DP - Sex Workers - Ducks in a Row Quack! Quack! Help and advice please

[ZestyMaximus]

Well, I didn't think I'd ever be writing this post, yet here I go.

Firstly, I have no issues with sex workers or how they earn their money. No judgement from me and any advice, help or suggestions from anyone in the industry, or anyone who has experienced similar to me, would be very welcome.

My relationship with my DP has been up and down over the 10 years we've been together, but nothing massive or unusual. Pretty much just the usual challenges that most couples might experience at one time or another.

We just very recently moved our lives 200 miles from across the country for a better quality of life. Neither of us know anyone in the area and both of our jobs we took with us working remotely.

I was using DPs iPad yesterday (we have each other's passcodes and permission to use each other's phones and iPads), looking for a contact in his SMS messages, which pull through from his phone. I found the following message before I found the one I was looking for:

"My address is ***. Once you have arrived please call me and I can tell you my apartment number. There is visitors parking you can park in. See you on Sunday at 10am. I'm looking forward to seeing you xx"

Followed by my DP reply of: "Great, thanks (his name) x"

Thanks to Mumsnet and some of the posts I've seen here previously I know enough to be suspicious that this is the same sort of way of working sex workers use and would message. Then when I google the number I get shown several different sex working sites / reviews for the same profile, based just a handful of miles away from our new home. I'm guessing he used Adultwork based on the search results, but don't know for sure. There's also UKPunting which I've heard of but that seems to be just reviews?

I've since looked at his call log and can see that he called her (FaceTime! - his iPad only shows FaceTime calls, not actual phone calls) for 4 minutes just a few minutes before her message with address came through, two days before the booked appointment was due to happen. I'm assuming the call was so she could authenticate him as genuine and they could discuss what he wanted from their booking. I feel sick just thinking about that. Then he called me, I assume asking if I wanted anything from the shops, as he sent a photo to me in Whatsapp of an empty shelf of a product I often ask him to pick up for me moments later. How thoughtful. Straight after booking his appointment.

So, he's clearly searched for and found sex workers. Called one, arranged an appointment and discussed what he wanted.

I know what I need to do. I just need some more information to better decide how to do it. For my own sanity and peace of mind. I know some people would say I already know enough to leave. They're right. But I also want to know how I'm going to leave and who it is that I'm leaving. I've always been the sort of person who benefits from having the full picture so that nothing can be refuted, I can't be gaslit, or brush it aside and I know exactly how much shit I'm needing to wipe off my shoe. So, I guess, I need to know where he is on the scale of arranging an appointment with one person once but not going through with it to this being the tip of the iceberg and he's been doing this numerous times and gone through with the bookings throughout our relationship. I want to know if the meeting went ahead. I want to know if there have been others.

So, questions, help and advice please wonderful fellow Mumsneters.

I assume there's no way to view his Adultwork profile unless he makes a booking directly with you? Or if I have his login, which I don't. It's not set up on his iPad or in the history and getting uninterrupted access to his phone, which is where I'm sure he's searched and booked from, is a lot harder and riskier as he'll only be a room or two away and probably very briefly. Wanting to see if he's given or received feedback, or to see his bookings page, if that's something that's saved on there, to see if the booking(s) ? Then I'd know for sure if he'd gone ahead or not and how many times.

Also, I guess if I get access to his phone I can check his call log there to see if he did indeed call her the morning of the appointment. Not concrete proof as he could always be calling to cancel I guess. But, if it was directly around 10am that would be pretty decent indication that he's just parked up and needs buzzing up.

Bank statements - We have completely separate accounts for everything. Again these would show either a purchase for credits on the site, or cash withdrawal that would confirm him paying cash upon arrival at the appointment. No idea how to get sight of these though as he doesn't receive paper copies and his banking apps both, obviously, have security on them that I can't access. Any ideas how to plausibly ask to see bank and credit card statements from February this year?

Oh, I've looked back through my own photos, bank statement, call logs and here's what I do know about the day of the appointment. He went to the gym as usual. Probably 8-9am ish. His appointment just a few miles away from both home and gym was arranged for 10am. He called me at 11:03am and we spoke for 38 seconds. Probably an 'on my way home now, sorry it's a little later than I expected' kind of call. I then took him out to a local ice cream drive in place I'd found and we ate way too much of it in my car, then that evening we enjoyed pizza together in front of the television. What a normal kind of Sunday with my loving DP huh? FFS!

The timing of the 11:03am call screams 'just finished my hour long sex appointment'.

Sorry, this has become a way too long post! I just wanted to get it all written down and to avoid drip feeding as much as possible.

Any advice, suggestions, or help I would be so grateful to receive. I'm swinging between numbness, anger, sadness, denial. I want to keep my powder dry and get my ducks fully in a row before playing my hand. So far I've managed to be chipper and upbeat, and loving so no suspicions from him that there's anything wrong I don't think.

