This is quite long sorry. Big marriage problems [sad]

[catsypug]

Hi - me and DH are in such a mess and I don't know how fixable things are.

For the last 5 years we have lived a life of huge arguments/blowouts followed by days sometimes weeks of silence. Then we'll get on for a few days maybe a week and then the cycle repeats.

It all started when he started setting up his own business. For 2.5 yrs he was doing 2 jobs - keeping a salary from his old job and building his company at weekends/evenings. Very stressful.

When our DD was born 2.5 years ago he finally took the plunge and committed full time to his company. The stress was enormous, awful - we didn't speak for 3 months straight after she was born (because I forgot to upgrade our home internet to broadband - and so when he was on paternity leave he couldn't work) - I still feel resentment about the way he treated me then. It was like I was no better than shit on his shoe (which was all born out of worry and stress on his part) Long silent treatment then screaming at me in rage when she wouldn't let him feed her or if she cried (shivers at the memories). That whole year until she was 1 was just this arguing cycle I described.

Then more stress last year - a disastrous house move, financial nightmares i.e mortgage arrears, scrimping on benefits etc. Ups and downs at his company.

I'm due another baby in June and it's another girl. We hadn't had sex for almost year - had a one off attempt for a boy and we are having a girl - (which is all my fault) He doesn't talk about the pregnancy and I feel I don't want him there at the birth.

My problem is my assertiveness. My confidence/esteem/identity is at rock bottom and I can be shy. I don't have a career as am a SAHM (which he resents) He's around entreprenurs and people who live for work all the time and he looks at me with disgust for not being that way now. And I feel like a fish out of water around him and his colleagues and connections. I feel very strongly that we are not right for each other. That I am wrong for him and holding him back/dragging him down. He hates me for not having my own business or a career that I could have returned to. Any job I could do at the moment would not cover childcare so what's the point? I've tried to find admin/typing jobs I could do at home but credible companies have no vacancies and the rest are scams. (These are all excuses to him....maybe they are)

I always looked to him to be the breadwinner while the kids were young and then it was my plan to return to work when they were at school. He was always fine with that but not now. He hates me because I am always in and not out socialising and yet if I was to put demands on him to be home to babysit he wouldn't be able to do it. Have had to cancel a night out on saturday because he's now working late. I didn't even bother telling him I'd booked to go out and had now cancelled it because he would blame me for not having other babysitting options. (We have no family support my parents moved abroad last October, his are in scotland. We only moved to this area 6 months ago and I don't have the money to pay a babysitter, my friends have also really dwindled into not many now - another sign to him that I'm just not good enough)

I feel like he resents being married and having children (which he would never admit to because he absolute adores DD1) but I do think the guilt he feels about not being there for us EVER and that his quest for making money has taken so much longer than he thought and taken so much work that our marriage has suffered probably irreprably and it has conveniently translated into hatred towards me for 'not being good enough'

We seem incapable of just having normal arguments and then getting over them and moving on like other people do. He escalates everything into something totally unmanageable that we have to live with for weeks, months, years. He is forever blaming and reminding me of the past.

I am forever playing the victim role, going to bed in tears feeling totally hard done by (but then so is he - who can fault him he is trying to make enough money so that in a few years he won't have to work very much and can play with his kids all day and have lovely long family holidays with no stress.....really? Seems like a big carrot being dangled in front of us and I think I have been really niaeve believing it and being swept along when the reality is, he'll always be busy - he can't deal with problems or things going wrong (like our daughter hitting her head and getting a little scar - it was his fault but it became mine)

If he is eventually a financial success then he has said I can look around and feel like I did nothing to help achieve it. So - I fantasise daily about my own life, my own house. I know divorce is not good on kids and neither of us would want our kids to be the victims of broken homes - but at the same time...you only get one life right?

The first thing a lot of people will say is to try Relate or similar.

Having a new baby can put stress on any couple. Teamed with taking a risk like running your own business...well.

Is there any aspect of his business you can do? Might help him feel less stressed, and working as a team may bring you closer together? (Of course, you are a family, and therefore a team, but if the roles were split more, it might help?)

I am so sorry you are feeling like this. It must be extra hard dealing with this without a support system of friends and family on hand.

