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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What do you think of these behaviours?

59 replies

WeirderandWeirder · 12/06/2024 13:21

Both middle aged, although him older. Together 13 yrs. No children together.
Will just get to the point and list some of these things that I find troubling. I don't have anyone to run it by at the moment so feel a bit isolated.
OK here we go..
These were always apparent but have amped up in the past 5 years. It began with him becoming severely defensive around 2019. No apparent stress going on, no obvious issues between us at the time. Noticed he reacted to any kind of talk or discussion about us or himself with defensiveness. It was like being cast into the unwilling role of his 'mother'.

Examples:
He fails to carry out his part of some household stuff. I begin by asking in a friendly way to remember the stuff. He says yes yes of course. It doesn't get done. I then have to bring it up again and his reaction will be to either deny I had asked the first time, tell me I am 'shining a critical torch on him' or immediately get up and do the thing, even if we are on our way out - so he will over react by cleaning the oven as we are about to leave the house.

He KNOWS some of these things upset me, such as leaving stuff to smell in the kitchen, or never laying food up, so I end up doing it. If I push the issue he becomes extremely defensive and acts as if I am hounding him. If i didn't do them, then he would absolutely take his time and I imagine would live in a pigsty if I wasn't here.

Example 2:
Doesn't like to discuss 'us' or plans for the future. Never suggests doing stuff, asking me about my thoughts or shares ideas. If conversations turn to discussing our relationship he is very uncomfortable and annoyed. If I mention this could lead to problems between us he simply denies everything, even when he isn't even accused of anything. Obviously this does me no favours at all and leaves me feeling guilty and frustrated.
We got into a horrible stage a few yrs ago where this happened often, and he reacted the exact same way every time, eventually flouncing off to another room like an injured animal. I did a lot of soul searching and wondered if I was a monster, but that didn't last. I even tried to talk about his feelings, etc, to help me understand him better but it never resolved.

Example 3:
He makes a lot of statements but doesn't follow them with action.
So during a period of barely communicating with me once, I asked him could we talk. He grew irritated and said 'you obviously know I care'. However, his voice and eyes were uninterested, he simply looked disgusted. He always says ' I would love to go on holiday' or 'we should absolutely cook that yummy meal' but never, ever brings them up again. If I don't do it, it would never happen.

Example 4:
If I ever have a health issue or worry, he dismisses it every time saying 'oh, it will just go'. I once had a very swollen tonsil that he insisted looked completely normal. I have so many examples of these! He has denied me having a rash, saying even with a torch he can't see it, and rolls his eyes or says 'mmmm' if I ask him why he does this. He insists he isn't doing anything at all.
Sounds tragic but a few days ago I scratched my arm gardening, so several little red furrows appeared. I later deliberately showed him my arm to prove to myself what his reaction would be - I said look at this, can you see anything on my arm? He predictably said 'not really, is it the imprint from clothing?'
It is like these feel deliberately dismissive, to the point where he will pick any ridiculous idea before the practical, obvious one.

As you can see, after some years of confusion and second guessing myself, I am at my wits end.

OP posts:
Runsyd · 12/06/2024 13:33

You pretty much described my partner. Covert narcissism with classic lack of empathy, coupled with avoidant attachment. My DH will never address issues in the relationship, will stare out of the window or stand with his back to me if I ever try to discuss anything he's not comfortable with (and there's a very narrow range of things he is comfortable with). He does the exact same thing, promises to do something then never does it, right down the deliberate over-reaction when you finally deliver an ultimatum. Says he loves me, but this never translates into actually caring how I feel.

This might help: https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/memberarticles/the-insidious-damage-caused-by-covert-emotional-abuse

WeirderandWeirder · 12/06/2024 13:44

I'm sorry you have experienced this, although it helps somewhat to not feel completely odd. I spent a long time wondering if I was causing it.

Another good example of avoidance is to say all the right things but never follow up on them or prove them with action..
'It would be great if we could have a romantic dinner this week!'
'Mmm, sounds lovely'.
Nothing gets mentioned again, unless I push it.

I have wanted to visit a coastline in the NW for years, it is low cost and easy to get to. He often goes on about it and looks at people hiking there on youtube. I have suggested going for the past two years and he always says 'yeh, would love that'. Then nothing. If it comes up again he always has an excuse why we can't do it.

This week I decided to go alone. I was looking at train tickets last night and discussing maybe going next week. I spoke happily about it for a few mins then carried on planning it online. He appeared to become confused as to why I had not mentioned him coming too. Didn't say anything but continued to give me strange glances. He is so used to me asking and involving him in things that he was either A) shocked or B) glad to not have to get involved!

OP posts:
marriednotdead · 12/06/2024 13:55

This all sounds like my exh. If he’s true to form, he will engineer a falling out with you in the 24 hours before you leave for the trip, leaving you fretting and taking the shine off of it. Because how dare you think of anyone else but him. He may then send you a nice text when you’ve left the house feeling wretched and of course will have no interest in hearing about it afterwards.