Sending love OP, you’re obviously an incredibly graceful and dignified person and I bet a total hoot to hang out with as well. You don’t deserve this shit, life will be easier again soon

They describe them like live dolla too; generally they outline boobs, arse, vulva, height, figure, colouring, sometimes something about their race/nationality,maybe something about how much English they do/don't speak, something about their attitude.

That's it.

Living sex dolls.

They only mention their attitude if they're obligingly bubbly/friendly, or if they're dour/pissed off (not a cheerful enough sex doll).

I saw one mention that the young woman was out of it and obviously using drugs so he wouldn't repeat it, but that he was glad he'd got the experience of her famous deep throat BJ that everyone mentioned in her reviews.

They talk about them like restaurants ("oh thanks for the review, been meaning to try her out for a while, next time I'm in X town , I'll definitely book her".

It's also very notable from UK punting that the majority of prostitutes are immigrant women whose English isn't good.

This is honestly why I think it should be illegal and why I don’t understand women who think ‘prostitute cheating’ is better than ‘normal cheating’.

better for them maybe ‘because it was just transactional’. It’s not like they love them. No it’s worse. They don’t even see these women as people.

It’s not better generally. For anyone.

you have to see some women as sub-human to think this is ok.

This makes my stomach turn.

Hi Zesty and thank you for your kind response. It's good of you to be so nice under the circumstances you find yourself in so thank you for that.

To answer your questions, in my experience it's not usual to do a FaceTime call; it would normally be a standard phone call. However that's just me; no doubt there are escorts that confirm bookings this way.

All escort premises have facilities to shower, and the client is free to use it before, or after, or both. Some ladies insist gents use the shower first. But mostly it's up to the client to use it if and when he wants. Most clients shower afterwards and mens toiletries are usually provided.

I hope that helps in a small way.

Nothing to add except that you sound strong and I am so so sorry you e discovered this. Nothing surprises me when it comes to surprise revelations about men and sex.

This is nothing to do with you, you know that. He is a just total scum.

How about his Google timeline? Alot of people have it turned on unknowingly and usually it will be linked to multiple devices if they are logged in to the Google account on them. If he has it switched on you can check exactly where he has been

I’m so sorry you’re going through this OP. Sounds like you’re being sensible about getting organised. I do think you have sufficient evidence. Ducks in a row. Get any paperwork you can find on finances, pay slips in case you need them. Remember if you live alone you can get some discounts such as council tax. I was amazed how much I got my bills down when XH moved out.

I couldn’t see that your iPhone question was answered. If you go into photos/albums and scroll to the bottom, it says ‘Hidden’. You can add photos to there. They don’t show up in your camera roll and can only be accessed with face ID/passcode (if Face ID doesn’t work). Change your passcode and passwords too. Just in case. Good luck getting rid. You deserve so much better.

Hi RedFox,

Whilst I hate the situation I completely understand that it's not her fault that men including DP choose to cheat. He found her. He called her. He met her(?) He knows his relationship status. It's not like she pursued him. So, much as the many thoughts of what they talked about and potentially did twists me up inside, it's him who's wronged me / us. Not her.

If, theoretically, I was to speak to her (I'm not going to) and she agreed to talk, it'd only to get a better understanding of what he did / how many times / what they talked about etc. I hold no malice to her, you, or anyone else in her position / line of work.

Thank you for answering my questions. It does indeed help better understand the process and what's involved.

Just a few observations, which others may have already made. The facetime calls shows it was almost certainly his first meeting with this girl - she likely vets all her new clients this way before meeting them. It's a good way to check that they're genuine and see if they give off any bad vibes. But the way their communications went suggests that he's not new to using sex workers at all (and the chances of you catching him out the very first time are slim indeed). Unfortunately, I think that most men who pay for sex do so quite regularly - it's almost never a one off.

Try to find out if he's withdrawn cash in the lead up to his appointment - most people don't tend to keep much cash around these days.

And if you can access it, google maps timeline will confirm for definite if he went to her address. Not sure if Apple has an equivalent? You're probably aware that if you challenge him, as soon as he realises you've seen the messages he'll try to tell you it was just a fantasy and that he never actually went through with meeting her.

I'm sorry you're in this position. Life can be tough.

Thank you for your message and thoughts on this. I think that's probably why it was a FaceTime too. First time he's spoken to her and a good way to vet people. Possibly not the first time he's made a call and booking with someone though.

He has an iPhone and it doesn't look as though Apple has the same sort of equivalent. Or at least, not one that doesn't need specifically turning on, rather than being on by default. So probably not going to be anything there if I look. I will try to do that though.

