Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help me. Father refusing to bring daughter home

289 replies

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 01:48

Hello everyone,

I have NC to protect my identity.

I know it is too early to post at this time. But I haven't been sleeping nor eating for a couple of days. My abusive ex is making excuses not to return our daughter back home and I don't know what to do.

To begin. I have a daughter who is 13 and has additionally needs. I have been the primary carer for my daughter since she's been born whilst her father was in and out of her life and due to the abuse, was encouraged to see our daughter through supervised contact but he refused.

Two years ago, he reappeared and requested to be involved in our daughter's life. But has caused nothing but trouble. He proclaims that he wants to see his daughter but I feel this is more about him reclaiming his control. So many episodes have happened (he has an indefinite restraining order in place). He has been stalking me, been outside our flat on numerous occasions, came to my daughter school to attempt to take her and sundew had a big scuffle with the teachers who stopped him, One day my daughter saw him on the way to school and she went out with him and by the time I found out, he then began to refuse to bring her back, we rang the police, we were searching up and down past 1am until my mother convinced him to bring her back. He proclaimed that he wanted to see his daughter and I was refusing and wanted us to sort out the matter. I did not. I was hoping he would soon begin to lose interest but I wished I took this as a sign to take this to court. As you can see, he has been breaching the restraining order over and over again.

Fast forward to last week, my daughter and I have been staying at my family's house during the summer break as we are renovating our flat. My cousin and my ex get along very very well and in the past, when my daughter will spend weekends at my family's house, my ex will contact my cousin to get through to my daughter and they will have telephone conversations. I didn't think this was weird and was slightly relieved so didn't take an issue with this. But then my ex would give my cousin stuff to give to my daughter that he bought for her- but I was unaware, to the point that my cousin would refuse to tell me what the dad got for my daughter as he would say "it is his business and he told me not to tell you".

Anyway, back to last week. So we have been staying at my family's house yada yada. My daughter went to see my cousin to ask him about something, whilst I was downstairs pottering around. Then all of a sudden, I just heard a bang- like a door has been shut and footsteps hurrying out. I immediately went to look out of the door, but saw nothing, I then went to look out of the window to see who went out of the house, nothing, I then went upstairs to check on my daughter, but despite calling her name, she was not answering and I couldn't see my cousin. I immediately called my cousin but he was not picking up my calls. Then, I just knew that my cousin took my daughter to her father's house. I called my sister, my ex's family, and they confirmed that they were able to get through to the dad and my cousin and confirmed that my daughter was at their father's.

I have called my ex on numerous occasions to bring my daughter home. But he is refusing. He says that this is all "my fault" and that I should have made an agreement to allow him to see her and that he would only return her if an agreement was put in place or he would keep a hold of her and wait for the court to ask him to return her back. My family have been pleading with him to return our daughter back and he would then make promises that he will return her on such and such day, but makes an excuse not to bring her. He is asking to see his daughter, unsupervised, one day a week during term day and to have her for half of the holidays. But I have told him that due to his unpredictable behaviour and the fact we can't co parent and that he doesn't know my daughter very well. We need to take it step by step and have something in writing. But he is refusing.

I have had to cancel all my daughter's doctor's appointments because she is not back. I have spoken to her on the phone and she seems okay. But she doesn't know where she is and would not tell me as her father tells her not to say anything. Her father has now agreed to give her back tomorrow as she has an appointment then but now he is asking for proof of this as he has enjoyed spending time with her and does not want her to come back. Now I am up worried that this will be another excuse not to bring her home.

What do I do? I know she is 13- soon to be 14 and that she is a teen and wants to see her father and can technically just go and see her father whenever she wants without my permission. But her father's behaviour is so unpredictable, where it compromises my safety. My cousin is ignoring my calls and is refusing to tell me the father's address. I am just distraught. I have brought her up as a single parent for the past 13 years. We have a holiday booked but I don't know if I have to cancel that one. I am just broken and don't know what to do.

OP posts:
Allforareason · 20/08/2024 08:37

What the actual F have a just read?!? Call the police! Get your child back and then seek legal advice immediately. If he’s threatening to take her away if you call the police that’s more evidence of why he shouldn’t have contact without arrangements in place… you know.. by threatening actual kidnap. Also think about this, where would he take her if you called the police. I’m assuming you have her passport so he’s not taking her abroad and there’d be a massive manhunt to get her back. This man is a total moron. He’s not going to get to see her in prison is he.
As for your cousin what to high heavens are you doing having any contact with this person?! You are her mother. You cut out every single person who poses her harm, including family if necessary.

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 20/08/2024 08:44

Picoloangel · 20/08/2024 06:34

If you have a non molestation in place you’ll likely qualify for legal aid. You’ll need to make an emergency application to the Court (County/Family) on a C100. A Courg will deal with this very urgently.