I understand DH is working hard to provide for you, but it seems he is really feeling the strain too...blaming you for not working and not having a glittering career is absolutely unfair but suggests that he feels overstretched.

Are you getting much communication, other than the rows? Surely, if he wants to spend time with his family, play with his kids etc. NOW is the best time to do that. In 5 years the kids will be so much older and used to having a basically absent father. Does he realise that all the money in the world can't buy him a loving family and it may well be too late by the time he has earned enough (how much is enough?)

You deserve to feel like a person, and not to be undermined for your choices. Does he realise how bad he is making you feel?

I dont know what to say, you sound so sad.

Would he consider counselling, could you perhaps move closer to family so you could have physical support??

Have you looked into sending your child to nursery, could be just a couple of mornings a week to give you a break, have you spoken to your HV, or M/W about feleing so isolated they could recommend toddler groups etc in your area.

I personally think it's more harmful to your children to remain in an unhappy marriage under the delusion that it's good for the children. Children will thrive and be happy if they have love and warmth and food and a roof over their heads, they dont need ot live in a tense unhappy atmosphere where mum cries herself to sleep and daddy and mummy wont speak to one another for days on end. IT just sends out such a wrong message to your girls of what a marriage should be about.

Good luck on whatever you decide, and congrats on your pregnancy. I have two girls there's nothing wrong with havign two girls, they keep eachother amused and you can use your elder childs baby clothes for the younger one, saves money.

Hi there

Do you know what I think? I think the best thing you can do for yourself is work on your self esteem and confidence. Try to value yourself more. You are doing a fantastic job and contributing to your family by being a SAHM and don't let him tell you otherwise. But, my bet is if your confidence levels were higher a lot of what he says wouldn;t have such an impact on you and also, you wouldn't let him get away with his unacceptable behaviour.

Good lord, you poor thing.

You do realise that he is being monstrous, don't you? And that from the way you describe this it cannot be your responsibility that he is behaving so horibly?

I think it is understandable that there is stress in setting up a new business...and that he would expect some suport at home while doing that, but his planning is terrible and his treatment of you around the birth of dd1 just nasty.

It sounds as if he is projecting all his own failings on to you...blaming YOU for not having a babysitter when he lets you down.

Personally I do not think you should scurry around and try to meet his demands . He may well not agree to go to relate, but you could go on your own and maybe try and build up your assertivenes and self-esteem? He may be finding it embarrassingly easy to bully you - and then hating himself for it...but blaming you for 'making' him hate himself. Could you join some sort of assertiveness or self-development group ofr womern? Look in your local library or ask your HV.

Have you read any self-help books? Other people can possibly suggest some that seem relevant to your situation.

Yes - and meant to say, like TimeForMe, you ARE doing a good job, value yourself...and since he won't value you until he values himself, I wouldn't set yourself up to fail by trying to please him! Please YOURSELF - know that you are doing a good job with your children, and personally i would steer very clear of actually working for him - he would then have two arenas in which to use you as his whipping boy.

Well - I know we need counselling and so does he, but there is absolutely no way he would be able to find the time right now and it would only add to his '85,000 other things he has to do'.

DD is at a nursery for 2 hours a day, 3 days a week. It's not much but it's something. I've met a couple of nice mums there actually hope these are friendships that can grow.

There isn't any work I could do with him for his company - they've got loads of staff there now and it would only be admin I can do at the moment which I think he would find embarrassing if I was in there typing and filing.

I have found a course I want to do when baby 2 is about 3 months - it's for a couple of hours on saturdays which he has said he could have the girls and will give me more specialised computer skills which I could then do stuff for him at home if he wants(or - if we divorce at least I'll have a skill to get a job that isn't secretarial)

I totally agree that it's not good for children to grow up around parents who can't communicate - my DD told him to stop shouting at me this morning and he told her that 'sorry baby but mummy's thick'. I would NEVER say anything about him to her. She's 2 for God's sake.

He sounds horrible . Sorry to say that about your DH.

I would echo what others have said on this thread - you need to concentrate on you, on valuing yourself for who you are and the job you are doing currently (SAHM) which is one that can done with pride and satisfaction.