I'm definitely not going to challenge him until I have something that confirms the appointment definitely went ahead. Otherwise, as you said, he can and probably would deny it and I'd never know for sure. I know people are saying I don't need more proof. Any maybe they wouldn't. But I need to know for sure if it went ahead or not. And if there were others 😔

A little update for those following. I managed to get a few minutes with his phone tonight. I only had a short while and checked his call history. It doesn't go back far enough (February) so that's a dead end 🙁I'm going to need to see his call records. He's with EE. They don't email invoices, which is really annoying as I can easily access his emails. About the only thing I can get access to easily. So I will need access to his EE app or account. That's going to be a lot harder, and require me to know his password. I don't think that is going to be possible.

My only other option, that I can think of, is his bank statements. Similar issue of needing to know his passwords though. For both Halifax and Monzo. That or try to think of a way to ask him to forward them to me for some reason. The only one that I can think of is the re-mortgage. But I need to go back to January and February of this year! And the re-mortgage isn't until December / January time. That's not going to be easy to convince him.

I may have access to his work laptop later this week. Maybe. I have the logon password. I highly doubt he's searched for sex workers on there or have any messages there but I can check. I might, however, be able to find something that gets me access to his bank accounts. Again. Maybe... Bank apps on his phone is how he manages his accounts. Possibly another dead end without his phone in my hands, the passwords to both banks, AND time to check several months of each of the three accounts, and delete the apps from 'recent' once I've finished. Hmmm.

I think the only way you could hope to get access to his bank accounts would be if he's a very heavy sleeper and you can take his fingerprint without waking him up. Or, if he ever gets drunk ( maybe go out with him, volunteer to do the driving, get him pissed).

Why do you need proof that he went through with it ? Isnt what you've found enough ? And what is enough? What happens if you do get a bank statement for that day & it shows a cash withdrawal of £50. Would that satisfy you ? I dont expect £50 would have got him much - maybe a 15 min visit? Even a BJ would have probably cost him £75. So then you are back wondering did he take out money on another day too. There are threads on here where women looking to raise money to run away are told to do cashbacks over a period of time to give to avert suspicion.

Frankly speaking, what is enough for you ? What is your red line ?

Lockable photo storage app for an iPhone is called Photo Vault. There's a free version without all the bells and whistles but it does what you need. When you have installed it, click on it so that it wobbles as if you were going to delete it and select remove from Home Screen. It'll still be searchable in your app library but won't be sitting there visible to all. Also, choose a different password to those you normally use.

If you can add your own fingerprint or face to his phone some how you may be able to get into banking apps where he uses biometric log ins. Eg I have 2 of my fingers registered on my phone and I can use either to log into various apps.

If you have similar phones I'd suggest "accidentally" picking up his phone when you pop out one day .

He shared that info with you so you could choose to not be in a relationship with him, or be in a two way open relationship where you were also allowed to use (male) escorts, right?

Why do I have a feeling the answer is no.

But I need to know for sure if it went ahead or not. And if there were others 😔

No offence but even if he didn't go ahead with that "punt", how likely is it he's not gone ahead with (probable) previous punts and/or would not go ahead with any future ones?

He's likely done it before ... Seems quite au fait, and if he truly didn't go through with that one.... He's in the habit/mode/mindset of using prostitutes, so how likely would there be to never be another episode?

It's a lifestyle.

Their partners are unlikely to catch them the first or only time they're setting up a punt.

He told me because he got caught, realised he’d totally fucked up a relationship he desperately wanted and needed, and thought honesty was the best policy and that if he just explained hard enough, I’d understand his fucked up logic and take him back. (I probably don’t need to add that I didn’t - the idea that he’d treat women in such a way continues to physically turn my stomach. Good riddance to him.)

Ah, that's a really good idea. Thank you! His phone and tablet both have face recognition rather than finger print, but I've checked and you can add second faces there too. I'll do that next opportunity I get extended time with his phone and hopefully then be able to see his bank and card statements.

Unfortunately our phones are very different. His is large and red, mine is blue and small. Otherwise that would be a great shout.

Thank you for your suggestions 🙂

I'm sorry you went through that.

Clearly he didn't appreciate that there is no way of explaining hard enough that you've set up different rules for yourself than your life partner around fundamentals; and opted not to tell them about that fact.

I suppose it fits that someone with such little empathy is a prostitute user.

His attitude reminds me of that of a young woman's fiance who posted on here, she caught him using sex workers during their relationship (Inc engagement) and he told her he'd done it pretty much his whole adult life, introduced by male relatives.

Re. having sex with prostitutes during their relationship, he said "other than that, I've been totally faithful!". Meaning not cheated with non prostitutes. He seemed to group prostitutes & prostitute sex into one category and "real" women (and sex with them) into another. The former was not "really" cheating.

I always wonder if men like him would see their partners getting with male escorts behind their backs etc. as not really cheating too.

Rhetorical question... Not a fkg chance.

Ah, you need the primary face to unlock the ability to record a second face. You can't use the passcode to add a second face ID. Back to the drawing board! Brilliant idea though.