Is this what she meant?

[StillSoLost]

I had a very emotionally abusive upbringing and years of therapy as a result. The therapy has given me an understanding of how it happened and tools to survive daily but not every eventuality can be covered so I still find myself floored by life on a very frequent basis.

I can manage alone but not around other people very well. As a result, I have very few friends, no close friends and have spent most of my adult life single. I've never worked anywhere for longer than 3 years because I don't like people getting too close or knowing me too well.

A couple of years ago, I started a relationship with a good and decent man but I am really struggling with it. I feel I am constantly having to talk myself down, practise positive self talk and look elsewhere for understanding. Sometimes, I've posted on here (under different names), sometimes, I've talked it through with someone else and sometimes I've discussed it with him.

Everyone says things that makes sense. Here and irl it seems that the issues are mine and in my head rather than anything he is doing wrong.

I know I don't need to be in a relationship but I have nothing really to show for my years on this planet other than existing in survival mode. My mum set out to destroy me and I can't let her win. I can't let her have been right about me.

One of the things she used to say to me was no one would ever love me. I wasn't pretty enough to be loved. I wasn't slim enough (even when I was underweight and my bones were showing I realised later). She criticised everything about me. She said that I also didn't have any of the qualities that would make up for being unattractive so I didn't even have my 'personality' to fall back on.

She said the best I could hope for was that someone would realise they couldn't get the sort of woman they wanted and settle for me.

I've never been afraid of being single or a relationship ending but I have always been scared of being settled for. Because of this, I've only had very superficial relationships so no one ever felt a need to stay with me when they no longer wanted to (eg through convenience or obligation).

A few weeks ago, we were discussing men who pursue much younger women prompted by a young (23) year old woman I know who began dating a man in his 50s and this led to me mentioning a previous ex of mine who would exaggerate the age difference between us to make it appear that I was younger than I was.

Anyway, my partner made a comment about those men being a bit sad and most men by the time they reached their 50s were a bit more realistic about the women they wanted to date. I asked him at the time if that meant he had settled for me because I'm a similar age to him. He said no and that he loved me etc but some men still chase young women when they've got no chance with them and then wonder why they're still single. He said the right things I think. I've read women on here saying similar but it just feels like lip service.

I've read similar on here about men becoming more 'realistic' about women they approach when they get older or realising what's actually important.

But isn't that the 'settling' my mum was talking about? Realising they can't have what they want and going for someone more attainable? I can't imagine everyone just feels settled for and I really do. It's just making me feel so sad and lost.

The difference is that I wouldn't want that.

I think you need to give your partner some credit. What he said can be fully truly wiithout meaning he would prefer to be with a younger woman.

I can look at a handsome man in his 30s and think, wow, that guy is spectacularly good looking, and also understand that there’s no way he would be interested in a late 40s woman. FWIW I have decent self-confidence. And even if this out-of-my-league guy unaccountably showed interest in me, would I throw over my boyfriend, who I love, for him? No, I wouldn’t actually want that.

I am both realistic about the fact that there’s a category of partner that’s not realistic for me, and I wouldn’t want someone in that category even if it became realistic. I imagine your partner feels similarly.

I think you need some therapy. I'm single in my 50s, and part of it is because I was told no one could love me. Last night I saw photos of me in my teens and I wasn't fat and ugly as I had believed - and also, I wouldn't be catching up with friends from my childhood if I were that terrible a person, because they have a choice about being in touch these days. But a little part of me still thinks, it's just because they're kind and feel sorry for me being alone. That bit is just my mother's voice though, and you can learn to ignore it.

Ah, I see, sorry. She may well have meant what you thought she meant., which would
have been said purely to be nasty.
Please know that it’s just not true. One of many untrue things she would have said to you, I’m sure.

Thank you. She did mean it in exactly the way she said it.

Everything about the way I was raised was to make as small in insignificant as possible so that I was inoffensive to a future husband. Given that I didn't have the looks to attract someone, I needed to make sure someone would settle for me and not be put off by who I was.

She took me to school when I was choosing my GCSEs and tried to get them to make me do childcare and typing instead of 10 GCSEs because they'd be more useful to me as a woman.

Fortunately, the male head of year told her it was my choice and I should be aimijg for university. She wasn't happy about that either because it might lead to a career and get in the way of me getting married. She stopped a lot of my hobbies because a man wouldn't tolerate a wife who did x, y or z. I was still in my teens at the time.

Everything I did was for a hypothetical husband which was ridiculous considering at the same time she was telling me no one would love me.

I know you've had therapy you found helpful at the time, but it's perfectly OK to dip in and out of it as circumstances changed. You don't want a general counsellor with 6 sessions, look at longer term. Wishing you all the best.

So much of this is so tragic. You explain your thoughts very clearly here. They are disordered but understandable given your past. I think you need to go back to therapy and work out new ways to deal with your trauma & stop your mum ruining your life.

Your boyfriend sounds like a good one. He is patient and caring if you. Can you see that's a reflection of how much he DOES want to be with you??

