Friendship with school mums

[Katia2511]

This might end up being a long one, but I'd really appreciate some advice please if you can stick with it.

I've been friends with A and B for nearly 3 years, when our boys started reception. They knew each other before and I kind of joined their group. Mine and A's child became best friends and they have a beautiful friendship (this was said by other friends and teachers). However they always play very nicely with B's child too when they are together. We had playdates very often, every other week etc. I thought we were very good friends.

A&B arranged a playdate last year for their 2 boys to bond, without mine in between them, which would have been fine, but it was all done in secret and when I asked what their plans were and if they wanted to join me to the playground, both were very cagey and I only understood why when I saw them leave together to go to A's house. I felt very upset, more for the lying and secrecy, but also because I would never leave anyone out. To make it even worse, I couldn't really avoid them as I had a week long holiday already planned with B and our families and obviously mine and A's child are best friends.

They both apologised, but the trust had been broken and I have never felt at ease with them. I had a chat with B while on holiday, she said she considered me as good as a friend as A, she saw us as equals and I thought it got better with B, mainly as they went to A's house and it was obviously not down to B to invite me to someone else's house.

Roll on to a year later, mine and B's child have been at a holiday camp together, I picked B's child every evening from camp and took him home, and yesterday, I also took him out for dinner and then playdate at mine. The child mentioned he was having a playdate tomorrow with A's child, and when mum came to pick him up, he mentioned having a playdate with A's child and B was a bit flustered and said she hadn't arranged anything yet. It was confirmed to me today that they are indeed having a playdate, the 2 children + another one and again we weren't invited. B did mention having a playdate with one other child, but she did not mention A going to hers too.

AIBU to feel hurt and used? I am very sad that I was good enough to pick her child from camp, take him for dinner and playdate, but not good enough to be invited for a playdate with the other kids? And what hurts most is the lie by omission, I don't understand why she did not mention A going over tomorrow.

I do realise I need to step back from this friendship and I probably considered them more friends than they considered me, but how do I get over this?

I think friendships can be tricky when children are involved. Everyone's first loyalty is to their own child. Perhaps the 3 children don't play that well together or one wants to play alone with one of the others. The dynamics of 2 children v 3 are different, and preferences change for a variety of reasons. Even adults like to mix it up - I have friends I meet one on one but also in groups with others - if I want to meet one on one on a given occasion, I don't want the rest of the group to be invited.

I think it's weird you ever had a conversation where one told you the two of you are as good friends as she and the other mum. Who wouldn't say that even if it wasn't true? I don't tell my friends their position in my hierarchy of preferences / degree of closeness - thankfully we're not kids and no one has ever asked.

It sounds to me that A and B are aware of your sensitivities and have only 'lied' to avoid upsetting you. Why would you think your child should be invited to A and B's play date when your child and B's have been at a holiday camp together? What has the fact you've picked B's up every day hot to do with it. Presumably it was a friendly arrangement as you were able to pick up and B wasn't? It doesn't mean your child has to attend the play date as well.

You don't need to "step back". You need to be less sensitive and accept that A and B are entitled to make their own choices without it meaning you are less important / less appreciated.

They were already friends before you came along. I genuinely don't understand why you thought they wouldn't carry on meeting up without you there every time.

The reason they are lying is because they know your reaction.

Wait till neither A or B's child is friends with yours - you may lose the parents' friendship too. Friendships are often built on the fact you are going through common experiences - once these change, they can fade away.

I no longer meet up with any of the friends I had from when my kids were at primary school, other than one I knew previously. Or at least, only once every so often (hardly ever) in a group at the pub. I wouldn't meet one to one with any of them now.

Wait till neither A or B's child is friends with yours - you may lose the parents' friendship too. Friendships are often built on the fact you are going through common experiences - once these change, they can fade away.

I no longer meet up with any of the friends I had from when my kids were at primary school, other than one I knew previously. Or at least, only once every so often (hardly ever) in a group at the pub. I wouldn't meet one to one with any of them now.

@Onelifeonly has nailed it. This:

“Onelifeonly · Today 09:20
I think friendships can be tricky when children are involved. Everyone's first loyalty is to their own child. Perhaps the 3 children don't play that well together or one wants to play alone with one of the others. The dynamics of 2 children v 3 are different, and preferences change for a variety of reasons. Even adults like to mix it up - I have friends I meet one on one but also in groups with others - if I want to meet one on one on a given occasion, I don't want the rest of the group to be invited.

