Is this what she meant?

[StillSoLost]

I had a very emotionally abusive upbringing and years of therapy as a result. The therapy has given me an understanding of how it happened and tools to survive daily but not every eventuality can be covered so I still find myself floored by life on a very frequent basis.

I can manage alone but not around other people very well. As a result, I have very few friends, no close friends and have spent most of my adult life single. I've never worked anywhere for longer than 3 years because I don't like people getting too close or knowing me too well.

A couple of years ago, I started a relationship with a good and decent man but I am really struggling with it. I feel I am constantly having to talk myself down, practise positive self talk and look elsewhere for understanding. Sometimes, I've posted on here (under different names), sometimes, I've talked it through with someone else and sometimes I've discussed it with him.

Everyone says things that makes sense. Here and irl it seems that the issues are mine and in my head rather than anything he is doing wrong.

I know I don't need to be in a relationship but I have nothing really to show for my years on this planet other than existing in survival mode. My mum set out to destroy me and I can't let her win. I can't let her have been right about me.

One of the things she used to say to me was no one would ever love me. I wasn't pretty enough to be loved. I wasn't slim enough (even when I was underweight and my bones were showing I realised later). She criticised everything about me. She said that I also didn't have any of the qualities that would make up for being unattractive so I didn't even have my 'personality' to fall back on.

She said the best I could hope for was that someone would realise they couldn't get the sort of woman they wanted and settle for me.

I've never been afraid of being single or a relationship ending but I have always been scared of being settled for. Because of this, I've only had very superficial relationships so no one ever felt a need to stay with me when they no longer wanted to (eg through convenience or obligation).

A few weeks ago, we were discussing men who pursue much younger women prompted by a young (23) year old woman I know who began dating a man in his 50s and this led to me mentioning a previous ex of mine who would exaggerate the age difference between us to make it appear that I was younger than I was.

Anyway, my partner made a comment about those men being a bit sad and most men by the time they reached their 50s were a bit more realistic about the women they wanted to date. I asked him at the time if that meant he had settled for me because I'm a similar age to him. He said no and that he loved me etc but some men still chase young women when they've got no chance with them and then wonder why they're still single. He said the right things I think. I've read women on here saying similar but it just feels like lip service.

I've read similar on here about men becoming more 'realistic' about women they approach when they get older or realising what's actually important.

But isn't that the 'settling' my mum was talking about? Realising they can't have what they want and going for someone more attainable? I can't imagine everyone just feels settled for and I really do. It's just making me feel so sad and lost.

He sounds very caring and he hasn't settled for you

Thank you for your reply.

I just can't see how it's different though. I've tried rationalising it in every way I can and I still can't make it into a positive.

All I can hear is that he knows he wouldn't stand a chance with someone young and beautiful so he is with me instead.

In romantic (for want of a better word) relationships we are always making decisions to stay with our OH, that is a successful relationship.

I can relate a bit, my upbringing I learned that a man's attention and approval was pretty much the be all and end all. It is very hard to constantly have to counsel yourself, I understand that part. You are still buying in to the younger, prettier, thinner being 'better'

It sounds like you have a pretty good relationship and half of that work and decision making is you. You are doing well. I hope that doesn't sound too patronising. 💐

Yes, that's what I had too. The only thing that mattered was that I got married. The only barrier to that was that I was completely unloveable.

Two equally dominant and contradictory narratives running through my life.

My mum sabotaged a lot of the things I did to become independent. I didn't want to marry someone who wasn't going to be able to love me. Being loved was obviously not on the cards. So I had to find a way of making the best of the half life I was told i was going to have as a result. I certainly wasn't going to be settled for.

I got a first class degree and fashioned a sort of career for myself but, as many people say on here, men don't care about that. My mum tried to actively discourage me from university because she believed men would find that unattractive. I've read a lot of comments on MN that make it sound like a lot of women believe similar or that it might actually be true.

You are still buying in to the younger, prettier, thinner being 'better'

I am. Tbh, all those ships have sailed for me now but I also see it reinforced all around me. If my mother had been a lone voice, I might have been able to move past it.