OP, if you had someone following you around every day, telling you that you’re ugly, stupid, [insert other insult]; you would find that your self esteem gets lower and lower and the more it happened, the more you would believe it. That is what you are doing to yourself. You have taken over your mum’s role and are now doing that job for her.

Your first step is to try and distance yourself from that negativity. When the thoughts come, label them - ‘oh hello mum, it’s you again telling me that……’ Ensure you realise what is happening and don’t take those thoughts at face value as your own. Thoughts are just that, they are not fact. The thought is not the problem, it is the meaning you attach to it that is causing you the pain.

Please seek further therapy as your life doesn’t have to be this way. Your mum has taken so much from you already, don’t let her take this relationship too.

I can't have Brad Pitt, does that mean my husband is not worthy of my love?

He can't marry a rich supermodel either, or even someone more accessible like the pretty local news presenter he fancies 😂. That doesn't mean he's "settled" for me, it means he's CHOSEN me out of the pool available to him. And that's fine. I chose him too.

Everyone choose their partner due to there being a balance which suits them. Some people value certain characteristics more than others - whether that's hair, teeth, literacy, language ability, height, kindness, etc. No-one is all of everything all the time. I think you need to work on letting go of the idea that if you're not "perfect" it means someone is settling for you. It doesn't , it means they're choosing you despite any perceived slight negative or less than ideal trait. That's what being realistic means - the knowledge that no one is perfect and so we choose what is important to us in a partner.

Who cares what your stupid mum said? She was wrong about everything, absolutely everything.

Time to put all her horrible programming in the bin, back to therapy I’d say.

OP, what type of therapy have you had and for how long?
I suspect you have suffered from Complex PTSD which can take decades of therapy to undo.
Can you Google repetition compulsion and structural disocciation.
You seem to have a part of your brain/psyche that is hell bent on sabotaging your relationship.
Unfortunately that is a common result of childhood trauma where instead of being able to lash out at your evil mother your psyche splits and you create a self destructive part which attacks your normal self.
Good luck.

@StillSoLost

Please go back to therapy. Maybe look into psychodynamic therapy, and for a reasonable length of time.

All these voices in your head, all these things you "know" and "can't rationalise any other way" - these are still the echoes and imprints of all the toxic bullshit your abusive mother subjected you to.

None of them are true, but they're the filters you look at the world through, because when you were younger and relied on your mother for survival, that was what your child's brain understood to be safest for you.

You know all the things she told you weren't true, but despite knowing it consciously, a lot of them are still there in your subconscious, creating these thoughts. That's what therapy will help you draw out, separate from yourself, and then hopefully create new and healthier narratives that you can move on with life with.

Good luck!

I’m really sorry your mother was so awful. That cruelty is just breathtaking. It’s not surprising that you struggle with how you think others see you and having photos taken etc (and the rest).

Obviously there’s no point in strangers on the internet trying to diagnose her but she obviously had something deeply wrong with her MH, possibly a personality disorder and the ironic thing is that she was probably very jealous of you instead of feeling protective and loving towards you. You deserved so much better. None of the toxic stuff she put in your head was about you. It was all about her.

I honestly think that instead of settling into familiar feelings of how you feel and all your internal thoughts which are very well thought out, deep and brilliantly expressed, you need to stop that pattern. Stop the internal thoughts. You have full control of what thoughts you have. Stop the internal spiralling which feels awful but feels familiar, comforting and is actually just continually picking at your horrific scar.

The number one way to do that is to think about how he is feeling. As soon as you feel yourself spiralling stop it immediately, start asking yourself different questions. Focus on his feelings or stop and do something that makes you feel good , that'll be different for everyone but taking yourself away to sit silently with your excruciating internal voice is just allowing your mother's abuse to perpetuate. You actually do have control here, you need to take it. No-one is going to make this better for you. There is no magic wand just hard hard work by you to change your thoughts, change your internal voice.

My mum set out to destroy me and I can't let her win.

But you're letting her win OP.

I hope that very soon you will see what he says and shows is true. YOU attracted this thoroughly decent man, who shows you he loves and cares for you. After the terrible abuse you suffered at the hands of your mother, you deserve to be happy now. You may need help to allow yourself to put the past where it belongs, so you can enjoy your future. I wish you luck and will imagine you living your best life soon.

Exactly what I was going to say too. Jealousy.

The jealousy is an odd one. I think she was in a way. She had a serious accident at 17 and was hospitalised for a good while. She spent her 18th and 21st brithdays in hospital. She was disabled as a result. Her life was severely limited at the time and, to a significant but lesser degree, afterwards. She has always lived with pain and had reduced mobility as a result, which I understand would have been horrific for her and she didn't deserve any of that. It also ruined her chances of staying in her chosen career and she had to leave it. So it turned her life upside down.

So I think she resented my youth, freedom, opportunities and able bodiedness. Part of the sabotage was intended to isolate me from others and limit my life chances/choices because thats what she had experienced and I think she really needed to know that someone else understood the mental anguish she had gone through. But she was also worried no one would love her and all she wanted to do was be married. I think, when I was younger, my flaws played heavily on her mind and I think she genuinely believed I was unloveable and was genuinely fearful she'd be 'stuck with me forever' because I overheard her saying that exact thing to my dad when I was still in primary school.