As an aside your cousin is despicable, I wouldn’t have anything further to do with him.

Please do this

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 20/08/2024 08:45

Is your family not absolutely disgusted with your cousin??? I’d never speak to him again.

PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 08:45

Mintypig · 20/08/2024 08:14

She has a court order to say social care or the courts have to arrange contact so the police will bring her home.

I used to work in family court - ring the police now.

That's not true. The order makes provision for how contact can take place without the mother being exposed to the father. It doesn't expressly prohibit contact, if it did it would say that. If the DD at age 13 has decided to spend time with him off her own bat (even if coerced) that doesn't breach the court order. If you worked in the family court you will know that orders are very specific and limited in their scope and are easily misinterpreted by lay people, and also that police will only enforce it if it is absolutely clear that a breach has taken place.

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 20/08/2024 08:46

Allforareason · 20/08/2024 08:37

What the actual F have a just read?!? Call the police! Get your child back and then seek legal advice immediately. If he’s threatening to take her away if you call the police that’s more evidence of why he shouldn’t have contact without arrangements in place… you know.. by threatening actual kidnap. Also think about this, where would he take her if you called the police. I’m assuming you have her passport so he’s not taking her abroad and there’d be a massive manhunt to get her back. This man is a total moron. He’s not going to get to see her in prison is he.
As for your cousin what to high heavens are you doing having any contact with this person?! You are her mother. You cut out every single person who poses her harm, including family if necessary.

It’s not as easy as calling the police as many other Pps have said. She needs to go through the court. But yes agree about never speaking to the cousin again ever.

InkyPinkyPonky24 · 20/08/2024 09:04

@PeriIsKickingMyButt I agree with everything you have said but even with a breach of court order (assuming we are talking a CAO) the police wouldn't get involved unless there was an order of removal specifically from the court.

To others who have said it's abduction, it's not if he has PR and there are no court ordered restrictions in place. If he left the jurisdiction of the U.K. without permission of all who have PR and without a CAO (assuming this is happening in the U.K.), then yes that would be abduction and is a criminal offence.

OP, you really need to speak to a lawyer as this is a complex case by the sounds of it, especially if you don't know where he is living etc.

Newbutoldfather · 20/08/2024 09:07

Talk to the solicitor who drafted the restraining order to see if this is a police matter.

If it is, go straight to the police and ignore his threats. Bullies tend to back down when confronted by strength.

And start the process of getting a formal contact order in place.

Backtothedungeon · 20/08/2024 09:14

How did you end up with the restraining order? If it comes with a power of arrest you need to start by reporting the breaches of that. He can then be arrested, and you will be able to get your DD back. You then need to get to court and get child contact sorted properly.

2boyzNosleep · 20/08/2024 09:16

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 20/08/2024 08:46

It’s not as easy as calling the police as many other Pps have said. She needs to go through the court. But yes agree about never speaking to the cousin again ever.

OK, I have no idea on the law with parental responsibility/contact, etc.

Surely, NOT contacting the police would be held against OP in the future when trying to legally show that the dad is not a safe person to be around?

Theres already a lot of things that have been done that paints OP in a bad light:
OP has continued to allow DD to be around her cousin knowing that the cousin has been sharing information with the Dad.
OP knew that her cousin had taken her DDtoo see her husband.
It's been 6 days and OP hasn't done anything 'offically' to get her DD back.
OP family must know about what has been happening and what the cousin has done, but it doesn't sound like they think it's a problem?

The dad is a controlling bastard, and clearly making the most of OP vulnerability and lack of family support.

However, OP do something now. Further down the line at court, I imagine they would be questioning why you continued to let DD around your cousin and why you waited 6 days to do anything. Its shit and not fair that these men get away with it, but he would be able to use this against you to say you're not able to make decisions in the best interest of DD.

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 09:25

He has just said he will bring him back on Friday.

OP posts:
seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 09:25

Sorry. I meant the dad said he will bring her back on Friday now.

OP posts:
Againlosinghope · 20/08/2024 09:27

Why don't you send photo of hospital appointment? Then he can either return child for appointment or take child to appointment

DandyClocks · 20/08/2024 09:34

Start the legal process now and book an appointment with a family law solicitor today. He’s toying with you and playing you for a fool and you need to take back control of the situation using the law as your weapon. Once you get a court order the police will be able to go and fetch her home.

Don’t wait to see if he brings her home on Friday (he won’t!) because then it will be the weekend and you’ll have to wait until next Monday before you can do anything.

He’s not really interested in getting to know his daughter otherwise he’d be out doing fun things with her rather than keeping her cooped up in a house like a prisoner. This is just another way to hurt you and he’s succeeding. Don’t play his game.

