Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 11

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

I was thinking of chengeing the thread Aspergers/ASD to ND, which I think might be more appropriate and inculsive, but I've left it as it is as I suspect many people find us by searching for Aspergers and/or ASD.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here

I look at it now I’m important, I’m all I will ever have and I am precious, if you don’t treat me well, autism or not in my partners case then you will not be in my life. That’s why I’ve cut out my in laws.

Oh and I’ve got abusive behaviours and in the wrong environment they will come out, I believe we all do. I need to make sure I’m in the right environment for me to thrive and not to get drawn into survival mode where all my shit needs come out. I don’t like myself when I’m triggered, it makes me sad so I will no longer put myself in those situations. It’s not up to others to change so I can thrive it’s up to me to remove myself.

One of the best things about this thread is that people can be honest about their experiences without everyone piling on straight away with "it's abuse! Leave him now!"

So while there are some good points, I do think intent matters.

One of the things that helped with my dh was precisely helping him gradually realise that the behaviour was abusive in its result even if not by intent.

Another was : you can choose to talk like that, but I have the choice to listen or not. Then systematically go for a drive if he got snappy.

I did have to lay clear rules and boundaries and they do still sometimes get broken but much less, for less long, and the apology is more forthcoming.

Recently I complained about something and was fully expecting an explosion that never came. I got kindness instead. Miracles do happen.

@Commonsense22 you made a massive point. I 100% give the benefit of the doubt and in my past relationship way more than I should. If the person is open to communicating and takes on board your needs then that’s worth trying. If the other person still can’t change or won’t do anything proactive to check their behaviour then that’s the end of it. No way should the other person absorb the “behaviour” and twist and change and damage themselves mentally or physically for the other person, intent or not. There has got to be self preservation involved.

I’m saying that my DP is obsessed with fault. I do find it abusive when he shouts at me. He tries to deflect the blame by explaining it as frustration (not his fault) rather than anger (his fault). I’m saying it’s all bollocks. He is shouting and trying to make it sound like it’s my fault is victim blaming. I don’t care who he thinks is at fault. He’s raising his voice at me for no reason and he shouldn’t be doing it. That’s my personal boundary: I don’t want to tolerate being shouted at whatever the explanation or intent!

Whether it’s anger or frustration it doesn’t really matter because the outcome for you is pretty much the same.
This is exactly the point I’m making. It’s him that’s trying to make the distinction about intent or fault. As I say it just sounds like victim blaming to me!

The only time I come up with the question of intent is because of capacity to change. DP at least recognises he shouldn’t be shouting and that I don’t like it. He still does it, but less than he used to and will often apologise afterwards. My dad shouts and if I said “I don’t like shouting. Please don’t shout at me again” he will barely register I’ve spoken. What I like or don’t like is an alien concept to him. There is zero recognition and zero capacity for change. The man is a write off!

DP is trying. I mean I think my boundaries are still crossed too often, and I may well need to look for my own space to live because of this. But, whereas I don’t really want a relationship with my dad anymore, I do want a relationship with my DP and have not ruled out us living together some of the time in future.

So intent is important to me. But I do take your point about boundaries and I am not trying to explain or minimise his behaviour. But I think DP is, and I am trying to understand his thinking. Doesn’t mean I agree with it. I don’t!!

I don’t wash shoes at all 😳
(but to be fair we don’t get out much 😂)

@BustyLaRoux how can you ever really understand his thinking? I’m not even sure it really matters. He doesn’t think the same as you or have the same morals or the same beliefs or boundaries for whatever reason ND related or not. My ex shouts at his current partner and unlike me she isn’t bothered by it, she shouts in return, they all shouting and happy. Baffles me!

I really think Busty’s analysis is a good one. And I think its quite useful to think through the deep causes or psychological structures that underpin these behaviors. It makes them more predictable. And it gives us more control over the situation.

I would assume that a person with ling undiagnosed ASD, or late diagnosed, or with incompetent parenting, would have a very difficult time of it with criticism or perceived fault finding. Not understanding other people’s intentions or experiences must have led quickly to lots of mysterious ruptures in the past (mysterious to the ASD child or adolescent). I did (sensible thing) and parents or teachers criticized me for it must be a very well worn mental pathway for them. . Getting angry with you at the outset must feel very necessary, or at least familiar.

