Why don’t my kids realise how shit their father is?

[bringonyourwreckingball]

Exh and I married 17 years, together 20. Had dd1 about 1 year into the marriage and it was fine at first, I was on mat leave, he did his share of the night shift. Moved nearer my parents and when I went back to work he did very little. I did all the nursery runs etc. He had an emotional affair with a trainee at work, I got pregnant again. Next 14/15 years I did absolutely everything for the kids, still working in a very professional job, turned down promotion opportunities because I knew he would never step up. He would sabotage any attempt I had to have a social life or exercise.
2022 I find out he is having an affair. Paying a woman he met online to meet in hotel rooms for sex. Had been diverting household income for months. I agreed to counselling, he was still being evasive, turns out he had been shagging prostitutes in hotel rooms during the working day for at least 10 years.
At that point I kicked him out.
kids see him twice a week. He pays the bare minimum child support despite being a very high earner. He never, ever puts them first. But today I was in my dd1’s room sorting laundry and she has bought him a rosette which says best dad ever.

But pays the bare minimum in financial support, despite being a high earner. So I agree with OP, pretty crappy behaviour. OP, don’t be tempted to tell them the truth about how he is, but just be aware that they will eventually see it for themselves as they grow older.

I get that he has been a shit husband and you are hurting but you need to let your kids figure this out themselves.

Lord knows my ex is an absolute c**t but I will not utter a bad word about him to our son because he will work it out in his own time.

Just be there to support them when the rose tinted glasses don't work any longer and they do start to realise how shit he is!

I went through a similar experience but nowhere near as abusive as yours. My daughters are now late 20's and have always loved him but the elder D says that while she loves him she doesn't respect him and the younger D is quite dismissive of him whilst still loving him. They will appreciate all that you have done for them and love you in a deeper way x

He’s shit to you but he’s their dad. You don’t want them to grow up with the baggage that comes from not knowing how to feel about your dad, I’ve watched a friend struggle with it from teen years to now (40s) and I feel for her so much. Even if they figure out he’s not a great person both as a person to you, and in general, hopefully they have enough good memories of fun stuff and him being good to them, telling them he loves them etc to get on with their lives. Sorry you went through it all op

I didn't realise how shit my dad was until I was a grown woman with my own kids.
It's impossible for them to understand adult relationships and responsibilities.

Because for them to acknowledge this is for them to know that 50% of themselves (their DNA) is shit. You and I know that they aren't shit, that they are people in their own right and making their own choices etc, but the fact is that they are half him.

That is hard for kids. They may never verbalise their realisation to you, but believe me, they know him and they "see" him.

You dont need a ruddy rosette, you are their stability. But they know they sadly have to "buy" his love with things. It is heart-breaking, but all you can do is be there when the true realization happens.

I have always struggled with the "I have never said a bad word about him" posts. And now I am not sure if that is always the right way. Children need to know when behaviour is wrong, and this doesnt mean slagging Ex-H's off, but just making sure they know certain behaviours are not acceptable.

You want your children to be unhappy with their father so you can be right?

I totally get it, I refuse to sugar coat my ExH behaviour. They don't know the ins and outs but they know why we left and what an arsehole he's been. Imagine spending years telling them lies on top of the lies already told - nope not doing that! He blew the family apart OP with his deceit over many years and in my book that's a shit dad.

Did you consider, asking them?

Sound like they're trying to win his affection.

You tolerated him for so long and set that example so chats need to be had.

I'd be sitting them down and speaking to them about how it was a huge mistake to stay with a man who treated you like shit and how you don't want it for them in their future relationships.

That you see that they still fawn over their father but, we cannot buy affection from people who, font actually have any genuine affection to give.
That you want to know that they are clear about that. That people who treat their partners like shit are not suitable partners. Let alone fathers.

I'd suggest you all do the 'freedom programme' online. To help prevent them ending up in abusive relationships. Because its potentially going that way.

I would actually be quite concerned about this OP. I'm sure you're already doing it, but big up your kids as much as possible, give them as much love and support as you can, let them know you think they're wonderful and be there when he lets them down.

The way I see this - all the "he's great" and "Best Dad ever" stuff - is that parents are meant to love their kids unconditionally and be there for them. They're meant to be their safe space. Kids are meant to be able to play up and be little shits and know that their parents will still be there for them and won't give up on them (albeit they might get short shrift and disciplined depending on the behaviour).

Your kids don't have that from their dad and they can probably sense that they're not that important to him. They're too young to understand that this is his failing, not theirs. So they probably think that if they work extra hard at the relationship, put more effort in, become "better" children, then they might get the response they want from him. I'd be concerned about this as it strikes me as a semi-abusive dynamic but I'm not sure how I would handle it in your position. I'd be worried rather than resentful though (though I can understand why you feel as you do!).

He's a shit husband. You also made questionable choices to stay with him and keep having children when you knew full well that he wasn't trust worthy. None of this should be your children's problem.

I can't help but feel that children with shit parents need to know it's the parent at fault, not them. And I believe this should be spelled out explicitly.

Otherwise they will just be stuck trying to win his approval and wondering what's wrong with them.

