He always has to remind me he can’t look at me

[Clearheartsandgreyflowers]

My (estranged) husband and I have a long messy history. He has done appalling things that I have not done. What I have done is talk (in non romantic or flirtatious ways) to another man at a large meal and once with a colleague in our home when my husband was awol. I know that second occasion was not ok and can’t be justified (even though nothing happened and I wouldn’t dream of anyway) We now no longer live together. We have children. I am trying to be ‘friends’ and basically not bring up the past (drug abuse, affairs/prostitutes, physical assaults, mismanagement of money etc) but he will regularly bring up and remind me how I disgraced myself as a woman and mother and how he can’t even look at me. I’m not sure how long I can keep hearing these things. I left him and moved away after one final event where he started to threaten to come to my work place (and ended up contacting the wife of a co worker he believed I was having or about to have an affair with-needless to say I was not) he had all the signs of someone having a psychotic break.
my struggle now is how to I move my life like this and what do I do with my kids? I know deep down he is not emotionally well but it just feels awful to be constantly told you have degraded yourself and someone you shared 20 years with can’t even look at you.

You are looking for sense and reasonable behavior from a man who doesn’t have access to those things, and he’s shown you proof of that.
stop giving him a vote.
I know that’s harder done than said - my therapist helped me.
we get really attached to our partner’s opinions - and need them to think well of us- but he no longer has that right.

if you can get a therapist, they help a ton with shifting the emotional attachment and building a wall inside, so this man’s words no longer land.

You've disgraced yourself but he's been a user of sex workers?

What you do is you file for divorce and get therapy. Everything else is his problem.

Why do you have to keep hearing these things? Why do you have to see him at all now you have moved out? Stop spending any time with him and start getting a divorce OP. You've done the hard part of moving out.

As PP said, he isn't able to be rational, logical or even make any sense at all.

It's up to you to think rationally, for yourself and for your kids.

Don't give any weight to the words of a deranged person (him), you know what he's saying is neither true, nor reasonable.

You need to cut all contact with him, because anyone that 'unstable' is a real danger to you and your DC.

That second occasion that can’t be justified? It isn’t anything. You can talk to coworkers in your home. Your ex has manipulated you into believing entirely normal behaviour is wrong. You don’t need to feel even the tiniest bit of guilt for that.

You should be saying that to him! Prostitutes? Drugs? Assault? So disgusting.
You have done nothing wrong. He wants to make sure you feel as bad as possible but don't let him have that power over you.

What do you mean about what to do with your kids? Are you talking practically or emotionally?

Thank you all sincerely for such prompt responses, part of me knows you’re right I just feel like if I didn’t do that last part about allowing my colleague into my home things would have not fallen apart. I knew men and women couldn’t be friends even though I have had no intention to be anything other but honestly it’s like deep down I knew I needed to do something extreme to cut the ties and be able to be free it just hasn’t worked this way because all he does is insult me but my husband himself won’t walk away and he won’t divorce me. He will threaten it but never do it

Of course, men and women can be friends and you did nothing wrong. I would stop trying to be friends with this idiot and only communicate things about the kids.

Men and women can be friends. You really need some professional help to get over this man. He is still in your head manipulating you.

The falling apart was down to him. Assault. Years and years of abuse. Prostitutes. Taking your money.

Trying to attribute anything of consequence to one evening chatting to a colleague, because it was in your house, is ludicrous.

When he tells you he can't look at you, laugh. Let him know that you aren't bothered that someone who uses prostitutes can't look at you. Look at him as the stupid prat he is. "Let's ask our friends if they think my conversation is more shameful than your use of prostitutes, shall we. Because I have a funny feeling you wouldn't attempt that laughable statement to anyone else. Let's test that theory."

Why don't you divorce him? It's not all about what he wants.

I would tell him you're not interested in his opinion. Every single time repeat the same phrase and nothing more.

You don't need him to agree to a divorce. You can proceed anyway. He sounds absolutely toxic OP - you can be free of him.