I think it's weird you ever had a conversation where one told you the two of you are as good friends as she and the other mum. Who wouldn't say that even if it wasn't true? I don't tell my friends their position in my hierarchy of preferences / degree of closeness - thankfully we're not kids and no one has ever asked.

It sounds to me that A and B are aware of your sensitivities and have only 'lied' to avoid upsetting you. Why would you think your child should be invited to A and B's play date when your child and B's have been at a holiday camp together? What has the fact you've picked B's up every day hot to do with it. Presumably it was a friendly arrangement as you were able to pick up and B wasn't? It doesn't mean your child has to attend the play date as well.

You don't need to "step back". You need to be less sensitive and accept that A and B are entitled to make their own choices without it meaning you are less important / less appreciated.”

I think something about making friends with other school parents can bring up memories of being at school and any social difficulties and hurts we suffered then (and most of us suffered plenty!). But your intensity about this is unhelpful to you and unhelpful to your DC. Referring to your friends as having lied is unhelpful. That kind of thinking will affect your friendships with them and there will be a knock-on effect for your DC and their friendships if you continue. Do you really want to be the reason why your son loses his friendships? Also, it’s good for your son to have a range of different friends. An intense social circle of 3 at all times is a bit limiting for him.

I think there’s something of the queen bee about your attitudes but it probably comes from a place of insecurity. You seem to have been quite comfortable when you thought your son and A’s son were besties, but still playing nicely with B’s son. And as PPs have noted, you went on holiday with B. Of course, you and your son are at the heart of things for you, but you’re not at the heart of things for other people, nor should you be. As a PP said, take the upsides from these friendships; take the good times and the laughs, but don’t require people to explain their social decisions to you or accuse them of lying when they make tactful excuses to spend a bit of time on their own. You will drive them away and make things difficult for your child.

I think that they probably feel that you make it too difficult for them to be open about their plans because you expect to be invited, or your child to be invited every time. They probably really like you and your child but you may be making this all quite hard work for them? You don't need to 'take a step back', you just need to chill out a bit and understand that they don't have to always tell you their plans.

@Katia2511

I think you sound lovely, and really care about your son and that social interaction. I’m afraid school Mum interaction can be really hard - particularly as children are involved and everyone will always put - what they perceive to be - their own/ their child’s best interests first. I’m still reeling from a Mum playdate comment last week where the Mum is ‘so cross with the school because only my DC will be in her DC’s class, and my DC doesn’t stretch her DC enough’. Thick skin is needed!

Hi op 3 is def tricky. I have 2 sisters always feel left out. School friends same. I agree its the sneaky way its done. I tried to get my daughter to have a few friends one feels lef5 out though if its 3

I would say not to over think it. I am in one mum group where there are three of us, the kids have known each other since babies but are now at different schools. Two of them are naturally friends, one is a bit more loud and not currently as in with the other two. Playdates are arranged in a way that reflects that. Mums also meet up on their own.

In the future I expect the kids' friendship will change when they go to secondary and maybe none of them will meet up, or another twosome will get on better. I follow what the kids want rather than force friendship on them.

Having like minded nice local friends is a precious life enhancing thing. I would be very slow to jeopardise that by demanding blood loyalty from each mum friend.

Still friends with the large school mum group I met they are fab. Most of our teens aren’t friends with each other any more and are now legally adults so have their own lives but that’s now irrelevant.

Thank you! That's awful 🤗🤗

Hi, yes, you've put it better than me, it is the sneakiness that upsets me. They never said it to my face to see my reaction, but as people said on here, maybe it's something in my attitude that I don't realise and I will take a proper look at myself.

I have been reading all the messages and it made me think about our friendship more, and if I am being honest, I don't think we would be friends if it wasn't for the kids, I just didn't think about it before like this. I have other mum friends who I can see have a long life relationship with and keeping in touch even when the kids grow up.

🫢 who says things like that.

I have made zero friends at Dd’s school and I’m a SAHM. Honestly it’s easier, I see it as facilitating my DD’s life more than anything else. I think a lot of these friendships are situational, some become lifelong friendships but most will fall away as children move on to different things. I understand you felt they were dishonest but reframe it as the relationship being just to facilitate your childs social life. You can still enjoy their company but it’s not for you it’s for them.

