly saying the opposite here.