Provide domestic support for your DH (fair enough, he is the breadwinner) but I would not dream of working for him in his company. That will make you feel even worse.

Definitely counselling. Communication between you has completely broken down. But that is only if you both want to save your marriage. He does sound totally unreasonable and very nasty. What do you really want?

That's apalling that he said that to your DD.

I would tell him that you will not put up with that level of disrespect, that you will do your course and that if he doesn't either seek counselling with you, or buck up his ideas by himself, your next stop will be the solicitors.

Oh dear.

That is not acceptable and you need to tell him so.

You need to do some stuff for yourself. That course sounds good.

It sounds as though your husband has anger issues. Well, they are his issues and it is absolutely not on that he is taking them out on you.

Build your new friendships, plan for your course and your new baby.

Don't get drawn into his tantrums.

What a terrible thing for him to say to your dd. HAve you thought about going to Relate just on your own, if dh doesnt have the time? I have a friend who did this and it really helped her put things into perspective and make some decisions.

So he works hard....so do lots of other people but they dont then treat their partners like crap.
He didn't talk to to you after the birth of your child because of the internet connection? That is unforgivable. At a time when you need all the help and support you can get he is more worried about broadband.

You really need to start seeing your own self worth. And then you need to try to get him to talk and listen.

PLease, please get some help that will help you value yourself. MN can be good for that, don't forget for a moment that you are not the cause of his villification of you. He sounds as if he is in a big out of control tantrum.

The more he bullys and abuses you the worse your confidence and selfworth will get.

Your secret weapon in dealing with all this is to get some support and concentrate on building up your self esteem and confidence. He is playing on your vulnerability and low self esteem and he is abusing you because he knows he can, he doesn't suffer any consequences for his actions.

When you get stronger you will feel able to set limits and boundaries and you feel able to act when he steps over them. While your self esteem is so low you will just absorb his abuse like a sponge and this will bring you down even futher and it will allow his abuse it escalate. Please get some help. I think an assertiveness course would be more useful than a computer course at the moment.

I feel so bad for you. Several things about your situation are jumping out at me. Firstly, how can he say that you have contributed nothing to his success when you are at home looking after HIS children. (why is it that some men feel that money is a sign of success and not a happy successful marriage and family??).

Secondly, do you remember why you married in the first place? It is important to hold onto this as it will keep you motivated to try to work on things. Given how much he is putting into his own business, I understand it is difficult to spend time together but this is essential. Even if for the first few times you barely speak. At least it will give you the chance to be together and see what feelings are still there.

Thirdly, someone once said to me that we can only be responsible for our own behaviour - it is up to others how they respond to that. Which in your situation translates into trying to make yourself happy rather than waiting for him to do it.

Fourthly, he should not be speaking to your daughter like that. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but that is appaling and (sp?) disrespectful. By taking time to do things for yourself (respecting yourself) you may encourage him to start showing you some respect.

Counselling does sound like a good idea, I sometimes also delve into a website called marriagebuilders.com, I find the concepts for a successful marriage resonate with me (but only if dh is willing to work on things too).

I think you need to corner him and tell him how serious this is. Then start to work on things together.

I truly feel for you.

Thank you everyone all your wise words have been so encouraging.

You're all right - I've got to work on me. Forget him at the moment, his love for me is completely conditional. He's not going to be able to fully focus on our marriage for a good year I should think - so i've got that time to work on my esteem and self worth and build myself a social life.

Stress can be all consuming and can make people ill. He was once a great person and deep down can be but like a PP said, his planning has been terrible with this business and he has been projecting his failings onto me. It's like living with a Jekyll and Hyde, I am often questioning my sanity in arguments, tip toeing around him on eggshells half the time, thinking carefully before I speak, hiding finance problems from him which I know will come back to haunt me soon, but I just can't bring up we're receiving a CCJ due to mortgage arrears. He has frightening anger issues - not all directed at me or about me but nonetheless - I'm the one who has to live with it.

Thanks for letting me vent and advising me - it's good to get it off your chest.

