Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 11

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

I was thinking of chengeing the thread Aspergers/ASD to ND, which I think might be more appropriate and inculsive, but I've left it as it is as I suspect many people find us by searching for Aspergers and/or ASD.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here

@BustyLaRoux But could your partner have heard that from a counsellor even if it had been offered? If someone’s whole deal is that nobody’s allowed to give them any feedback or ask them to modify their behaviour, then counselling won’t work.

I think I have reached a moment!!! I know I need to get out. I am looking at rental properties. I don’t want to end the relationship but I am really worried about the long term effect the stress is having on me. My insomnia has returned. I am often on high alert. Especially if my DS is also in the house as they do not get on and I am caught in the middle. DS is a lazy and often rude teenage boy. He has ADHD and is messy and thoughtless. He would always rather be fidgeting or fixing something or looking at his phone than doing what’s been asked of him. He is a pain. But he is also my son and DP shouts at him, goads him, calls him a liar, accuses him of stuff he hasn’t done all the time, criticises him all the time. No wonder my DS can’t stand him! And because of that he is rude to him. DP then shouts at me and tells me I’m a shit parent for allowing it. I’m stuck in the middle as DS shouldn’t be rude. Of course not, but DP shouldn’t be criticising and shouting at him either. It isn’t doing me any good. My relationship with DS is suffering and so is my relationship with DP.
I also find DP’s mess and chaos quite overwhelming. I’m a tidy person. I don’t make a lot of mess. And I tidy as I go along. DP makes all Hell break loose when he cooks. He loves cooking. But he won’t use one pan if he can use five. All the knives (one for every ingredient) and all the chopping boards. Bowls of this and utensils everywhere. He then “leaves it all to soak” sometimes for a day or two….. I cannot stand this. I’ve stopped using the kitchen and have lost all interest in food. I’ll often skip meals because I don’t want to go in there as I know I’ll need to spend 20 minutes cleaning up his mess before I can even begin to make anything! When his DC have been here and left for school the next day and mine arrive after school, I have to clean a load of his cooking detritus from the day before before I can begin to cook for my DC. I fucking hate it!!!! I know I cannot live like this much longer. I sometimes wish I wasn’t here anymore. I keep going. I will always keep going. But I have become an anxious person ignoring my own feelings, trying to make peace, unable to sleep for worry. I know something needs to change.

That’s a good question. I think he might have heard it. I remember on one occasion me and DP had been out on a date. I’d arranged it (of course!). But I got my period and my back was killing me and I felt exhausted (always do on day 1). I took painkillers and tried my best. It got to about 9pm, the seats were very uncomfortable. The painkillers has worn off. The main event has finished. I was doing a sterling job of keeping the pain out of my face and listening to DP. He decided we should stay for another drink. I could have said no, but he was enjoying himself and I thought I could probably get through another half an hour. I said OK.

At one point after about 20 mins he showed me something on his phone. I looked but must have winced without realising. DP suddenly downs his drink and says “you’re obviously not interested, let’s go!” And walks out. I had zero clue what I’d done. I rushed out after him. I asked and asked what I’d done. He refused to tell me. Said I should stop pushing him for an answer when he’d said he didn’t want to talk about it. How unfair I was being to keep on at him. But I was completely bewildered. Kept saying I don’t understand. I thought we were having a nice time.

Eventually he said I’d been huffing and puffing and rolling my eyes to the ceiling and obviously found him boring or whatever. I was completely shocked. And said I hadn’t been huffing and puffing at all. Had no idea what he meant. I was in a lot of pain. Perhaps I sighed with pain or grimaced. But I was trying hard to look OK so I’m sure I wasn’t huffing away and rolling my eyes. He wouldn’t accept it. He loves to exaggerate and reinvent things so in his mind my grimace had been turned into me huffing and puffing and rolling my eyes in boredom.

I explained all this to our counsellor. The counsellor seemed concerned and asked DP if he could have handled the situation differently. DP said yea he probably should have. Probably should have said “you’re obviously tired, let’s just go” rather than walking out.

Counsellor said “mmm or perhaps “you look tired. Are you OK? Would you prefer to go?” DP mulls it over and says yes, that probably is what he should have said! But it took for the counsellor to point this out. DP wouldn’t accept it from me and felt he’d been fine to do what he did and that it was me in the wrong for pushing him to tell me what had upset him when he’d specifically told me to leave it!!!!!