Whenever her sabotage worked, she would say very matter of factly, "Well now you know what it was like for me." Except I didn't. She suffered a horrific accident that should never have happened. Her parents were wonderful and sacrfiied their own lives to support her. Whereas she created my problems deliberately. And revelled in the mental anguish she caused me. She enjoyed it.

I know what you mean but I don't think that's fair really..

Every single day of my life is a struggle and I've prioritised the things I needed to.

I'm nearly 50 and, for the first time, I've just secured my first permanent job. It's the first time I've ever felt safe enough anywhere to commit to staying there. I've always worked but I've never been able to commit without giving nyself and my employer a get out clause.

This isn't just a case of worrying what my partner thinks. It's a poison I work hard to neutralise every day.

OP I was saying this in a positive way.

You having that quote in your head.....hopefully getting your fighting spirit back. 🙂

Your childhood sets your coordinates for how you navigate the world as adult. Your mother has left you seeing everything through her own messed up perspective. She sounds like she needed you to be worse off than her to make her feel better about her own life. It’s not normal for parents to be like this and it’s horrible to unpick as an adult. I’m 45 and still trying. Abuse feels almost comfortable and someone being kind feels wrong.

I promise that there are some genuinely kind people out there and most people won’t see you as defective. The way your mother treated you was everything to do with her and nothing to do with who you were.

It’s worth going back to counselling and finding someone who deals with childhood trauma. Reparenting can help. It’s difficult and takes time but you can get to a place of acceptance of yourself. Good luck OP.

@StillSoLost congratulations on your permanent position!! Praise yourself fot that. Don't skip over the achievement. Do something to celebrate

Maybe he does know that so what? You either make the decision to trust that he loves you or not. Picking away at this winter do you any favours

As adults we are free to make choices. We make choices every day.

If your partner is with you it's because they choose you. Sometimes I think it's more powerful to say 'I choose you' rather than 'I love you'. We can love people without even really liking them.

Someone can choose you even if you not beautiful (whatever that means to you or them). They do it repeatedly. Every single day they choose you. Just as you are.

At the moment you are completely controlled by things your mum said. You have internalised her comments so that they seem like your own thoughts and you accept them as facts. You also believe that everybody else will see you as she saw you, she is your protype for relationships. Unfortunately your mother is a really horrible damaged person and this has left you with a skewed view of other people. You probably know all this but it is worth saying again.
Have you tried something like CBT where you challenge these thoughts?
Firstly carry a notebook around with you and write down any thoughts you have which you feel stem from your mum, this will help you be aware when it is happening and help to separate the thoughts from yourself. They are things she said, not what you think, not what other people think and definitely not facts.
Then start filling out CBT challenging thoughts sheets, there are lots available online. something like this https://positive.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Dysfunctional-Thought-Record.pdf
It really is a matter of challenging the thoughts regularly and chipping away at the negativity your mum has burdened you with. Your mum spent years poisoning your view of yourself with her nasty twisted comments so it will take a while to undo the damage but it can be done - just keep chipping!
I would also say show your partner this thread so that he can understand better how you feel and preferably get him to help you with the thought sheets. It will be difficult at first but you will start to feel better about yourself.
Sorry to prattle on if you've already tried this I just feel that thoughts like these need a lot of undoing

Thank you for the replies. I have been reading. You've all been so kind and helpful.

CantDecideAUsename
I know you are right about her needing me to feel bad about myself and my own life to make her feel better about herself and hers. There was evidence of hierarchical self esteem in a lot of what she said and did.

One thing she did (especially post divorce) was to befriend people she felt were beneath her - women who she perceived were less attractive, less well off, less well educated. She spoke very fondly of them but in the way some people speak about the 'less fortunate'. I think she felt confident they couldn't look down on her because she was already above. If that makes sense. She was always the first one to offer to help, visit people in hospital and to be benevolent and, whenever I met any of them, I was always told what a kind and good woman she was.

That sounds like a horrible way to talk about/think of people. So I'm sorry for that but it was how it seemed.

So I completely understand it was her. I could tell you exactly what the events were in her life that caused her own trauma, I understand completely why I was a problem for her, and her motivations. I haven't seen her for well over a decade and I also know I'm adding to the narrative. I'm the one keeping it alive. But I completely believe it. Superficially, I know what I'm good at, I understand my strengths, I know what I do that is good and what my flaws are. But I feel like it's all a game of smoke and mirrors.

I have a first class psychology degree, post grad qualifications and trauma training because part of my job involves working with children who've experienced trauma. I understand the neuroscience of trauma (on a basic level at least), I know how to regulate my emotions and how ro reframe and I'm doing it all the time every day.

I have contacted therapists but only one got back to me. And I couldn't make the times she offered. What I'm most scared of is the length of time it would take. I'm nearly 50. I don't feel I have long enough left to do it, and I'm scared of achieving peace and realising how much life I've lost along the way to it.