Anon751117000 · 12/06/2024 13:59

You can sit and try to analyse his behaviour as much as you want, but all those things you list are awful ways to behave. He clearly doesn't care about you and I suspect is just there for the free labour you provide. He won't change. He is the master of gaslighting too.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/06/2024 14:00

What the other respondents have written.

How can you be helped into leaving this man, a man who acts really as your jailer here?.

You need to make him your ex because there is really no future for you in this relationship.

ClickClickety · 12/06/2024 14:04

This relationship has run its course. If he's bad now imagine how it'll be when you're both older and start getting ill. The list of ways he's upset you will just get longer.

AlisonDonut · 12/06/2024 14:06

Do you even want to carry on this relationship? What are his good points?

TheCultureHusks · 12/06/2024 14:10

Picture yourself getting older and needing more support and kindness from a man like this. Not a nice thought is it?

You can analyse as much as you like, but in a nutshell he’s just not a very nice, kind or life-enhancing person. What would leaving look like?

WeirderandWeirder · 12/06/2024 14:11

I do agree and think that there is nothing left to try to work out here. Am preparing to galvanise the strength to make plans.

Funnily enough he never ever makes arguments, quite the opposite really, he will do his level bast to not engage at all. He has no issue with me going places alone, possibly prefers it. No idea why he is even with me at this point. Possibly wouldn't find anyone else so willing to take him on!

Believe it or not he is a nice guy. Will do anything for you. But the mental headfuck elements are not good at all.

OP posts:
Saintmariesleuth · 12/06/2024 14:11

This sounds very one sided and not like a proper partnership at all. I'm struggling to see what there is left to salvage here, especially as this has been going on for years.

You sound (understandably) fed up, frustrated and held back. Absolutely book your trip to the coast (alone) and take some time away to reconsider this relationship. I suspect that you would feel like a millstone has been removed from your neck.

Saintmariesleuth · 12/06/2024 14:17

As we cross posted- I am not sure that nice is the word I would use to describe him.

He may well be helpful, but I wouldn't consider his cold, sulky behaviour and refusal to do chores around your home as behaving nicely towards you.

Runsyd · 12/06/2024 14:25

WeirderandWeirder · 12/06/2024 14:11

I do agree and think that there is nothing left to try to work out here. Am preparing to galvanise the strength to make plans.

Funnily enough he never ever makes arguments, quite the opposite really, he will do his level bast to not engage at all. He has no issue with me going places alone, possibly prefers it. No idea why he is even with me at this point. Possibly wouldn't find anyone else so willing to take him on!

Believe it or not he is a nice guy. Will do anything for you. But the mental headfuck elements are not good at all.

Yeah, everyone thinks my partner is a saint. Even my own kids. He's very careful not to show his true colours to other people. The thing is, he is a nice guy on many levels. He's generous, very hard-working (at stuff that interests him) and far more patient than me, and he has been extremely kind to my kids.. He also tolerates my negative traits. But at bottom he regards me as a subordinate, and he's completely uninterested in how I feel about anything really.

OP, it is hugely confusing, and it took me nearly 20 years to understand that underneath that nice guy image was a total lack of empathy. If your partner is like mine, then he can be extremely charming and is exceptionally good at image management. But it's only surface deep, underneath he operates like a benevolent psychopath.

AlisonDonut · 12/06/2024 17:32

WeirderandWeirder · 12/06/2024 14:11

I do agree and think that there is nothing left to try to work out here. Am preparing to galvanise the strength to make plans.

Funnily enough he never ever makes arguments, quite the opposite really, he will do his level bast to not engage at all. He has no issue with me going places alone, possibly prefers it. No idea why he is even with me at this point. Possibly wouldn't find anyone else so willing to take him on!

Believe it or not he is a nice guy. Will do anything for you. But the mental headfuck elements are not good at all.

He doesn't do anything for YOU though does he?

Like the housework, talk to you, care about you when you are ill...

WeirderandWeirder · 12/06/2024 18:29

I'll tell you what it makes me wonder though, how long we can know someone yet find out we never really did. It makes me think that many human relationships are based on a blind trust, if enough boxes are ticked at the outset. And it DOES take many years to grow to know someone properly - even then, we might never.

I recognise the 'subordinate' thing, but not in a patriarchal or Victorian sense, more of an unconscious eye rolling thing. I do notice from threads I have read on MN that we women do one heck of a lot of thinking about these guys, as if we are programmed to analyse and fix things whilst he just bumbles along without any responsibility to do the same in return.

Sometimes I think that if we didn't want to have children and housing was more affordable for singles, how many of us would just walk.
I think I would have by now, considering the past 5 years. It is so much less expensive to put up with shit!

OP posts:
Somerandomgirl · 12/06/2024 21:14

Can anyone from you ladies with expirience tell me Why do these kind of men stay in the relationship? How do you get rid?

AutumnFroglets · 12/06/2024 21:32

My stbxh is very similar even down to the nice, kind exterior but I've noticed that he only does nice things for me that he can "brag" about.

