Would a counsellor see this as a safeguarding issue?

[Tulip2478]

Iv posted several times before over the years about behavior that I find unacceptable from my H, including possible financial control and being inappropriate sexually while I have been asleep.
Taking advice from posters on here I previously contacted womens aid and have made a resolve to try and change my life for the better. Unfortunately, I am not in a position financially or emotionally to just up and leave my marriage.
I have referred myself for counselling as my depression and panic attacks have increased markedly over the past couple of months. I have one good friend who I confided in who encouraged this but it got me thinking. if I am open and honest fully about what is hurting me right now, (which is things from my childhood and my husbands disrespectful and jokey attitude to things he has done), I am worried a counsellor might see this is a safeguard issue because we have children in the house. This was also the reaction of many posters on here.

There is no physical violence and my children are well looked after and happy, with everything they need given to them. It is more how I feel about the relationship that is the problem. Does anyone here have any idea on the policies regarding situations like this, where the children aren't in immediate danger but there may be elements of abuse? I'm terrified of saying the wrong things and making things worse.

I don’t really know for sure but often those abusive don’t just stick to one person in the family and will eventually put children down and be physical with them so I guess it is a risk to them staying

ive left dv and know it’s hard but why financially aren’t you able to leave? There is support out there for you financially and emotionally through dv charities that will help you and you’d be able to claim money in your own right, they will help you with housing and keep you safe. Those who abuse others don’t stay with the same tactics, and abuse can ramp up more extreme. Again I know it’s not easy but I’d really urge you to get out whilst you can, sending love

@Mercury2702 Sorry you had to go through all that. There is no physical violence, or violence at all really. Its a bit of a grey area really.

I say financially because I have no real money or savings. And i wouldn't have a clue where to start. I wouldn't really need housing to keep me safe because I'm not in any physical danger so don't think I would qualify. It's just H has showed some controlling behaviours in the past, or that I believe to be about control.

It's not a grey area OP. Sex without consent is rape and coercive control is against the law too.

I know that. I am just worried if I accidentally mention anything H's behaviour especially what he has said and sone sexually, when I'm in a vulnerable and emotional state talking to someone professional, that it will flag up as a safeguarding issue because I have children. Or am I overreacting?

Not overreacting. If this has happened over a period of time chances are your perspective has become skewed and things are far worse than you recognise. A toxic relationship will affect the children even if abuse is not directed at them specifically. Women's Aid can help you protect your children which is the priority.

Apart from the sexual violence towards you as you sleep, you mean?

@NeverDropYourMooncup Well yes if you class that as physical. Although this hasn't happened in well over a year. Do you think this would be flagged up as a safeguarding issue? There are many things I am struggling with emotionally including aspects of my marriage and I feel I need to talk to somebody. I can't take medication because it makes me feel worse.

@LIZS They did point me to a telephone number in my area. They really can't do anymore unless I make a decision to up and leave, which I am really struggling with doing, wh8cg is why I am seeing a counsellor to try and be strong to do so.

IME, if a counsellor or anyone that has had the training sees or hears about a safeguarding issue - they are duty bound to report it.

Sounds like you are making excuses for him. Maybe you should consider leaving for their sake. If you are concerned you will be reported for safe guarding then you should consider why this is

I don't know. But your children are currently living with a sex offender so maybe.

I'm not making excuses for him, I am seeking counselling to help me leave.

You will get most from counselling if you are as honest as possible. If a safeguarding concern were reported it would be in their best interest. I know it's hard. I've been there having both had counselling while in an abusive relationship & having left. I've also had to report concerns re my ex in relation to my DD. Unfortunately it has to be quite serious before social services do anything

@backawayfatty1 Thanks for your reply. I don't have any concerns regarding my children and H. Just need to get stronger. My H actually made a joke yesterday about me being asleep while the children were out the house, (which is rare that we get time together) and he joked that he should have taken advantage of me. I'm sure it was a totally innocent joke but ofc it struck a nerve so I said well you used to do that when I was asleep, and he just said 'I know' and looked coldly away from me. It's things like this that mess with my head because I feel guilty thinking bad of him and talking against him. I don't trust my own judgement or realise when I'm being manipulated because of reasons in my childhood, hence why I feel I need to talk to a counsellor.

I'm sure it was a totally innocent joke

It wasn't. Not even a bit. It was meant to take you back to the trauma of him sexually assaulting you in your sleep. Which it did.

And no, I don't think you are able to assess risk to the children because you can't assess risk to yourself right now. You are pretending he is safer than he is so that you can stay. Because you can't leave yet. Minimising is very dangerous.

If you are honest, when you ask if a professional would assess it as a safeguarding risk, are you thinking "...and then I would have to leave immediately" or "...so I can't have counselling in case the counsellor sees it"? If it's the second, that is very very wrong.

I'm training to be a Counsellor and we have been taught that we are obliged to break confidentiality if a child is being abused or is at risk of abuse , if the client admits they are going to hurt someone, or if illegal activity has taken place. Your situation is a grey area as it isn't clear cut as your children haven't been harmed and don't appear to be at risk of being harmed so I'm not totally sure but I would think that the inappropriate sexual stuff while you are sleeping would be more of a concern to a counsellor on whether or not to report it.

I work in this area and OP, I think those conversations are so important, it sounds like you do need someone to speak with. If it were me I would take some action if I was told this. However, that would be a social care referral and there would be some work to do with you to ensure you were safe and your family were safe as part of this. I’m not sure re your kids what would actually happen after a referral.
You said you want to go to therapy because you want to be helped to leave.. isn’t this sort of referral the thing you need to help you leave in the first place? The allegations you describe are very serious, yet you defend the person doing this and say they are safe. Be very mindful about how you are interpreting and viewing this. You describe some very serious and traumatic events. If you are at risk of any sort of harm from another person in the house your children live in, that is also harmful to them in many other indirect ways. It doesn’t need to be directly targeting them. They will know something is going on and they are learning from you about what are or are not acceptable ways to be treated or to treat others. Sometimes a person with parental responsibility unable to see risk for what it is can be the safeguarding concern in itself.

Please get help OP, don’t be worried or afraid to say what has really happened, the person you work with will be reporting things only where there is good reason, and through your sessions you would also come to view this in the same way.

OP there is counselling available specifically for those who have suffered domestic abuse. You could contact your local domestic abuse organisation and ask if they can recommend any counsellors. You could also try BACP.

From what you say, he's not physically abusive and is not being sexually inappropriate in front of the children, so I'm not sure why you're concerned.

I think therapy sounds like a perfect idea and a great step forward. Don't forget that you can contact your local domestic abuse organisation for advice and support at any time.

@MrsTerryPratchett I wasn't sure of the joke and silence was him being remorseful, or as you said a way to put me on edge.
No of course I wouldn't hide anything in case it has to go further, not when it comes to my kids. I just want to be prepared. I know we are not in any physical danger, I just need the emotional strength to leave and to help with the guilt.

You’re a victim of sexual and financial abuse in the home. Even if your children don’t see it, they will be aware of some thing. Children in this situation are no longer said to be witness domestic abuse, they’re called victims of domestic abuse to recognise the life long negative impact living in an abusive home as a child will have on them.

@Ninananana Thanks for your reply and your honesty. I understand it may be a grey area as there is no harm being done to the children, but can see where you are coming from.
I'm not defending him I am just saying that there has never been any physical abuse, and the inappropriate things in my sleep aren't happening now they were in the past.
Sorry I'm being stupid, not sure what you mean with this referral being the thing I need first?

this isn’t strictly true ( I’m a therapist).

It’s more likely of you see someone in the nhs or statutory services or a charity who uses a lot of volunteer placement students/trainees.

if you see someone privately and only disclose abuse against yourself and not the children it’s a lot less likely.

Psychologist here although no longer working directly in MH services.

Nobody will be able to tell you for certain, but as a former supervisor of counsellors and assistant psychologists, I can offer this as a framework that counsellors must work to in services. Private practice may be a different thing, but I'm assuming you're looking at accessing counselling through an organisation here.

Safeguarding issues, or potential safeguarding concerns, in most cases, should be discussed openly with an adult client. Counsellors should not go and report something to social care without first discussing it with you in most circumstances, unless they had reason to believe there was immediate danger and you were refusing to cooperate - then they may have to override your wishes to disclose something to safeguard a child or vulnerable adult.

When considering safeguarding, the least restrictive option must be chosen and mental health professionals also need to consider the wider implications of making a report for the safety of the victim and their children in DV scenarios. We also have to assess if making a report where there is currently no immediate risk might actually increase risk because involving social services would alert an abuser who is attempting to isolate their victim that they are accessing services and possibly planning to leave - these situations are not always black and white. It is very likely that a counsellor will need to discuss your situation in supervision, but there should be something in the counselling agreement that covers that.

Based on the information given, your children are not in any immediate danger, they have not been seriously harmed or are likely to be seriously harmed by your husband, so there would be no grounds for overriding your consent and it is very likely it would be low on social care's priority list.

That said, a counsellor is likely to have to do a risk assessment with you that we call a DASH to gain further information about any risks to you and/or your children. They may encourage you to access support and input from other organisations or signpost or refer you directly with your consent. Women are often more at risk when they start making plans to leave, and just after they leave, and any counselling through NHS or charities will be time limited so I would strongly suggest accessing other support in addition so that you are not completely without it after counselling.

I hope that helps provide some reassurance and some sense of what to expect.

Thanks for the replies. I don't want to sound dramatic, just wanted a bit of guidance and have got good advice from here before.
I understand it may be a grey area as there is no abuse directed at my children or any physical violence. But i feel like I can't get past the way I have and am being treated and I'm worried my unhappiness will rub off on the children. Its not about me wanting to hide anything, I know if I need help I need to be competeiy transparent as I have on here before, it's just about being prepared in case something has to go further. Iv been looking up private counsellors as I think the NHS has a long waiting list and only offers things like CBT for a few sessions.