DH forcing affection during an argument

[XMissPlacedX]

DH (44) and I (40) have been together 7 years, married for 5. He has never been violent or threatening towards me and is generally very loving.

Last night during a reasonably heated disagreement dh turned towards me, held out his arms and walked towards me to give me a hug, I told him not to touch me.

He continued to walk towards me and tried to put his arms around me and I told him to take his hands off me, he wouldn’t.

He continued to try and hug me despite me repeating over and over again ( each time getting louder) , in the end I must have asked him a minimum of 15 times to take his hands off me
before he finally let go of me …
Oh but not before saying I was ‘ mental for shouting so loud and making something out of nothing ‘

What do you think he was trying to achieve by ignoring my request ?

"Don't touch me" is something you should only ever have to say once.

Option 3) tell him how it felt from your pov. If he takes it on board and promises not to do it again, good, if he doesn't get it or belittles you, then leave.
The best way to know wtf he was thinking at the time, is to ask him. Tired of arguing maybe and wanted it to stop? In which case, just shut up and walk away is more effective, his method was weird if that's what he was after. Has he done other things over the 7 years that could appear controlling, or is this a first? Was alcohol involved with him or both of you at the time?

in the end I must have asked him a minimum of 15 times to take his hands off me

How many times does she have to say "get off me" before it stops being a loving moment?

Oh 16 at least according to hcm’s ‘narrative’

I get this, at times of extreme emotion, I hate being touched, and that's without a history of assault. Even if DH said in an argument it's all my fault please forgive me, I'd still need to decompress. It doesn't matter why, if you don't want a hug, you don't have to have a hug.

This

She said no, repeatedly.

That may be the case but when someone says 'don't touch me' you stop. At once. And given the difference in size and strength between most men and women, an unwanted hug can feel overwhelming and threatening, especially to a woman who is a rape and DV survivor. He should have stopped straight away when she told him to.

SHE SAID NO!!!

What do you think he was trying to achieve by ignoring my request ?

Demonstrating that he can do what he likes to you no matter what you say. There's an implied threat: next time "doing what he likes to you" might involve his dick.

I see from your updates that you are considering leaving. Do so.

if you don't want a hug, you don't have to have a hug

My five-year-old nephew understands this. What's the OP's grown-ass "D"H's excuse for not understanding this?

What kind of man doesn't respect his wife's "no" the first time she gives it? It's not her responsibility to train him in basic respect for others' boundaries. If he doesn't have that, she should leave to protect herself.

No, he should know when to stop, which is when she said the first "no".

I really can’t fathom the posters here insisting that his actions could be interpreted positively (let alone the ‘you’re lucky to have him’ gem - JFC).

Yes, it’s possible in a loving relationship to try to defuse an argument with physical touch - of course it is. But when a man is being told to stop FIFTEEN TIMES - and not in a jokey, ‘I’m coming around’ way, but in a ‘I don’t want to be touched, leave me alone’ way - and he still keeps coming, and he still puts himself physically in her space and imposes himself on her, the message he is giving is not ‘I love you, let’s make up’.

It’s ‘I want you to shut up now, I don’t care about your boundaries, I’m letting you know that I’m bigger and stronger than you and you can’t stop me doing what I want’. But I’m doing it in a way that has the superficial cover of being ‘loving’, so you’ll just look mad and unreasonable when you react badly to it.

To do that in any relationship is horrible; to knowingly do it to a woman who’s suffered from abuse and sexual violence is fucking outrageous.

@EnjoythemoneyJane that's how I was interpreting the hug, not as a genuine hug as the looks on his face was almost menacing.

I've gone onto the the entitled to website to see what help I would get as a single parent ( I work full time ) and it seems I would be ok. The benefit comes to £806 per month which covers a 2 bed house in the area I would like ( house is up for £800). It's quite a run down area but friendly and lots of mine and her dads family live there.

I've got a good credit rating so wouldn't have an issue with the tenancy, and the school I would want my daughter to go to is covered in the catchment too. I have enough for the deposit , but maybe not any furniture until dh can release the £10k I put into the house when I moved in 4 years ago to extend.