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 09:38

How do I apply for an emergency court order?

OP posts:
PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 09:40

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 09:38

How do I apply for an emergency court order?

Go onto the gov.uk website and search around until you find the right form.

Yalta · 20/08/2024 09:41

Why do you believe he will bring her back on Friday

Why not get the police involved

Why are you putting such store in what he says

This is an unstable person. Why are you putting your daughter in danger.

I would put money on the fact this isn’t about wanting to see his daughter but more about the power he still has over you.

Break the shackles this man has over you and your daughter and stop doing as you are told

Call the police because a dangerous man without any supervised or unsupervised visits allowed by the court has your daughter and she is too scared to tell you where she is.

Yalta · 20/08/2024 09:43

Also tell the police that the cousin kidnapped your daughter (they took a minor from the resident parent without permission)

PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 09:48

Yalta · 20/08/2024 09:41

Why do you believe he will bring her back on Friday

Why not get the police involved

Why are you putting such store in what he says

This is an unstable person. Why are you putting your daughter in danger.

I would put money on the fact this isn’t about wanting to see his daughter but more about the power he still has over you.

Break the shackles this man has over you and your daughter and stop doing as you are told

Call the police because a dangerous man without any supervised or unsupervised visits allowed by the court has your daughter and she is too scared to tell you where she is.

THE POLICE WILL NOT RETURN HER
The OP is doing absolutely the right thing by trying to keep the man calm and reasonable whilst also looking into how to make an application to the court for an emergency hearing if he doesn't return her. Calling the police now won't achieve anything other than antagonising him. The time to report to the police is after she has her DD back.

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 20/08/2024 09:52

Yalta · 20/08/2024 09:43

Also tell the police that the cousin kidnapped your daughter (they took a minor from the resident parent without permission)

Now this is worth reporting!! (After you get her back)

Edingril · 20/08/2024 09:54

I think people have been watching too many episodes of Line of Duty stop the dramatics

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 10:07

My sister called him. She mentioned that he was crying on the phone but has just said that he will now bring back my DD today.

If I call the police, it will antagonise him and my daughter is with him so I cannot risk it. I need to get her back as any means possible. If he does not return her later today then I will have no choice but to inform the police. Right now, I am on the phone to Women's Aid to see how I could go about applying for an emergency order.

OP posts:
AnywhereAnyoneAnyTime · 20/08/2024 10:08

OP I would find a solicitor who can advise your best way forward.

MN loves to advise people to “ring the police” but in all honesty the police aren’t going to do anything.

He hasn’t breached anything because the restraining order is against you and so by your cousin taking your DD to him he has explicitly stayed away from you.

If your daughter went willingly then it is not kidnap because she has gone to a parent with parental responsibility, the cousin isn’t holding her against her will.

Although the courts have previously advised that you could allow supervised contact you have chosen not to do this in the past so it’s unlikely that is going to go in your favour.

And most importantly your daughter is the one whose wishes are going to be put above everyone else’s. She’s 13, and unless she lacks mental capacity her wishes are going to be taken into account, and if she wishes to have regular contact with her father, even if she wishes to go and live with him the courts will take it into account.

If you don’t want her to miss her hospital appointment then I would send him a copy of it and advise him that he needs to take her.

Then see a solicitor in the background to see if there is anything you can do going forward. But given her age, there’s a chance this won’t go in your favour.

Yalta · 20/08/2024 10:11

PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 09:48

THE POLICE WILL NOT RETURN HER
The OP is doing absolutely the right thing by trying to keep the man calm and reasonable whilst also looking into how to make an application to the court for an emergency hearing if he doesn't return her. Calling the police now won't achieve anything other than antagonising him. The time to report to the police is after she has her DD back.

What if he never brings her back?

AnywhereAnyoneAnyTime · 20/08/2024 10:12

Cross-posted. Don’t bother with th police. He’s done everything wrong morally but legally he hasn’t as the restraining order is to keep him away from you and not your daughter.

It is a good idea to get a court order in place to stipulate a proper access arrangement because then if he goes against that he will be in breach.

But be prepared for the possibility that he will be granted more access than you want him to have, depending on your daughter’s wishes.

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 10:20

AnywhereAnyoneAnyTime · 20/08/2024 10:12

Cross-posted. Don’t bother with th police. He’s done everything wrong morally but legally he hasn’t as the restraining order is to keep him away from you and not your daughter.

It is a good idea to get a court order in place to stipulate a proper access arrangement because then if he goes against that he will be in breach.

But be prepared for the possibility that he will be granted more access than you want him to have, depending on your daughter’s wishes.

Even with his track record and the numerous police reports that I have of him. Including school witnessing his abuse??

OP posts: