Can someone ever learn to communicate better?

[Bee3456]

Ive been in a relationship for 2.5 years with a guy. When I met him we had both just got divorced, we both have nor want kids, I’m 42, he’s 52.

From the beginning it was obvious he struggled to communicate, he would literally shut down and stare into space if anything emotional was discussed. He was the first to say he loved me and has been very loving and caring up till a few months ago

The lack of communication has got worse, and the blaming for absolutely everything started. If I burn my hand on the oven, he won’t ask how I am, just that I should be looking at what I’m doing. I’m constantly reminded that I haven’t put something back properly, put the tea towel how he wants it, made his coffee using all the correct steps or put the pans back in the cupboard at the correct angle.

I tripped and fell down the bottom few stairs today, injuring my ankle. He just turned his head and told me I should be more careful, no rushing over to see if I’m okay, no concern shown whatsoever.

I told him I felt so unloved today. This was via text as he’s told me he can not discuss emotions unless it’s via text from a different room. He replied and said he feels so sad about work issues. No sadness, apologies or discussion.

I literally feel unwanted. He says if I don’t know he loves me then there’s nothing he can do. His ex wife is an alcoholic, and for the last 3 years of their marriage they didn’t speak (I can’t absolutely believe that)

He will refuse to talk and 100% will not consider counselling.

Im about to accept there is no future here, even though I desperately want there to be, but before I do I want to see if anyone has any suggestions of how I can get him to communicate- or even if it possible for someone like this to change.

Thankyou so much for all your advice. It’s been really helpful and made me see that he is probably incapable of changing who he is.

In terms of him being narcissistic, it doesn’t really fit with him as his primary concern is other people when we are out, so I shouldn’t talk to loud, draw any attention to ourselves because he is incredibly shy and does not like attention. He struggles with even the most basic of conversations and will often ask me for advice of what to say.

i have always thought that autism or Asperger’s is likely to fit, and he had a very neglected and deprived childhood where there was not one adult who had his best interests at heart/truly cared for him. As a result he has no contact with any family member.

This morning, he knows I may have turned a corner (I’m away working) as he’s text me a picture of what he’s just ordered for me - something practical. He often behaves like this when he knows I’m upset but rather than discuss it, he’ll have something delivered for me, not in way of apology but to show he’s thinking about me.

Im really so tired of him now. He’s a lost cause I think and doesn’t want to change, or doesn’t know how to. But he’ll drag me down for the rest of my life, showing me no empathy or care when I’m unwell, always having to argue the point over the smallest of details - if I say I popped to Sainsbury’s today and they had an offer on X he will even argue about that , how the offer has finished or I’ve read it wrong. He makes me doubt my own mind over so many things with his constant questioning of anything I say, it feels like he has to disagree or argue with anything I say, he can’t listen or god forbid agree.

I know he’s going to turn this on me when I do leave, how I’ve not supported him, he’ll do his best to change, can we text from separate rooms when talking about emotion (but never will) but I’m so fucking tired of the whole thing.

He can not meet my needs so I have to accept this will just get worse and no amount of presents or skirting round the issue will resolve it

re your comment:

"It’s been really helpful and made me see that he is probably incapable of changing who he is".

There is no probably about it. Hoping/wanting/expecting/wishing that someone else will change their behaviour is impossible. Its hard enough for a person to even change one aspect of their own behaviour.

This all stems back to his neglectful/abusive childhood and BTW nothing you write re him at all indicates he being on an autistic spectrum. He stopped growing emotionally at around the age of six and dealing with him is perhaps like dealing with a child of around this age.

He was also never ready to enter into a relationship because he had just got divorced; he jumping from one relationship into another was never a good idea nor was it a good idea to involve yourself in his life as you have all too clearly now seen. You will also need to block him from being able to contact you. Your boundaries, already perhaps skewed by poor relationships and or previous abuse, have been further got at by this man now. Do not enter into another relationship until your own boundaries are a lot higher than they are now.

I also think you've gone from one abusive relationship into another one; a not uncommon scenario. Be on your own; its better than being this badly accompanied.

I would look into enrolling yourself onto the Freedom Programme and suggest you do this in person ideally or at least online.

Abuse is not about communication or a perceived lack of, its about power and control.

I had been separated from my husband for two years when I met this guy, and for that two years been single. During the two years I had extensive counselling to understand why I would accept such behaviour and to build my self worth.

when I met him, he raised the bar for me - always reliable, following through with things he said, actually behaved in a way that showed he cared for me. He knows I have a fear of my house being secure and he worked out with me what would put my mind at rest, fitted new locks and other security.