Thats a good post. You sound much more potitive. Just remember, you can't change his behaviour only your own. But, although you can;t change his behaviour you can change the way you react and respond to it. You could lead by example and hopefully he will follow. He has to understand that he cannot treat you with such disrespect. He may be under a lot of stress and he may be depressed but that gives him no right to project that onto you, and don't you allow him to!

Some things to try:

re not being drawn in. When he starts, imagine a perspex bubble all around you. He cannot penetrate it. You can see and hear him through it, but within it you operate YOUR world. If he shouts, let it bounce of the bubble. Reply reasonably. Don't get upset (think 'this is about him, in his world, not about me in my bubble'). Say neutral things like 'I see' or 'that must be v distressing for you. can i help in any way?' or 'yes, it's a shame I can't go out, but let me deal with my own problems for now'. He can't escalate things so easily by himself.

Think high status. Imagine yourself as an animal that you admire which is strong and stately. Spend dome time every day imagining walking and talking like that animal. When he starts, think of that animal, and be strong, calm and unruffled.

If you manage this for one part of one conversation each day, you will be doing well, and giving yourself a feeling of liberation. Practice it in non-confrontational conversations or with other peopel before the next crisis with him.

Brilliant post Blu!

Dear catsypug, how sad for you to be in a situation like this. >Hugs<

How dare he say this to your DD1???? Is this man right in his head??? I am so for you!!!

Girl, you need to get some help asap. Relate do guides, too if he cannot be arsed to go to councelling. TBH, if he doesn't want to go, then the race is half run, isn't it? I mean: why does all the responsibility for the house, family and state of affairs rest on your shoulders? Why does he blame you for everything?

My dp flew solo for about 1 1/2 years prior to getting the job here in Asia. It was the most stressful time we've ever had. I was working full time (50-60 hours/week) yet he expected me to clean the house, iron all our clothes (esp. the frickin shirts), change cat litters, get cats to doctor, get car serviced, buy groceries and make dinner. I had something close to a nervous breakdown whenever he screamed that he was stressed, all the responsibility was resting on him, I was living the life of riley going out with clients or 'dawdling around' on the trading floor. As if I enjoyed being out twice per week till 9pm listening to some bulls on markets and stories of downing champers in St. Trop when I still had to fill out documents and get admin done. Or being screamed at by a raging client or market maker that something went wrong with an order...

I cried my eyes out to my Mum who suggested I a) get a cleaner in, b) take shirts, bed linen, etc to laundry and shop online for groceries and order take-outs. This lifted the pressure but dampened his mood calling me lazy and incapable. Until people started mentioning to him what an unpleasant shit he was being and how no one could compete with him as he's so f*cking fabulous and thinks he's better than anyone else. To cut a long story short: he was on the verge of a breakdown and treated everyone in a nasty way because he was not coping with the pressure at work. It's all disappeared now that he's back in gainful employment with a lot of creative space for him. I still shudder when I think of how it was half a year ago. If it ever came back I'd book the next flight out to my parents.

I'm afraid I cannot tell a success story, in our case it was simply that the pressure stopped and we got back to normality. I think your dh's case sounds similar to my dp's. The reasons why I'd also suggest counselling are because of the way he speaks about you and the constant blame (the sex of your baby which is BTW determined by the man). He is incredibly selfish to say that when he's made money you'll look around and will have contributed nothing to it. Ahem: excuse me??? Sacrifices come in a lot of forms! You and your DD1 are allowing him to proceed with his dream of building a business at the price of financial stability and a loving husband/father that is physically and emotionally present. The environment you describe sounds really loveless because of your dh. I'm really for you and your DD and baby. Do not let his comments get you down, focus on your children and try to get out a bit. Make an effort to meet new people and organize playdates away from your house.

Blu has written down some very good tips. Especially the bubble worked for me, too. I'd hear my dp shout and rage and all I'd say is something affirmative such as: 'Yes, I see your point.' nodding and saying 'uhu, yes...' Be vague but affirmative. Tread carefully and when he rants again keep away from him, take DD and go out or retreat to her room and read to her or go to bed. Always imagine that bubble around you and all his nastiness sliding off it like oil.

