Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 11

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

I was thinking of chengeing the thread Aspergers/ASD to ND, which I think might be more appropriate and inculsive, but I've left it as it is as I suspect many people find us by searching for Aspergers and/or ASD.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here

Bunnyhair my DH appears similar to yours in regards to alexithymia, operating a kind of dual experience of cognitively making decisions without intuitive input (which feels incredibly hard and often ends in avoidance) plus then an emotional / bodily experience that he can’t tap into or name which explodes into the open in exactly the ways you describe.

My feelings are central to my orientation to the world so I feel like this is the biggest difference between us. I would love any alexithymia resources anyone had since I find it genuinely hard to imagine.

Appearing totally normal, blank or inappropriately cheerful in response to stressful life events is the only thing that has led me to consider official diagnosis so that NHS staff have an alternative non-judgemental understanding of my behaviour.

I'm good in a crisis (disassociated) but I collapse weeks or months after.

I have 2 diagnosed ASD DC. There is abundant evidence that I have always been autistic but have collected other diagnoses - depression, eating disorder, anxiety, one off psychotic episode etc.

So maybe I'm undiagnosed autistic and I'm the genetic link to my DC autism. They didn't have a good time in education but despite that are fine young men. Sure they have difficulties in line with their diagnostic issues but they are good people. They are not mean or cruel or selfish.

My ex is just a cunt. He has been that way for a long time. He cheats, he lies, he sees himself as the victim. He used to compete if I was ill - I was in hospital for a week following C-section with DS1 but returned home to an overflowing laundry basket etc because DH had hurt his back which meant he couldn't pick up our 5kg newborn and I would have to manage on my own.

He's living his best life now I have sole responsibility for the care of DS. All his issues have melted away. He may have met diagnostic criteria whilst married but now he is firmly NT.

But whilst we were still together I would have given anything to believe that he was undiagnosed autistic. For there to be some other reason for his behaviour other than he had seen my vulnerability and taken advantage.

The vast majority of ASD people are not selfish - or incapable of learning how to use the washing machine etc. I've taught my DC how to this, how to cook simple meals, household tasks, gardening etc.

Some people seem to suggest that their undiagnosed DH have a responsible (people facing with a communication disorder) job but can't do this. I call bullshit. To police your boundaries you have to stop being so gullible and to know when your good nature is being exploited.

Hmmm. DW's instinctive reaction is to just say no. If I say let's we go for a quick walk along the beach (very close,) she'll say "no, it might rain later". As you say it's instinctive.

I’m sorry to hear you had this experience with your ex.

The people who are married to ASD partners with low support needs and high IQs and no executive function difficulties and no problems with social communication or demand avoidance don’t tend to post here, because things are going more or less OK for them in their ND relationships, and what martial problems they have are the sorts of things most people can relate to, so they don’t need to vent here, in particular. And more power to them!

But I’m sick of people implying I’m some sort of gullible apologist for crappy men by believing that my autistic husband is autistic - because autism can somehow only ever mean the deeper-than-NT empathy and the inspiring sense of justice and ethics and the love of animals and the deep joy in learning and maybe a bit of light sensory sensitivity - and any aspect of the ASD diagnostic criteria that might make someone a tiny bit complex to live with at times is just explained away by their being a lazy selfish twat, and somehow nothing at all to do with executive dysfunction or demand avoidance.

This feels frankly ableist to me - this idea that autism = low support needs. Autism = consistent functioning across environments. Autism = high IQ. Autism = hyper-empathy. That may be what it is like for you and your DC. But it is different for my autistic DC, who has some challenging behaviours and may well not live independently as an adult, despite exceptional surface-level social sophistication. He can’t tie his shoes. He can’t operate the TV remote, despite being very highly motivated to use it. But maybe he’s just a lazy predatory shit as well, and I’m just being gullible…? Maybe I’m just letting him get away with it? Maybe it’s not autism because he’s not clever enough or hyper-empathetic?

If my DH lived on his own he might look NT as well - because nobody would have any expectations of him. He wouldn’t need to be anywhere at any particular time. He wouldn’t need to do anything for anyone apart from himself. And he could function optimally, with dar fewer meltdowns and shutdowns. Because he has PDA and that is literally the whole thing about PDA - responsibilities and obligations feel like an unbearable demand that he reflexively resists. And sure, it makes him behave like a twat! But he’s not choosing it, he’s not planning it deliberately to make my life difficult.

And nor is my child.

And nonetheless, my life is difficult!

Why why why can’t we just agree that we all have different experiences, and resist the urge to ‘call bullshit’ on the lives and experiences of people we know absolutely nothing about? Why?

yes all this. 100% relatable.

Can I have a rant and vent as feeling so stuck tonight. You can be as frank and honest with me as you like, I'm already half way out the door of this marriage already.

Maybe a trigger warning in case this is too much? Happy to ask for post to be removed if so.

Background, as some of you know we are an ND ND marriage and I have probably got PTSD from a previous marriage to an abusive man. The issues I have with my H is is his inability to regulate his anger/moods which comes across as abusive, with or without intent. I am having counselling and working up courage to end it, hopefully as gently, kindly and amicable as possible.