I was listening to a podcast about extremism and they talked about social exclusion and the psychological impact. They had a computer game where only one participant was real but thought that they were playing with two other real players (they weren’t). They had the programme engage the real player equally initially but then started to pass the ball less and less to the real player. The psychological impact was actually immense of feeling excluded. It is normal to feel extremely hurt when you feel excluded or like you are not part of the in-group. This isn’t a matter of logic it’s animal instinct about our place in a group. You do have to talk yourself out of it though because if it affects your behaviour it may lead to it being less pleasant to engage with you (I say this gently). The best thing you can do is brush it off and try to develop some perspective.

Op not easy having had 2 kids in school you dont miss school politics! I can see why people dont do playdates. On a plus I still meet mums years later which is nice kids are 18 now.

Do you work OP? You sound like you are spending a lot of time focussing on this situation. The other mums have obviously picked up that you are quite sensitive about it all and that’s why they are meeting up secretly. Take a bit of a step back and show you aren’t bothered.

I think they 'lied' as to spare your feelings knowing that you would get upset about it. It sounds like they are walking on eggshells to around you to avoid any unnecessary drama. They were friends before you came on to the scene. Friendship group of 3 is always going to difficult. They are entitled to be able to meet up without you and also entitled not to let you know. I would just relax a little and go with the flow otherwise you may lose both of them as friends.

Sorry OP, it hurts because of them being sneaky. It isnt about them meeting up, it is the lieing about it. I was in the same situation with a friendship group of 3. I ended up distancing myself and building a thick skin. I wasn't someone who would react as I understand it is nice to meet up one to one. I felt like I was being taken for granted with childcare and helped out all the while in the holidays.
For me it was when I was left out with a Christmas catch up. I found out accidentally and I realised I thought more about them then they did with me. I never said anything and when one of the ladies asked me another time to have her DD because she had an appointment, i knew she was going on a spa day. I said I was busy. She said, she wouldn't be able to go if I couldn't have her DD but I stuck to my guns. I would take a step back op but do it with a smile and hi.

So you don’t even like these people? Why the hooha, then?

I used to have this problem when my two were younger. I realised that not everyone is the same as me- ie one invited, everyone invited. I learnt to just let it go after situations of anger and upset!

Little boys don’t usually have one best friend, and tend to generally hang out with a few boys, often playing with different DC each break time.

We had issues with friends in the past where they thought my DC was being mean just because they wanted to play with other Dc too. In fact it got so claustrophobic with the DC and mum, who took massive offence, that I asked for them to be in separate classes.

I think you have invested too much in this friendship. Mums will socialise with other mums depending on who their young DC likes at that time. It seems like the other mum wants her DC to have a broader friendship group, or the DC does, and she knows you’ll take offence, so trying to keep it under the radar.

Just want to add though OP, that school mum relationships are awful.

I remember a friend of mine complained that my DS had been moved into the top set for maths, as now hers had less attention in a bigger class. A few other mums complained about my DC on loads of occasions; getting an award, getting picked for plays, on the rugby team. I’ve seen kids bumped from being goalie, demoted from a rugby team because another didn’t make the team, and their mum has had a hissy fit.

I do a regular activity with some past school mums, we are in our 50’s, and my DH complains about me hanging out with them as I always come back upset, like a 12 year old, as someone has been PA, left me out, or been bitching about me to the others.

They are a nest of vipers. Always walk out the room backwards.

I’d keep them as acquaintances, and find other friends. Honestly, they’ll stab you in the back at the drop of the hat to make sure little Johnny gets to be lead blade of grass in the school play.

Of course I like them, I considered them good friends. But now that I actually took a step back and analysed the situation more, I realised that we are quite different, not in a bad way, just different and if I had met them before having kids, I don't think we would have become friends.

@Katia2511 she may have been flustered because nothing HAD been arranged at that point and her kid had jumped the gun. I think you’re over-thinking a lot of this.

I have encouraged mine to make other friends because I agree with this, it'd be nice for my DC to have more friends for himself. And i meet up with other mums and he plays nicely with other kids, but when his BF is around, they act like a couple in love, and it is both of them, not just my DC.