Shit - he's gonna invite his mum.

[CrumpledBankNote]

So I had a chat with my BIL earlier in the week.

We've booked a holiday. BIL was hinting at maybe booking the same place and coming with his wife and their kids.

I like hanging out with my BIL & SIL. Their kids are lovely and we spend a lot of time together usually.

I text DH and said, why don't we invite them to join the same resort.

He's said yeah ok let's talk about it later. It's his DB.

The sudden horror just dawned on me that's he going to invite his mother. He's going to suggest it because she's a master manipulator, if she gets wind that we are all going together she will lay the guilt trip forevermore and demand her place too.

I won't go into the detail but I cannot be around her longer than a few hours.

What's worse - most of the time he can't stand her either. So it'll be horrific from start to finish if she comes.

What stock phrases can I use that make me sound entirely reasonable but also draw the line firmly at me not going away with her.

So far I have "she's just not someone that I would choose to spend THAT much time with" and "I don't think you could manage her for two weeks either". But I need something more diplomatic that you can't argue with.

@CoffeandTiaMaria Yes he can - but she's very manipulative and he's got a childhood of trauma stacked up against him.

"You need to be aware that if you invite your mother, I wont be going and neither will BIL and SIL, you can take her own your own" and MEAN IT.

When he suddenly finds he will not have 3 other adults there to dilute her, you may well find that he down. And if he doesnt book somewhere else for you and the ILs and kids. You will only have to do this once I suspect.

Suggest to him that neither he nor BIL mentions it to his mum so it is clear that you don't want her to come.

Sweet Jesus. That means there are at least two MNers whose MILs tagged along on their honeymoon.

You need to be quick and sneaky here @CrumpledBankNote before your DH gets any ideas about inviting his Mum. Talk to your BIL and get him to talk to your DH about not inviting their DM, if it comes from you you'll get the blame, if his DB says no then it's between brothers. Since your BIL can't stomach her either I'm sure he'd be happy to help

This makes me laugh a bit because it reminds me of when I first got together with my now husband. It was coming up to his 30th birthday and I wanted to take him away on holiday. I asked his mum about going to Netherlands (he is half dutch) and Amsterdam as he's not been there.

She was delighted that I wanted to go to Netherlands and said she would come too.

I was horrified and quicky mumbled something about keeping options open. Who invites themselves on holiday like this? Outrageous! I was planning on spending most of my time shagging her hot son, didn't want to have a third wheel hanging around, least of all his mum!!!

In the end, I gave him 3 options and he chose the poolside package holiday to Tenerife for a week and we had an amazing time, shagged him senseless and married him a few years later.

She's visiting this week. She is still on about wanting to go to Netherlands on holiday. We are very, very tight for money, so likely not going to happen!

@GCAcademic It's not normal is it!!!!!!

In that case your only option is to call his bluff - tell him that's a great idea! He can spend some much needed quality time with his mum! Suggest he takes her for shopping/lunch/dinner while you visit the Botanic Garden/check yourself into the hotel spa/whatever. If he tries to suggest that you take her to that thing with you you very nicely and sincerely say "oh no Colin she is your mum you need to spend more time with her and this was your idea!"

The thing with people who will respond to guilt trips is that they are always looking for someone else to be the bad guy/one to blame. So don't give it to him. Call his bluff. My MIL is a lovely woman, very laid back and happy. When we travel with her or spend a long time visiting her I still take myself off for a lot of alone time because I have a small social battery that gets drained. It isn't an affront to anyone's relatives so if she somehow does end up coming then make sure you go for lots of walks alone, lock yourself away to read books etc.

Say she will need to holiday with own friends /relatives of similar age etc as her -as you will all be doing things that won't suit her for whatever reason - mobility, interest, transport, age group etc. Ask if she has already made her own holiday plans with whoever (i.e. not you).

@SwordToFlamethrower I just can't fathom being like - oh great idea I'll come too. Without an express invitation.

Thank god he put you first!!!

@tara66 She travels multiple times a year - she's not short of a few holidays. She realllllly doesn't need to go with us. But she would be livid if she's not invited.

Don't invite her. She is the one who will be livid so just don't be near her when she is.
Other options ..
Book her a gift holiday to another part of the World.
Book another resort nearby so you are not staying with her.
Ask her to baby sit a couple of times while you other adults have fun alone.
Book her time for only part of the time that you are on holiday - overlap at the start or end.

Perfect. Say you're not keen on the idea and you don't think inlaws will be either. Also the less stressed you are the better the holiday will be.

It's up to you guys whether you invite bil and sil, but I'd be clear if MIL goes I'm not going!!

That's a good back up idea

In the kindest way, it sounds like your DH needs therapy op. You should be able to say that you don't want to go on holiday with your mil, and he should be able to have some boundaries.

How can you stop her coming - of course she will.
Just keep the fact that both families are going together quiet.
As soon as she knows this she will book to come too.

Just warn DBIL that you are making your own bookings and not telling DMIL

@NutellaEllaElla Oh I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, they both do. She's been poison their whole lives.

The 4 of you need to talk and then stick to your guns if you decide to go ahead. The 2 sons work out how they will handle her.
Can you not tell her you are going to same place, get BIL to say have booked holiday in next resort? make out like it was a last minute change once you get back?

Don't be diplomatic; be blunt with your husband and BIL.

As well as not inviting her you all need to keep it secret so she doesn't turn up.

I think this requires the word 'no'. Very clearly and very firmly.

'No. Your mum can't come'
'No Sarah. You cannot join us'.

And what do you mean your husband would have a problem with that? I understand that he had a toxic childhood with her...YOU understand too...but, does he?

He can either say no to her now or he can't. And if he can't...then you have a husband problem.

Because when you have a partner it's your job to protect them from abusive elements in your family. Before that, you can decide whether or not you want to keep contact as the only person it hurts is you. But once you have a partner, you either have to be prepared to finally remove the abusers from your life perminantly or, do whatever it takes to keep your partner safe from them.

It's his job to say no to his mum.
BUT its your job to say no to him or anyone else who tramples your boundaries. That would include your partner, if he's not protecting you from his mum. Which it seems to be the case.

You don't owe him codependency in tolerating his mother abuse. That's his mistake. He doesn't get to coerce you into making the same mistake. And if he wants to guilt you for doing what he cannot (saying no) then you very much have a husband problem.

There's a difference between supporting your husband as he navigates keeping minimum contact with a toxic family member...and -allowing him to enable that family member. Especially in a way that they could then abuse you.

'No'.

Either he respects your wishes or he doesn't.
Either he values you and seeks to protect you or he doesn't. Either he owns the fact that he chooses to maintain contact with an abusive mother and therefore its his burden to shoulder not his wife's, or he doesn't.

A partnership depends on all the formers. If the later are the case, you don't have a partnership.

Will you be able to get together casually with BIL SIL and DH to plan the holiday soon? you have to talk to them honestly about it.

They all need to understand that they cannot be telling your MIL Where you are going , because you don't want her to book into the same place.

If they won't agree to this then I would just say it's probably for the best of stick to separate family holidays for the reasons that you've given here.

We once thought about inviting BIL To join us in a spare room at our villa. He had had a bad break up. Next thing you know my inlaws saw that as the green light to book their own villa in the same town. Nightmare! Since then I have been wary about inviting him on any holidays.And I am careful about not telling my in laws Where we are going on holiday.

@Natty13

I have a small social battery that gets drained.

That’s a great description, I’m borrowing that!

I honest to god wish I could just sit him down and read this to him word for word. Far more articulate than anything I could have ever put together.