No the kids didn't see it ( reply to pp) , they were thankfully out at a friends.

My dd has a week left in her current term, so I'll let her do her last week in school and then head to my parents to stay as a base whilst me and dd view some houses ( there are 3 in the same area ) she will enjoy that.

Im not worried about dh hurting me in this time ( he has never been violent in the 7 years I've known him). If he seems to be out of his cocky mood in that time I have screen shot some of your responses to the 'hug' and will send them to him, that way I can give him my perspective without him interrupting me ( he knows I use mumsnet). So far I've not had the chance to do that as he has been either in denial or defensive ( not sure which).

What are you hoping to gain by showing him screenshots if you already decided to leave?

Does he often interrupt you when you are speaking or putting your side of things? Does he usually get his way by doing this?

💐

@Catoo it's a difficult one, I really want him
to understand what he has done, we genuinely had a lovely ( what I thought was equal ) marriage, and this was the first time he has ever used his psychical strength to over power me. He is a nice man ( albeit not for me ) and I want him to learn that this isn't okay to do to people. Also some of the replies have managed to articulate how I feel better than I can.

To answer your other question, he usually wins his arguments temporarily by dismissing or minimising what I say at first, but usually comes down off his high horse and apologises reasonably quickly.

He knows I'm fierce about my autonomy which is the main issue here, he knows why and that my walls may be a little higher than most. But I thought he understood and seemed to treat me accordingly ( if that makes sense ). It seemed as though he snapped and thought 'fuck it ' I'm gonna really piss her off this time.

Getting your 10k back won't be easy I imagine.

@Julyshouldbesunny I'm praying it won't be as that's the bit that will make mine and dd's new house a 'home' ( furniture etc).

I really don't think he is the kind of person that would keep it from me, we always agreed that if we ever split I would have it back.

Don't expect him to understand your view.
Don't assume he won't use physical strength even more.
Don't explain til you away and safe and even then do not expect him to agree your points.
If he knows you leaving he could react in unexpected way. I e lash out. Leave safely.

I am really pissed off with all the minimising posts on here about “he only wanted to calm things down”

asking (not forcing) for a hug might be a tactic to defuse an argument but ignoring bodily autonomy and 15 requests to stop touching the OP is abusive behaviour.

I am so glad you have the strength to leave. Getting support from your family and friends will help so much. Best of luck, OP, you are being a great example for your daughter, you would never want her to stay with a man who forces his will on her.

I think maybe he just wanted the argument to end and to make things better.

That wasn't the way to do it!

OP something about this incident has immediately changed the way you feel about this man. Trust your instinct on this.

There is no way he doesn’t already know he crossed a line. His smug attitude shows this. He seems to think you have to suck this up. Maybe because you moved leaving everyone behind, and possibly without much financial security or a job, to be with him.

I think it’s unlikely that a few comments from strangers on the internet will humble him into seeing the error of his ways. And I think it could just anger and irritate him that you’ve posted about it.

Agree with PP that safety comes first - not trying to prove anything to him. You know him best though and if you want to give him the chance then I would tell him you need a serious chat about the disagreement and what he did to end it. Ensure he knows it is very serious. I would maybe start by asking how he views what happened and leave a huge silence for him to fully fill. If he is arrogant and minimising I would just end the chat there with ‘OK. I just wanted your perspective thanks’ and leave the room. And then go back to plan A which is getting away. If he fairly immediately says he realises he was wrong perhaps you can work through it. But again I would say, don’t ignore your gut.

💐

but maybe not any furniture until dh can release the £10k
Hopefully he will but plan for him not giving it. Was it ringfenced legally or could it be decided it was a gift instead, ie what proof do you have for reclaiming it.

As for furniture - lots of charity shops or second hand/antique shops have good quality furniture, or try your local auction house. Or venture into the weirdness of Freecyle and Facebook.

Pots and Pans or soft furnishings - Home Bargins, B&M or The Range have decent stuff.

You don't need brand new to create a home. A home is you and your DD together.

However, I do think you need to be careful in telling him you are leaving and why. Definitely wait until you are out of the house so he can't physically block you. Good luck, and I wish you the strength you need