He tells everyone that he takes me to my hospital appointments, but neglects to mention he doesn't stay, doesn't pick me up after or asks me how it went. Ever.

He tells everyone he does the cooking, but neglects to mention he only does it when our adult children are there but doesn't cook for me and him. Just him.

He tells everyone he does the decorating, but neglects to mention he only does the wallpapering, not the prep, the paint or the gloss. And most definitely none of the clearing up.

Btw -
It's my fault if I don't remind him of things he promised to do. But when I remind him I'm told I'm nagging. I was left in a no win situation - and that is deliberate on his part. He's trained me to shut up and put up and unfortunately it's taken me decades to realise this, that's how stupid I've been.

Runsyd · 12/06/2024 21:38

AutumnFroglets · 12/06/2024 21:32

My stbxh is very similar even down to the nice, kind exterior but I've noticed that he only does nice things for me that he can "brag" about.

He tells everyone that he takes me to my hospital appointments, but neglects to mention he doesn't stay, doesn't pick me up after or asks me how it went. Ever.

He tells everyone he does the cooking, but neglects to mention he only does it when our adult children are there but doesn't cook for me and him. Just him.

He tells everyone he does the decorating, but neglects to mention he only does the wallpapering, not the prep, the paint or the gloss. And most definitely none of the clearing up.

Btw -
It's my fault if I don't remind him of things he promised to do. But when I remind him I'm told I'm nagging. I was left in a no win situation - and that is deliberate on his part. He's trained me to shut up and put up and unfortunately it's taken me decades to realise this, that's how stupid I've been.

It's my fault if I don't remind him of things he promised to do. But when I remind him I'm told I'm nagging. I was left in a no win situation - and that is deliberate on his part. He's trained me to shut up and put up and unfortunately it's taken me decades to realise this, that's how stupid I've been.

Oh god, exactly this. Always creating a damned-if-you-do-and damned-if-you-don't scenario. I recognise that well.

WeirderandWeirder · 12/06/2024 21:52

Somerandomgirl · 12/06/2024 21:14

Can anyone from you ladies with expirience tell me Why do these kind of men stay in the relationship? How do you get rid?

I am not convinced at this point that mine would hunt me down if I upped and left. He would much prefer to remain in touch though, offering me very little yet still feeling some sort of ownership of me.

I think, sadly, that with a lot of men like this, you are their sexual property, even if you have not been active for a while. The idea of someone else having me is the only thing I think makes mine feel any sort of passion. So yeh, a kind of ownership. I doubt it is a conscious thing, I don't think they sit around doing this on purpose.

Also, a lot of the married men of this type would struggle to be alone - chores, organisation, lack of routine, perceived sense of sexual loss.

I say this but I do have a great deal of respect for men, I just think our culture fills their heads with crap at a very early age.

OP posts:
Iggityziggety · 12/06/2024 22:01

This is exactly like my last relationship. I almost can't believe the similarities. He didn't want it to end but also didn't want to make any effort to fix things, he just wanted me to go back to 'normal', keep my head down and carry on as we were. I think he wanted the outward appearance of having a family life but in reality didn't want a relationship at all, just someone to do the childcare, cleaning and mental load, as well as organise everything for him to attend as he pleased. He didn't want to sleep with me, wasn't affectionate towards me, didn't want to spend time on our own or go on dates. He was furious when I opted out of this arrangement. His parents relationship is very similar where his dad is a belligerent rude bastard and his mum trots along after him adoring him and never daring to express any opinions or feelings of her own. I think my ex expects a relationship between a man and woman to be exactly like this.

neilyoungismyhero · 12/06/2024 22:08

@Runsyd ...completely ditto...you've put my relationship in a nut shell.

Edenmum2 · 12/06/2024 22:11

Sounds utterly tiresome and miserable for you.

WeirderandWeirder · 12/06/2024 22:22

Yep, it often feels like Groundhog Day.

OP posts:
WeirderandWeirder · 12/06/2024 23:24

Ooh just remembered another one, and this seems to run in cycles every few months or so.
He will suddenly begin to not hear me. Like I can be talking in the street as we are walking, about anything and nothing, and he will nod along. Then when I ask a question he is stupefied. It usually rolls out that he didn't hear a word I had said.
Sometimes he will ask me to repeat something over 4 times that I have clearly spoken at a decent volume. On a few occasions I have had to literally shout for him to hear my by the third attempt.

It grew to a point where he would only listen to the tail end of a sentence, so that he could cover himself if necessary. He once let me open up about a painful memory of a family loss for over 10 minutes, then sheepishly admitted he hadn't heard a word I'd said, asking me to repeat it all Sad

This can vanish up to a month or two later and all seems to reset to normal. I did wonder if it was his hearing, but it never happens when we are in company or he is talking to anyone else. He is fussy about eye/ears/teeth appointments so we know his hearing is tickety boo.

Exasperating!
Why do people do this????

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 13/06/2024 07:00

He tunes you out

VoteHappy · 13/06/2024 07:06

You are asking why he does this
Ask yourself why are you putting up with this?
Bin him