I lost 1.5 stone last year for various reasons. I felt so uncomfortable with the compliments I received that I deliberately put the weight back on.

I don't feel comfortable if someone (including my boyfriend) expresses attraction towards me. I don't feel reassured by compliments. I feel very hostile, like I'm being blatantly lied to. It makes me feel very angry. I don't react angrily but I feel it. I find it offensive that someone would insult my intelligence in that way.

Your mother was a twisted abuser who systematically destroyed every shred of confidence and self-worth you ever had. And now, when people compliment you, it makes you feel that they are blatantly lying to you. You can't believe that anyone would like you or choose to be in a relationship with you.

What she did was despicable and wicked, and deliberately calculated to destroy you. And none of it was true.

Sadly, it's become true. I can't be loved because I don't know how to be loved. I just don't trust him or a word he says anymore. He feels like a liar to me. I'm constantly suspicious of him.

I can't bring myself to have sex with him anymore because I believe he isn't attracted to me. I still do, occasionally, because I'm only human, but I feel disgusted with myself afterwards for being weak and for the fact he'll think I believe him. I hate myself for making myself vulnerable in that way. I believe that he only wants sex with me because he's been turned on by someone/something else, and I'm just the one who is there.

He's largely stopped complimenting me. He's previously said he wants to but doesn't know what to do because he can see it causes me distress even though I don't say anything. He doesn't know whether he should do it anyway but he doesn't want to cause me distress.

On one hand, I feel like I'm causing all the problems. On the other hand, I believe everything I think and that I'm standing in the way of him being with someone he actually wants to be with.

I know that I'm pushing him away. But I feel overwhelmed and don't know what to do.

We were due to go out tonight but I've been ill all week and didn't feel up to it. I said he should go anyway but he said he'd rather stay home with me. I've been in bed all evening because I can't face watching a film with him.

He didn't stay in because he was worried about my reaction. I've never had an issue with him going out without me and there have often been times where I haven't felt confident enough to go out to something we've had tickets for and he's just gone alone. I don't want to ruin his life anymore than I feel I already am so I often take myself to bed early so he can spend the evening doing what he wants to do.

I know that sounds fucked up but it also feels right and obvious.

I remember another post you wrote. I feel you need to explain to him exactly what you've said on here. I feel so sad for you, really, just terribly sad but knowing time has passed and you still haven't explained to him clearly what's going on in your head, I feel even sadder for him. At least you know the reason for withholding and being distant but this is a really lovely man who you are treating this way and it's actually abuse.

You have quite significant mental health issues that need to be addressed. I really hope you seek the help you need. Life doesn't have to be this way, you are choosing a living hell for yourself.

But isn't that the 'settling' my mum was talking about? Realising they can't have what they want and going for someone more attainable? I can't imagine everyone just feels settled for and I really do. It's just making me feel so sad and lost.

Because of your mother you clearly have anxiety about the notion of being settled for and therefore are highly sensitive to anything that could be construed this way.

You understood your partner saying ‘most men in their 50s are more realistic’ to mean they are more realistic about who they could get, as opposed to what I think he actually meant, which is, they are more realistic about what they want in a partner.

They realise that superficial attraction isn’t enough to sustain a real relationship. They lack shared values and experiences with these younger women and crave a deeper connection. It isn’t just about physical attraction (although that will still be part of it) but also intellectual, emotional and spiritual connection.

Older women are no more ‘attainable’ to these men than younger women. In fact it is usually the opposite. Men who habitually seek out younger women do so because they know they are easier to fool, to manipulate, to treat poorly. They usually find women lacking in self esteem and confidence, that way they can mistreat them and then gaslight them into believing that all men behave that way. Once these women mature, they realise their self worth and that they can do so much better. Older women are far more likely to know their worth already and, crucially, what is acceptable behaviour from their partner. They are far less obtainable, in fact, because they will not even entertain the idea of dating these men.