However, with 'incidents' like tonight I am finding this very, very hard. I'm currently in autistic or maybe trauma flee mode and trying to keep calm for DD and myself as got a bad cold virus. Due to a lifetime of fawning and masking I really struggle with boundaries and yet again they have been overstepped. H has a habit of touching and grabbing me (boobs or bum) without consent and despite me clearly saying that this is not ok, a few weeks go by and then it happens again. It's quick and fleeting (a second or so and not too rough) and in passing but I do not like it. I wish I could just tell him to f off or something but no, I protest, he makes me out to be a grump, I go into fawn mode, with a hint of passive aggressive and now being told I'm grumpy. This is likely not his ND, this is male entitlement and a clear lack of boundaries on my part which means in past I would have just accepted this sort of behaviour. I now know it's not ok and have said so. We don't sleep together and are not intimate very often so know he is desperate for physical connection but this just feels the wrong way to go about it.

The idea was to finish my counselling and then sit him down to 'talk' at a less emotional time. He's currently in process of clearing amd selling late FIL's house and dealing with grief so I'm trying to wait but then things like thais happen and I go into flee mode and can't just pretend everything is ok.

Am I overreacting? Apologies if too much info, I'm not my rational self and maybe oversharing.

It doesn’t sound at all like you’re overreacting. This behaviour is infuriating and intrusive, particularly when you’ve asked so often for it to stop. And you are not over sharing. ❤️

Am I understanding correctly that you feel things have reached a tipping point and you are considering ending things now, rather than the original plan of working through it more in counselling?

What would it be helpful to think through here?

Just marking place and sending love to all x

My DP will often appear to say no, by listing all the negative things he can think of about whatever suggestion. But he doesn’t say no as such. I then go “errrr right OK, so I take it you don’t want to do that/go there?” And he says “I didn’t say I didn’t want to go there”
I’m like: No, but you said you’re busy and you really need to catch up on so and so and the kids went there last week and the weather forecast said rain when you checked earlier in the week and the kids looked tired and and and and.. which I take to mean you don’t want to.

But he might then say yes let’s go there. And seem confused as to why I would think he didn’t want to go! (Because you just gave me nine reasons why it wasn’t a good idea!!! 😩)

I think his natural response is to always look for all the negatives and then list them. And he cant see why this is suggests he doesn’t like the idea or why it’s a bit demoralising when you e spent ages planning some things to do!

@Bunnyhair thank you, I guess it's the guilt over ending things when it's a rather rough time for H as FIL passed away last summer and he's very stressed by the sale of the house. That and DD being out if school since January and only just showing signs of recovery from burn out. But there's always something stopping me.

If you put the guilt aside for a moment (big ask, I know!) what are your concerns about ending it now? How do you imagine your DD would respond? Do you have a plan for how the split might work?

There will always be stressful things going on in life - sometimes it’s worth striking while the iron is hot and acting when you have the urge.

Oh @LittleSwede nonof course you’re not over sharing. It does sound like the initial behaviour (the grabbing at you when you’ve clearly said you don’t like it) is male entitlement. Coupled with desperation for affection and intimacy and, as you say, going about it in a ham fisted Trump-esque manner and making a complete hash of it. Perhaps the inability to really understand your boundaries is an ASD issue as he lacks the empathy to see that you don’t like it and it is upsetting for you. (I wouldn’t like it either and I doubt many people in a sexless relationship would find this acceptable).
What is attributable to being a shitty male and what is attributable to ASD is irrelevant really. It isn’t OK, and without meaning to come on too strong, touching people in intimate places without their consent (and actually in this case with clear instruction that you do not want this) is sexual assault! Just because it’s your DH doesn’t make it OK.
You have every right to feel angry, upset, whatever you feel.
If you need to expedite leaving because of shit like this then don’t feel obliged to stay. If you have a plan to get out then move it forward if you can xxxx

Exactly this

@Bunnyhair 👏👏👏Very eloquently put.

Thank you @Bunnyhair and @BustyLaRoux I've calmed down a bit with a Marvel film (can't see any of the Avengers behaving like that!!) Will think over my options tomorrow and over the weekend and likely do something sooner rather than later.

My plan for the split was to have an open and honset talk about it not working then figure out if we could co-parent in house until someone can move out. I do think DD can see that I'm not ok with some of H's behaviour 😕

The Trump-esque comment made me laugh!

And yes, sadly I do realise it is assault and I do feel very uncomfortable with it. It's helping me find my anger which might help me move forward and act.