It's really difficult. I can see the argument behind "don't disillusion them when they're young, it's not their problem, they'll realise when they're older". But on the other hand if they think the reason that they don't have a "normal" dad who does the usual dad stuff with them is because there's something wrong with them and so they need to try harder to win his approval, then that's an abusive dynamic in itself.

I bloody hated it as a kid my divorced parents moaning about each other, really hated it, big row with my dad once about it, literally said if you don't stop I'm not seeing you again

I don't have an answer for you I'm afraid, and as history has that habit of repeating itself I'm in a split situation now & my god I have to try so so so hard not to say the things that I hated so much as a kid.

I think it's a matter of just honestly addressing situations as they arise so that the kids build a picture over time and are helped to process difficult situations.

Like in the OP's case, there's nothing to be gained for her to tell the kids her ex was spending their university fees on prostitutes at this age. However at the point where her children are young adults and are considering living with a partner and joining finances for the first time, she might want to have a fairly honest conversation with them about the necessity of complete financial transparency in a relationship, and also some of the warning signs of deceptive behaviour. If she feels its appropriate then, she can make reference to her own experience.

If it's a situation where a dad isn't showing up for scheduled contact, or who leaves the kids sitting around bored all day while he drinks with friends, that's behaviour that's directly affecting them and it should never be waved away with false excuses ("Your dad had something come up and couldn't make it but he wishes he could be here") or cheery justifications ("Sometimes it's good to be bored, maybe you could take some pens and paper with you next time so you can draw!"). Those are setting kids up for a skewed understanding of the world.

You sound bitter

You sound lacking in empathy.

I knew my dad was a shit dad cos my mum told me so, frequently. And he was. Impatient, selfish, attention seeking. But she wouldn't leave him. It totally soured my relationship with him for a long time.

As an adult, I see that he was a shit dad but a good person. Although I recognise I spent a long time seeking approval from unattainable men. He just wasn't cut out for parenting. I married a man very, very different to my dad and suspect I am probably quite like my dad. He has many faults. But it was up to me to work that out.

I wish my mum hadn't dumped her frustration on me and made it into an us vs him situation. It wasn't fair.

Was coming on to say exactly this. My ex h is a grade A arsehole. Treated me appallingly. But that's my issue to deal with, not DS's. If I want to discuss what a twat he is, I have friends for that. And if I can spare my DS the pain of realising his dad is a total bellend, then I'd gladly do that, as much as it sticks in my throat sometimes.

If my mum treated me like that I would end up asking her why she had me with him in the first place, parents have to own their own decisions

Whatever he's done and no matter how shitty he's been, he's still their dad, he's the only dad they'll ever get. My 13 year old DD is very aware how shitty a dad her's is. She's aware of his anger issues and his abuse. She see's him always favour her brother. She see's his hypocrisy. She knows because he's made it very clear in front of the children what he's like. She knows because i didnt leave when i should have, but also because of ongoing behaviour post split.
It's not better, she still loves him, he's still her dad, knowing just makes her hurt more. Knowing the person you got 1/2 your DNA from is an angry abusive arsehole doesn't make for a feeling of security, it causes grief and hurt, it harms them. There may be reasons to tell them some of what's gone on in an age appropriate way, but this would be based around things like his behaviour effecting their mental health or self esteem directly and nothing to do with any past or present behaviour directed at you.

So they probably think that if they work extra hard at the relationship, put more effort in, become "better" children, then they might get the response they want from him. Just knowing this doesn't change how they feel. They still seek that, they still feel at fault. The knowledge would need to come with targeted support from a mental health professional to help them realise that its not them and then it's still a slow process with no guarantees.

Her reasoning was that he was her first boyfriend and that she was naive. Which is entirely feasible given she grew up in the 50s/60s. I realised as an adult that it was always someone else's fault that my mum 'couldn't' do x or y, though, so I'm careful not to do that. I am shit in a different way.

There’s often quite plausible reasons that women have children with men who turn out to be shit dads, including that the men say one thing before the children are born and then do another, that the women hope the men “just need time to learn and adjust to becoming a parent”, contraceptive accidents, men going through phases of putting in effort right at the point you’re ready to leave and then stopping, abusive men wearing down a woman’s self-esteem and making her believe his failings are actually her responsibility, etc etc etc.

Its not a simple case of “Well she shouldn’t have had children with someone who was going to be a
shity dad or partner.” Often you don’t realise the situation until it’s too late to put the baby back in.

I disagree with this.

I love my dad. A massive part of who he is and the dad he has been is how he's loved and respected my mum. That love and respect supported her and supported our whole household.
I couldn't imagine how my mum would've coped if she'd been through any of this.
I would've walked away and never looked back if he'd have ever treated her like this.

Many things make you a good parent. Being a unsupportive, crappy partner is not one of them.

while I wouldn’t trash talk the other parent, I think there’s a case for not lying to protect them or pretending everything was wonderful or rosy. I think that can be just as damaging. Perhaps the DD secretly has reservations about their dad’s behaviour- better to have a measure of him.

OP’s ex has been up to some pretty dark shit and no, I don’t think someone like this can be a great father. His views of women are so questionable, that I can’t believe that this is someone who is an all round lovely bloke the rest of the time. This isn’t an exit affair - this man has been leading a double life for years. There’s something very wrong with this man