Your mum dripped pure poison in your ear OP and you must find a way to try to rub out the mark she left on your psyche. For very inexplicable reasons she wanted to make sure to ruin your chances of being happy in yourself and in life and you must constantly remind yourself when you think was she right about this? That she was right about NOTHING. It sounds like you have a sensible man. Don’t let her past poison ruin your present and future.

No. “Realistic” means they know a relationship needs more than some shallow Barbie-looking person. Attraction grows in more mature people by getting to know someone more deeply. ALL people are flawed.

don’t let these kind of words twist around in your mind and create a trap he can’t get out of, a game he can’t win, no matter what he says.

I suggest therapy, OP, to reframe these awful words. Don’t make beliefs of them. They’re not true. Don’t let harmful words define your life.

You have experienced a lot of emotional pain which is now creating this rupture between you. It must be very painful for him OP. Don’t let your mother’s abuse extend through you to wound him too and therefore increase the sadness in your life. I know it’s not as easy as that, but that’s the reality.

It sounds as if he is a good man who loves you. Don’t give in to your mother’s poison. Ask yourself the question: how can I reconnect with him? And think of ways. Talk to him. Only you can take this step through the fog of imposed supposed unlovability. But he’s there waiting for you.

All I can hear is that he knows he wouldn't stand a chance with someone young and beautiful so he is with me instead.

Do you consider that you've settled for your partner because you can't score a millionaire fitness model in his mid-20s? Or are you perhaps a bit more realistic about your options in life?

He's saying men who chase younger women are ridiculous and most men prefer someone closer to their own age.

I imagine what he meant was that some men mature and don’t want a woman a lot younger than they are because they would not be compatible. They want someone at a similar life stage who has had similar life experiences and has similar expectations for their time together going forward. That isn’t settling. Personally I think that type of relationship enriches life a lot more smoothly than the constant balancing that has to be managed when there is a big age gap

whichwayisup

I've tried to explain it but I don't think he understands it really. He hears the words but he can't 'feel' it. Which is how it should be. I know that what I think and feel is wrong even though I believe it at the same time. He's even explained things in really blunt, simple sentences so that I can remember them and include them in my self talk but there's always a little voice telling me he's lying to me.

I know it's my mum who was lying because, despite telling me no one would ever love me or find me attractive, when I became good friends with a gay woman 15 years ago, she also told me that this woman didn't really like me and only wanted to be friends with me because she fancied me. So I know that none of it makes sense.

I also know that it's abuse. And I hate that. I try to minimise the impact of my feelings on him as much as I can.

Sometimes, I just stay very quiet and sit with the thoughts and feelings myself but then I worry that he experiences that as 'the silent treatment'. Sometimes, I don't go out because I can't face being around other people but I worry he experiences that as me putting a downer on the night but I know that when I've tried to push myself to go out when I feel like that, i/we have had to come home early (which does put a downer on the night) because I can't cope and have huge anxiety which I'm only able to manage by getting away from the situation. Sometimes, he goes out anyway and sometimes he also stays in. But I wish he wouldn't. I wish he'd go out anyway. Sometimes, I feel angry but I never take it out on him because I know it's not him I'm angry at it. I'm angry at myself for not being good enough and for not feeling differently.

You understood your partner saying ‘most men in their 50s are more realistic’ to mean they are more realistic about who they could get, as opposed to what I think he actually meant, which is, they are more realistic about what they want in a partner.

Yes, that is what he meant.

Thank you, and to the other people who have explained similar.

It's hard because I know that's what he meant but when the anxiety kicks it, I can't access that knowledge. It's forgotten and I'm just operating in fight or flight mode.

I get caught up in my head and the ladders are pulled up and I just run around in my own mind and I can't find the way out. So thank you.

My dh was/is a bit like you, even after 30 years of being utterly loved he still seems surprised that I actually love him, and don't stay with him for whatever reason he happens to have currently concocted in his head I would have to stay with him (there isn't one, I'm fiercely independent and always have been, I just love him!).

I used to find it annoying as well as slightly baffling. In the end I told him to 'fake it till he makes it'. Act like he is loved, and pretend he believes it. He doesn't always manage it, but it is slowly getting better. He is really, really hard to express love to, he always undermines any expressions of love you give him.