I totally understand how you're feeling especially regarding the mess and cooking etc. I would end up doing everything just to avoid my ex using the kitchen as what I would walk into afterwards just wasn't worth it. I wore myself down literally picking up a pile of destruction from straight behind him wherever he went. It wore me down so much and when i was sick etc the house was a sinking ship. Now my home is my peace and although I have a 3 year old it's way less chaotic and a lot tidier

My heart breaks for all of you. Your marriages sound absolutely hellish and it sounds like all of you have done as much as you can to keep going under really difficult conditions.

@BustyLaRoux I couldn’t cope with that more than once or twice in the kitchen. You are a saint. I hope you find a place for you and your DS quickly. It sounds really really challenging. I’m already fatigued with menopause etc. the thought of having to clean up after an adult 😱😱😱

Maybe your DS picks up on your anxiety and this isn’t helping him either. A place just the two of you sounds like bliss. Peaceful, tidy and no more arguments!

I’m probably being a bit unfair. He does clear up. Just not as he’s going along. It’s different ways of working. I clean up as I go. There’s really no mess other than the things which are cooking. He will use every bowl and pan and utensil and then do a few bits as he goes along but most of it will be left. He then eats with the kids. Then they watch some shit on the TV. Kitchen is a bomb. He’ll do most of it before he goes to bed but it’s usually 10pm by then and he hasn’t got the appetite to scrub pans. So he “leaves them to soak”. Or he put them back in the oven (dirty) and forgets about them. So he does clean up, just not to my standard and when I want it done!!! lol!

I just crave peace and order. And he is all about the drama and the criticising and the mess. It’s not working and I’m worried I’m becoming ill. I’m going to try and broach the subject of separate living arrangements after our Summer holiday. I think things could actually be really good if we lived apart. But I worry he’ll say it’s the end for us. Which I will accept because I need peace more than I need to be in this relationship!

This is a copy paste of my situation. It's such a relief to find that this behaviour is not unique to DH.

That sounds really hard @BustyLaRoux when I first came on this thread several posters pointed out the importance of looking after your health, so I will repeat that now. It's just not worth getting ill, whether the behaviour is with intent or not. I know it's not as straightforward as that maybe and that you have invested a lot of thought, care, consideration and various strategies into yoir relationships (I can tell you have tried so hard!) but if it's making it hard for your DS too than maybe it's worth a think about where this is going. Together Apart might be an option?

Oh and I too crave peace and quiet. And a less chaotic house!

Haven't been able to approach H about any difficult conversations, ended up at Ikea and then DD had a meltdown after. I am so nearly ready to have that 'talk' now, amost, almost ready.

I wonder if that’s the answer?

Together apart?

In essence this is what we are already, but by moving into separate spaces it formalises it instead of keeping up the charade which I think does way more for their mental health than it does ours.

I’m just waiting for kids to be a bit older before I can look at what sort of options are available.

DS is such a softie I’m not sure how he’s going to cope with real life. He may be at home forever! As will DD. Both have issues. It’s a tangled web and very hard to carve out a space for our needs which continually get put to the bottom of the pile.

The 'Together Apart' living arrangement is something I have seriously contemplated.
Dh has always worked away, so I got used to living alone, then alone with small children, then teens. Looking back I realised that even when dh was/is home he was/is not really part of our dynamic. He's here physically, but doesn't really participate in our lives.
I used to really miss him, now I prefer when he's away. I prefer living alone. He just gives me more work, cleaning up after him. He doesn't converse, so it's actually less lonely when I'm alone.
Dh's retirement is looming and I'll be an empty nester in a few years, I can't fathom it being just dh and I.
I have discussed me getting a little place in town and him keeping a little place in the country, selling it as having the best of both worlds. Its the only way I can see our future.

Together Apart would mean I could sleep (I’m a very light sleeper and DP has put on a lot of weight and drinks too much and has started snoring pretty much all night long. He also twitches and wriggles his feet. It constantly wakes me up. I’m exhausted. When my kids aren’t here I sleep in one of their rooms. My insomnia has come back because of all the anxiety but at least when I am asleep I am not being woken up multiple times a night. I actually get quite anxious before bed if we are sleeping together as I know it will be another night of shit sleep for me. A bed of my own would be amazing. Him and his kids are away at the moment. The house is tidy. I can cook without having to tidy up someone’s mess first. I’m not on high alert looking for things my DS might have left or not done, anticipating the criticism that I know will come. I am worried about what I can afford. I am worried about another upheaval. I am worried that he will get difficult. I wish I knew how to broach this.

Together apart is the next best thing to apart apart 😂
I think about this a lot - I imagine the ideal outcome would be some sort of mini supported living situation where DH (and DC as he gets older) could have the autonomy they need without draining me of what remains of mine.