So on the face of things, someone who appeared to care very deeply for me.

The effort taken to behave like this has probably been too much for him so has reverted to his comfort zone.

I can safely say I will not have another relationship for the foreseeable future. For the two years I was single, I built my confidence and actually really enjoyed life. I have my own place and can make it my own again. I really have no desire for a relationship because it always seems to end like this.

I can understand why you got together with him, so don’t be hard on yourself about that. And now you’ve realised he’s not who he said he was and want to separate. So the counselling you had was helpful for you.

OP, may I ask when he started changing his behaviour? You mention some really eye popping behaviour like not accepting talking about feelings unless in another room? Usually none can keep a facade longer than 3 months.
While you were at this relationship, did you continue counseling? What was your psychotherapist’s opinion on this?
Also, during counseling what was the cause you identified as the source of you accepting this behaviour from your ex?

I'd wonder about covert narcissism OP, with the traumatic childhood as a cause. Could also be ASD and what you're seeing is a very practical nature and someone who just can't put themselves in your shoes. Could even be both as people with ASD are at increased risk of developing personality disorders.

Whatever the case he's going to really struggle to change who he is and it's not working for you so there's no reason to stay. It really doesn't matter if he turns this on you when he leaves (although never being to blame for anything is typical with narcissists), just say you're sorry it didn't work out and wish him well and then if necessary block him so you can move on.

I would also recommend no contact.

if a narc then there is no hope to change. If something else then could change with intensive counselling but will take considerable amount of time.

In either case the diagnosis doesn’t matter. No matter what it could be - and we are not psychotherapists to form an edicated opinion - the point is that the OP is unhappy and should take the very painful decision to end it.

It was probably a few months in, when he appeared to ‘shut down’ when there was anything approaching a disagreement or me asking for him to show more care towards me. He would stare into space, sometimes for a couple of hours, completely expressionless and silent. I would eventually leave the house because I couldn’t cope with him and he would then text and say ‘sorry I just can’t talk, please come back’

The requirement for total control down to where I place the pegs on his clothes, how I hang them up, has only started (coincidentally!) since I rented my place and we properly live together.

Im sometimes not sure it’s strictly about power, but maybe controlling everything makes him feel safe - it’s really irrelevant things like having to point out things I may trip over if walking, there’s a car coming, even how I stroke the dog which he tried to teach me some time ago.

The cause of my own issues is upbringing, and to do with my own extremely controlling and overbearing father so I have a desire to comply or please

Yes someone can change but they have to really work at it with a lot of therapy or similar. He is not in that place by the sound of it. I think you need to move on, sorry :(

Ok. There you go then. You have your answer. Seems that there is more healing to do before you move to your next relationship.
Normally, If you had healed, you would have recognised the pattern/abnormal behaviour and left him at 3-6 months the longest.

Take the big step to leave him. It’s extremely difficult, I know, you may need counselling to be able to do this.

Good luck. I know it’s extremely painful. It felt painful for me and it was only 4 months relationship. It takes a lot of strength becasue I understand you love him a lot. You see, the issue with highly empathetic people is that we recognise bad behaviour but we can also feel/we know where it comes from. Which kind of leads us to codependency. One thing that we need to understnad though is that there is no excuse for bad behaviour. We must remember that for every person who turned out a narc there are 10 who didn’t go down that path. For every autostic person who behaves badly there are 100 who don’t.

Trauma is not an excuse for bad behaviour and it is not down to us to resolve. We can’t even If we wanted to.

He tried to teach you how to stroke a dog? This sounds bonkers op and very very dull. You do not need a reason to end things. You can just say no thank you this is not working for me

"The cause of my own issues is upbringing, and to do with my own extremely controlling and overbearing father so I have a desire to comply or please"

You were therefore an ideal foil therefore for someone like this individual to get his claws into. I think he targeted you deliberately.

Be on your own; its far better than being this badly accompanied.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents and yours taught you an awful lot of damaging lessons. Would urge you to keep up the therapy for yourself, particularly with regards to your people pleasing tendencies because that indeed arises from wanting to please or otherwise placate a difficult/toxic/abusive parent. Your people pleasing tendencies are a issue that needs further addressing in therapy.

As Christl78 writes there is indeed more healing for you to do.

"when I met him, he raised the bar for me - always reliable, following through with things he said, actually behaved in a way that showed he cared for me. He knows I have a fear of my house being secure and he worked out with me what would put my mind at rest, fitted new locks and other security"

Your bar was sub level and he further exploited that.