@LittleSwede I can 100% relate. Happy to chat in PMs as well , but no you are not overreacting. So many of the stories on this support thread resonate to mine and honestly I knew the end of our marriage was inevitable because of boundaries broken over and over and over again. Taking that step to leave is so excruciating and hard and guilt ridden. I can only say from my experience it has been the best thing for my mental health. I know it is cliche, but you will know when you are 100% ready. It took me 5 tries before I actually did it. I do hope for amicability for you as that is the best result for all. Unfortunately mine has not gone that way, but not for lack of trying on my part. Sending you strength & happy to answer any questions from one who is in the middle of the divorce process,

We had counselling. DH felt the point of it was for an authority figure to hear all about our difficulties and then tell him he was right and I was wrong, so it wasn’t very likely to succeed in our case. He actually said he just wanted someone to agree with him about me. So I think it was a bit of a waste of time and money for us to do it but at the time we were both pretty desperate to find anything that might improve things between us.
The counsellor kept pointing to lack of communication as the problem. That’s true but it’s more complicated than that also. communication doesn’t always equal give and take. We each feel not supported by the other emotionally. But neither they nor I knew anything about ND then.

I don’t know how much it would have helped anyway if the counsellor had really pointed out to us that part of the issue could be permanent differences in thinking due to neurological differences between us. I’d have put a lot of pressure on myself to do find a perfect resolution that worked for everyone. So for now I am accommodating as best I can given the daily issues to deal with. I’m not looking beyond the immediate at the moment into the future but it’s constantly sitting on my shoulder.

There isn’t an easy fix to living like this. I often repeat to DH that I am not able to read his thoughts, so I will need him to tell me clearly what they are and not assume I know. I say it’s not fair to get offended with me that I haven’t stuck to his idea of what the plan is, when I don’t know what that plan is.

It’s also necessary for me to repeatedly point out that it’s OK for me to disagree with his idea or have ideas of my own and doesn’t immediately mean I think his idea was worthless and should be trashed. (this applies to the DC too). I feel lucky to have found this thread. I think there’s a lot of taboo around acknowledging ND/NT communication differences. When actually the only possible hope for people living with these differences (which can easily create difficulties) is to try to understand them better and then see where that takes us.

@ThischarmingHam we fight about this all the time. He gets shirty with me because I don’t know how to do what he wants when he hasn’t explained what he’s trying to do. Fought over the weekend about putting up a tent he’s done before but I’ve never and he just assumed I knew what he was asking.

I can totally relate. And it’s a mindfuck. It’s isolating too because on many levels it is abusive and controlling in effect but also it’s just not meant like that and it’s actually a permanent aspect of a disability, which raises all kinds of questions. It’s very hard to speak to anyone about.

@ThischarmingHam this is such a thing - the assumption that a counsellor will be an independent adjudicator. Because to them the only possible reason for disharmony in a relationship is if one party is WRONG. So our partners go into the process like you would go into a trial - prepared to fight tooth and nail to prove that we are WRONG and they are RIGHT.

Yay, black and white thinking! So helpful in relationships.

You’ve nailed it as always Bunnyhair. Counselling feels irrelevant to this kind of relationship really. My feeling is the future of the relationship only works long term if at least one of the two partners can be more compromising. Burden in this scenario is then 100% on the more flexible partner to work out how much compromise is too much, without trying not to be taken down by the process.
Very interesting reading how several of us on here have long term illnesses. Long term stress is really bad for health.

Just to add I've been really ill this week. Been off work the whole week and my child's father has been as usual 100% useless. He came round to see our child (not take care of him or take him
Off my hands) and I told him to leave as he was just another person I was cleaning up after he wasn't helping of any kind. To which he turned on me saying I don't appreciate he wants to see his son!! Well that's all great can you take him to your own place to see him?! I've struggled all week the worst illness with our 3 year old son and the weekend comes and asking him to take him out for a few hours is like I've asked if I can burn his house down. Oh the drama. No you cannot have therapy with these kind of people because it's totally pointless. Unless you want to snap yourself in half and tread on eggshells your whole life and never need them for anything they will always have a problem.

Well do you know I think I may have the one guilty of this. I wanted him to be told by someone else that his behaviour was wrong! The silent treatment, the snapping at me for no reason, his use of language (eg telling me I need to just stop fucking up all the time), the shouting….. it felt like abuse. And I know we come to this point again and again, but ASD or not, if it looks and smells like abuse then that’s how it’s experienced. I was (less so now) being emotionally abused. I desperately wanted someone to validate that. But he kept making it about our communication (but I think he meant me rather than himself) and how I needed to stop criticising him (but for me I was trying to tell him his behaviour was unacceptable and made me worthless and afraid. He perceived that as criticism. Would get angry and upset and felt that although there were things he needed to work on (and to be fair he did change some behaviours) mainly I needed to be better at communicating so that he didn’t feel criticised.

I needed someone to tell him his behaviour was awful though. Someone to back me up. I know this isn’t the point of counselling but I needed to be heard. I needed him to stop finding fault with me and look closer to home.

So I think perhaps it failed because I went in looking for validation maybe. And because the counsellor wasn’t an ND specialist and didn’t clock my DP is ASD. And because although the counsellor did try and help me get my views across, my DP just hijacked everything with his own feelings and agenda. Or perhaps because if one party is being abused then counselling isn’t going to help.

I’m so guilty of black and white thinking also. I get told all the time and I try so hard to check myself and remember people have different opinions and that’s ok.