Failing that, I’d just like to have a little self-contained bedsit I could retreat to within the house, that nobody else was allowed to hoard into or fill with incessant noise and demands and stream of consciousness ranting.

Even just, like, a little soundproof booth with a comfortable chair and a power source. And my own toilet. Forever free from skidmarks and congealed man-piss.

Good luck, @LittleSwede . Ride that momentum. 👏🏻

Dh and I have separate bedrooms as I am also a very light sleeper and he is a nightmare to sleep with. Tossing and turning, snoring, gas. Could never share a bed again, with anyone. I have a lovely tidy, clean bedroom, whereas he is happy to let the dog sleep with him.
When he's gone, I have a clean and tidy house. He is not a clean or tidy person.
I remind him to do things, just as I remind my teens. The only difference being one is a fully grown man, who still isn't toilet trained or house trained.

I wouldn’t mind sharing a bed if DH bathed regularly, and washed his hair. But he hates water, and he needs to be in exactly the right frame of mind to withstand getting his head and face wet. He manages it about once every 2 weeks.

He smells so awful I sometimes feel sick. That kind of rancid sweet smell. He insists I’m oversensitive. Our house isn’t big enough for separate rooms.

I know I cannot live like this much longer. I sometimes wish I wasn’t here anymore. I keep going. I will always keep going. But I have become an anxious person ignoring my own feelings, trying to make peace, unable to sleep for worry. I know something needs to change.

Oh @BustyLaRoux

This is no good, sweetheart. No good.

You keep saying what you could have or should have done different, but you are bending yourself over backwards until your back cracks and you become 1) so much smaller and 2) probably in the long term ill.

If you're in the process of losing the will to wake up in the mornings, you're in a terrible situation. Please don't underestimate the price you are paying ... well, you will, just to survive. But if you can ever get out, after some time you will see just how much of yourself you've compromised into little shreds.

I sincerely hope that one day you can leave.

(As an aside, I am amazed that someone with such debilitating sensory sensitivities as my DH can’t acknowledge the sensory impact he might have on others. But that’s so much of the issue, isn’t it. The only correct experience / opinion is one’s own; if others’ experience differs, they are simply wrong.)

Oh god that is awful!!! I’m really hygiene conscious and I wouldn’t be able to stand that. I don’t know what you do about it. I know exactly the smell you mean. You’re not being over sensitive at all. Washing once every two weeks isn’t normal. It’s not your nose that’s the issue. My DSD has an odour to her. I’m not sure either of his DC wash that regularly. They only wash when he reminds them. Sometimes it’s once a day, sometimes not. And her diet is really awful which I wonder drives the smell a bit. It’s that same musky sickly-sweet unwashed scent you describe. I keep her bedroom firmly closed as her room stinks and you can smell it on the landing. I boil wash all her clothes to try and get the smell out. I don’t know how you stomach sharing a bed with someone who smells that bad. Do you have a second reception room where you could put a sofa bed and retreat to? I really feel for you!

Exactly. I think the hypocrisy of it all is the part I find hardest in some ways.

Oh @Bunnyhair I feel for you.
Dhs personal hygiene is not good either. I've come to realise that I become a maniacal cleaning freak when he is home, and revert back to a normal rational person when he leaves.
He is not clean so my home is not clean. I hate him in the kitchen, touching food as he doesn't wash his hands, ever. So I do all the cooking and clearing up. He can use the same bath towel for weeks, his bed/pillow have bodily fluid stains, either his or the dogs. He let's his finger nails and toenails grow till they curl. Disgusting.

it’s so hard. And somehow I end up holding all the shame about this. Like it is a reflection of my poor wifeliness. Like any self-respecting woman would ‘insist’ on some basic level of personal hygiene. (I’d always love to know what form this ‘insistence’ should take, when he’s over twice my body weight and a foot taller. Am I meant to forcibly hose him down in the garden against his will? With no thought for his own wishes or dignity? Like I’m some sort of zookeeper?)

Or it’s my fault because I should never have married him in the first place, and this is what I signed up for. But he wasn’t like this then! Or I would obviously not have married him!

(And presumably he wouldn’t marry me again, either - I assume he also imagined things would be different, and easier than they are. I can’t imagine it’s nice for him living with someone who physically recoils from him and tells him he smells, when he very firmly believes he doesn’t. His experience really is that I am gaslighting him and being horrible.)

Sorry @Bunnyhair had to laugh at zookeeper reference!!! 😂