And this is not as nice as it appears to be either. I would read more about and around future faking. You as an adult were and remain more than capable of finding someone to fix new locks and or fitting these so for he to do this shows in his head how "incapable" you are. You probably were happy with how secure your property was before he came into your life too.

I think most people have the capacity to change their behaviour if they recognise they have a problem and are motivated to change. You have been given lots of feedback. In my personal opinion, there isn't much information to go on. He may have underlying abusive tendency and/or stunted emotional development due his own trauma. The thing is this isn't your problem to resolve or fix. I think you need to consider why you choosing to stay in relationship with someone is unemotionally available. I think therapy can help you explore your own attachment styles.

Agree. I love your username btw.

OP this man is clearly suffering from some serious personality disorder, and highly likely to be narcissistic personality disorder. I'm going on the information you've provided here. Also I'd like to ask again - is his ex truly an alcoholic or is that what he's told you? Do you know her independently of him?

Narcissists don't necessarily love or seek attention. Covert narcissists exist too. Everything else you've said fits with NPD.

• Unstable childhood
• Mask slip - IE perfect partner at first then once he'd secured you, turns into a nightmare
• Extremely controlling behaviour
• Gaslighting - You've said he makes you feel like you're going mad Love bombing - perfect partner facade initially Deeply insecure - no confidence, asks you what to say Playing the victim - sob story re ex (likely made up), abusive childhood, lack of confidence to excuse controlling behaviour Won't allow you to leave the relationship.

Honestly with every update he sounds like he's got NPD. Look into it and start asking questions about his ex. And do the freedom programme. Good luck 🤞🏼

Your responses on here seem insightful, OP. You get what is really going on. Being with someone like this is lonelier than being alone. Break up with him and open up to the possibility of being with someone new when you're ready. Choose someone kind - you deserve it xx

He may be on the spectrum. I would leave. It won't get better. It is who he is.

Thanks for all your replies. He’s going through a very difficult time with a personal issue that came up unexpectedly last week - this has taken him away from home and will do for a couple of weeks

Rather than lean on me for support or even discuss it, he’s barely spoken to me and has taken to drinking even more than he already does with friends on nights out.

Think that’s shows you the value he has in me. But it does mean I have a few weeks breathing space now where I get everything in place, he can see the shift in me as yesterday he text asking if he can treat me to a luxurious holiday somewhere (as always, the solution is spending lots of money rather than dealing with the issues…)

Ive said I’d prefer not to and to get on with his things he needs to sort out and we can have a chat when he gets back.

Bloody excruciating but you’re right - he is incapable of change, as am I, to the extent I’d need to in order to accept this relationship as enough for me. So that’s that I guess.

He’s also so fucking dismissive and disrespectful to me when I ask a question, one word answers and it’ll be something really normal like ‘did you manage to go to x for lunch today then like you said’ he’ll just reply yes. I may then say oh I’m glad you’re managing to get some decent food and he’ll reply something like ‘why wouldn’t I?’

It’s just so dismissive and rude that it’s cleared my eyes to be able to see he has absolutely zero respect or care for me, yet thinks spending a few grand on a holiday with me will make up for it (not that he ever links it to making anything up as when mentioned to him that he’s being really rude he’ll mention that it’s difficult for everyone at the moment)

After my declining of the holiday invitation yesterday, this morning he deployed the big guns , text and decided it’s time to buy a house together and why don’t we make an offer on a house we have seen for sale.

Hell t’fuck no thanks. Wether he knows what he is doing is rude or not, it’s clear he gives not one shit about how I feel otherwise he’d stop doing it. He’ll put the phone down on me if I ask anything hr doesn’t like - example, are you staying another night at that hotel. Literally not asked in a shitty way, just enquiring.

Time is up, no doubt about it and honestly, he can cry, wait at the fucking station for days, do what ever he wants, or the usual ‘please please give me a month to prove I can change’ bollocks, but I’ve decided, having read all this unanimous advice on what an absolute arsehole of a man he is, that I am done.

Awww bless you…it’s a better feeling once you have finalised your feelings…however it’s still emotional, look after yourself in the coming weeks x

It must feel good to have made a decision. I hope the next bit goes well too.

If he's always had ED, have you ever had a sex life? Honestly it's only been a short relationship on the grand scheme of things, and you have no ties. You sound miserable so why torture yourself any more? Leave him, be free, be happy, and you'll probably find someone lovely and loving.