He says all these things to you because you don't stand up for yourself. Your and DD1s sacrifice is giving him time and space to pursue his dream. Not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur, I'm not and I was successful till I gave up my job a month ago. People contribute to a relationship in different ways. Stand up for your way!!! Don't let him walk all over you. Next time he says that, retort that his solo trip is very much enabled by you and DD missing out on him and foregoing financial security.

Could you try to find a free course in your council? Or join a group of other women so you socialise more and find something to do which you like and are good at? What did you enjoy when you were single? Or before you had DD1? If you get involved in something new it will build up your courage and self-esteem.

A word on the side: were you to take up a company or being an entrepreneur yourself and -god forbid- more successful than your dh...he'd loathe you and your success. Sounds like that type of guy to me.

Catsy, could you not go away for 2 weeks? Home to your parents? I think you need a respite from his horrible presence.

I think at some point there has to be a very frank talk as the environment you and your children are subjected to is toxic. Maybe he'd prefer to be on his own? See what he thinks and refuse to buy into the dangling carrot thing. The situation needs to change now, before it's too late.

Wishing you strength. Keep us posted. x

That's really good advice Blu and Alexa - I'm going to start imagining myself in this bubble!

We're not really talking at the moment which is great as it means no arguments, and are sleeping separately which we also really prefer. It's got to the point where I can't sleep if he's in the bed breathing next to me.

Today I am going to research womens groups for confidence and esteem building. I never even considered trying the council library so thank you for suggesting that. I keep dreaming of this new person I could be.

Not that I am or have always been a complete sad sack, but I think what has happened is that I have let my identity disappear and with it my confidence. I used to be really sociable and outgoing before having kids.

My plan is to go for a 2 week holiday at my parents about 6 weeks after I give birth (I'm due in 9 weeks) with the girls. I wasn't going to at first (guilt for leaving DH without his kids) but now I think it will be a really good thing to do for everybody.

When you're not talking, don't huff and puff and do 'passive agressive' stuff - as far as possible be calm and polite and neutrally friendly - let him see you are getting on with the pleasant business of being you and if he chooses to strop, that's up to him.

And every night, jot down in a special lovely notebook a list of things you have achieved that day, and a list of things you have enjoyed. Thet can be tiny moments, or major tasks - you complimented a woman who was looking down at the school gate and made her smile, you cleaned the cupboards, you enabled your child to complete something they didn't understand, etc.

If you find yourself having a glass of wine or a choc to cheer yourself up (and you should ), don't just mindlessly numb yourself into disraction with it, pro-actively think 'I deserve this because I...', and give yourself a smile at the same time.

You're doing well...you sound good in your post.

Have you heard of domestic abuse? Fron your post I think many people would see you as having the misfortune of living with a domestic abuser.

I know it sounds extreme but you have not done this to yourself

" i think what has happened is that I have let my identity disappear and with it my confidence. I used to be really sociable and outgoing before having kids."

Is it really you who has done this? Or has living with such negativity led to such a severe behaviour change?

THis is one definition of domestic abuse -

"Domestic abuse occurs when one person in an intimate relationship or marriage tries to dominate and control the other person. An abuser doesn?t ?play fair.? He uses fear, guilt, shame, and intimidation to wear you down and gain complete power over you."

Take time whne you are with your parents to take stock. Good luck for the next few weeks and months.

This kind of thing sends shivers down my spine. He is being emotionally abusive towards you and for your sanity I would say that you need to look to get out of the marriage. I know this sounds extreme, but I have been there, treaded on eggshells and thought that all of his anger was because of something I had done.

It's not your fault. This is not about you, it's him. He will find fault with ANYTHING you do, right or wrong from the sounds of it. If this continues your self esteem will slowly get smaller and smaller.

My ex said much the same things to my kids as your H said to your daughter. It's extremely damaging. Think in the future - will your daughters put down their future partners or will they choose someone like their father who makes them miserable. For their sake you have to get strong and stand up to him. The best thing you could do is get some therapy for yourself. It did me the world of good and helped me to extricate myself from my ex.

This is the type of guy that will NEVER be happy, whatever you do. That's his problem, not yours. What Blu said before about being in a bubble is spot on - very useful.

Read up on emotionally abusive relationships to. I found some sites on the web rather good such as this and this

You know, you will find that you are much stronger than you think.