You've done nothing wrong, you can invite who you like to your house to have a conversation- remember, this guilt and perception of wrong doing is only a result of him manipulating you to try and see a reality as warped as his.

Proceed with the divorce, the hall is not in his court to decide.

Good luck, you'll start to feel stronger soon once you realise what a small man he is.

This disgusting man has got into your head.

Next time he threatens you, call the police.

He really has got the gaslighting number on you hasn’t he?

He is a master manipulator and got you thinking that a simple conversation is in some way worse than those things that you have mentioned that he has done.

You don’t need to have him divorce you; divorce HIM. You have plenty of grounds, he is the one that has destroyed the marriage, not you.

I get the impression, by the audacity of his claims that there is a cultural aspect to your relationship - is he or are you both from backgrounds other than White British? His view of you as a wife, mother and woman is mightily skewed.

Please take note of everything that has been said on your thread. He is a CF, chancing his arm and getting away with it so far. Turn the tables, make sure someone is with you when you next meet up with him so that he can see your children, or even better, make use of mediation services so you don’t have to see him at all. He’s 100% not worth your time or energy.

Keep posting here, we’ll remind you should you falter.

You need to stop trying to have a friendship with him. He is abusive and you have done the hardest part by splitting up with him. Now divorce him and only have contact about your children.

Women and men can be friends …

Look at the bigger picture, the psychology behind his behaviour. Your ex is putting you down because he’s manipulating you in some way. It’s likely about control. Start to research relationship dynamics so that you understand what’s going on. Look at books or podcasts about narcissism

As @LemonCitron said, you can get the ball rolling with getting divorced. You don’t need a) him to do it or b) him to agree.

Look up No Fault Divorce. Speak to a solicitor. You’ll be surprised at how much of the power in the relationship you can have… you just don’t know it yet.

You need to break the cycle. And get some therapy to unwind all the crazy thoughts he’s putting into your head.

Is this a cultural thing? Of course men and women can be friends! I have a few close male friends I got see just one to one for a coffee or dinner sometimes and my DH knows and has no problem - he knows and likes these men too, they're friends. Same with DH and women he's friends with.

How come he gets to use prostitutes and you can't even have a friend.

I really hope that you can get some therapy to work through this and stop blaming yourself.

He is a very nasty man who you should grey rock and divorce.

Go to court and get a divorce and communicate only for the children. You don’t need to be friends with him and he sounds like he will be wanting to mess with your head for every more.

Having a man into your home is quite normal. I have done it often and nothing dodgy has happened. Talking to people at dinner totally normal unless you come from an abusive relationship. He was 100% in the wrong and you need to realise that and find your anger, he has been fucking with your head to get you to feel bad when he is a full on creep who sounds like he financially abused you and cheated on you, used prostitutes and physically assaulted you. He is the reason for divorce he is vile.

Would you be safe if you replied to him that you really don't care if he can look at you or not. Something like that's fine, I don't need you to look at me.

Or say I totally understand, I feel the same about you because of (then list all the awful things he's done)

If he is now an ex (as he should be) and you no longer live together (as I hope for your sake you don’t) then you don’t need to listen to this bullshit! If you need to communicate over kid contact then restrict him to just an email address to do so if he harasses you by text or phone. If drop offs are the flash point then consider asking a friend or relative to do them or just stay in the car whilst the kids get out to meet him.

It doesn’t matter who behaved worse (hint - it was him!). You don’t need to listen to him bitch about it - you split up!!

Having a male colleague in your house for a coffee or whatever is not extreme OP. Men and women can be friends. Even if there is an attraction on one side or both it’s perfectly possible to never speak of it or act on it because both of you are loyal to your partners and respectful of the other person’s relationship and partner.
You know your ex has ridiculous double standards. It’s not your fault it fell apart. The drgus, affairs/prostitutes and financial irresponsibility on his side were the problem.

Tell him if he can look at HIMSELF in the mirror after all the hideous stuff you described then he needs serious help not ‘to be able’ (🙄) to look a woman whose worst crime was TALKING to another man. Laugh at him!