Our relationship works because I'm a weird fish and don't take it personally. I know I love him and that he loves me, so when he rejects me he's not rejecting me, he's rejecting himself. It usually passes after a while.

He's gotten a lot better since we had the dc, he has had to accept that they love him absolutely.

Your posts are very sad. What a lot of damage has been done. Please please go into therapy and try not to pass this damage on or punish your partner when he’s being so loving and supportive.

CatherinedeBourgh

I know I love him and that he loves me, so when he rejects me he's not rejecting me, he's rejecting himself.

Yes, that's definitely it for me too. My partner sounds very similar to you too. I know he feels hurt by it at times and probably a bit frustrated that nothing he says has any impact but he also doesn't take it personally.

Like you, my dh always tells me I could get someone 'better'. FWIW, in 30 years I have never once thought I would want someone else. I love him, and that's that. I don't love him because of a checklist that he checks more boxes on than anyone else. The 'list' only has one checkbox: are you dh? and only he can check that box. End of.

The difference is that I wouldn't want that.

I can see that he isn't perfect but, as an overall package, he's everything I want.

I just don't see how he can look at me without wishing I were more this or less that.

It's hard to explain. We were talking about unrealistic portrayals of things in films that annoy us. He said that one that really irritates him is how, in a film, a woman will go to bed and wake up with "beautiful eye make up" in tact. I know it sounds stupid (and i also know what I'd say to someone saying this to me) but it's that sort of innocuous comment that plays on my mind. I didn't really wear make up anyway (can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear) so he was never going to look at me and think I had "beautiful eye make up" but he clearly notices it on other women in a way that I don't. I feel I can't compare or compete with that.

I'd rather take myself out of the race than fail. So I stopped wearing make up at all.

I know that comes from my mum too. If I ever did anything with my hair, or tried to wear a dress to look nice (as I was expected to), she'd stil criticise me. I remember times when I'd get ready to go out with her somewhere and then she'd look at me and tell me, as we were leaving, that I couldn't go after all because she'd be embarrassed to be seen with me.

It wasn't because I was dressed inappropriately. On one occasion, when I was about 22, we were supposed to be going to her boyfriend's sister's birthday barbecue. Her boyfriend's son had recently been released from a short prison sentence and I'd have been meeting him for the first time. She cooed about what a lovely lad he was, but I wasn't allowed to go at the last minute because she arbitrarily didn't like the dress I was wearing after all and I didn't look nice in it. Even though I'd checked it was ok with her first. She said she'd be embarrassed to be seen with me. So that is also something I'm very conscious of - people being embarrassed to be seen with me in public.

I can't have photos taken because I was a very shy child who was overly critical of my own appearance. When I was young, my mum cuty haor very short like a boys and then laughed at me because i looked like a boy. There was a photo of me taken one Christmas when I was about 17. I thought I looked quite nice on it. I was actually surprised because I think it was the first time I'd seen myself and thought I looked nice. She saw it, laughed and said it was an awful photo of me and what did I look like?

I still have a very strong visceral reaction to having my photo taken now even 30 years on. Most people know not to do it. But it also means there are virtually no photos of my partner and me. He loves taking photos of people, his friends, his family, days out but never even tries now when we're out together because he knows I don't like it. There's no record of 'us'. I know that's my fault.

If the word used was ‘real’ instead of ‘realistic’ would you think of it differently? I think that’s more likely what she meant. Two people of a similar age may have a more real(realistic) relationship because of shared experiences in life. A male friend that I know who was separated and was looking at online dating, said that he was only looking for a partner of a similar age because he wanted someone who would relate to and share memories of tv programmes/music acts from the same era.

I see the point you are trying to make but you've taken the words out of context.

My mum said that my best hope was to be settled for by someone who'd realised they couldn't get who they wanted.

He said that most older men are more realistic about the sort of woman they are trying to date meaning (presumably) in their expectations.

The term realistic wasn't being applied to the nature of the relationships themselves.