@Rainbow03 🫂🫂🫂

All of those comments were simply shitty.
I can see why you went NC.

ME I’m quite used to see people not understanding. In some ways, I think that until you’ve experienced it, few people can actually ‘get’ what ME is.

But the divorce? Comments about your dd when they have a child on the spectrum themselves? In which planet are they living?

I think another issue re the shouting is that there is no agreement they are shouting but oh well as an autistic person I am unable to control the pitch. Even though they are going red in the face and the face is clearly showing anger along with their body stance. I guess it's back to boundary again and what is acceptable for each of us.

I agree with your analysis.

But I think the danger, one that I fell into before, is that reasons become excuses. And that, because they can’t help it/it’s so hard for them, then YOU are the one who is a bad person for not putting up with it.

Well at least that’s what I’ve been taught. My mum stayed with my dad despite daily rages all because ‘you know he had a hard childhood’. Well yes he had. My dad’s parents were abusive narcissists.
It took me an extremely long time to learn that a reason, like childhood abuse or ASD or trauma, doesn’t mean it’s ok to for anyone to treat you badly. And that not accepting to be badly treated doesn’t mean you’re a bad person.

Or it could be linked to alexithymia, in that they don’t actually know they are angry.

My DH genuinely does not correctly identify voice pitch or tone, so that's an issue. So if I say "oh wow" because there's a beautiful rainbow, he will freak out because he associates the words with a crisis.
If I say "bother" when dropping my keys, same thing.

Yes it’s an easy trap for people to fall into. I do think trying to understand why a person behaves as they do it’s important to me. I kept wondering why he thought substituting “frustration” for “anger” made it more acceptable, as it certainly didn’t for me. I was like “call it what you like but you’re still shouting at me and I still don’t like it!”

Whilst I can excuse the odd outburst (I am certainly not perfect and shout at my kids sometimes, though I try hard not to!) I cannot allow someone to routinely shout at me and ex use themselves by saying “well I’m autistic” or “you frustrated me so it’s fine”.

I completely agree with you @SpecialMangeTout A reason is helpful to understand but it shouldn’t be an excuse for unacceptable behaviour. This is why I get so irritated by my SIL who keeps telling me I should forgive my dad as it’s not his fault. I don’t care. It was horrible growing up with him. He is often horrible now. I completely understand him and why he is like this but I am not going to minimise the impact it’s had on me and use it as an excuse for the shitty upbringing I had. It is a reason, but it is not an excuse.

@Simplefoke i think it does matter. Understanding people definitely helps me. Otherwise why does anyone bother seeking a diagnosis for anything? We like to understand ourselves and understand others. But I have a psychology background so for me it is interesting if nothing else. You know when you’re sitting in a traffic jam on the motorway. And it’s been a while and everyone is getting pissed off. And people start craning their necks and getting out their cars to see if they can see what’s causing it? Let’s say in the distance you can see a few sets of blue lights up ahead. So you sit back down. You’re not going to move any quicker because you know there’s been an accident. But for some reason we like to know the cause of things as it brings some peace of mind. It might not change the outcome. You’re still sitting in the traffic jam but you can roughly see how long the jam is and you can think “gosh I hope everyone is OK” and maybe get some perspective. For whatever reason, understanding the cause of things may not change anything but it’s something we seek as human beings. At least I do anyway! :)

I often say to service people/NT people “this is not your fault but it is your problem”

This is something some people can not tolerate: every problem is a fault.

If its not ever possible to have a verbal or non verbal signal that short circuits the shame spiral then I just don’t see how you proceed.

It sounds an awful lot like trying to convince yourself that the behaviour is ok because it can’t be helped and I can understand it. I may be wrong. You can’t make something ok and acceptable just because you understand it, you can’t stop the person from being the way they are. You cant understand the damage out of it. I could be completely wrong. If there’s absolutely no way out like you trapped in the jungle and you need to figure out how to survive then yeah but we can leave relationships (hopefully).

I feel so overwhelmed with what needs to change in our relationship - it seems absolutely unmanageable and impossible.

Since I removed myself on Sunday (posted earlier) - DH told me off like a child and making snide comments at me because I hadn’t waited outside the restaurant toilet but had gone outside assuming he’d be waiting there as usual with DS ... DS (special needs) shouted ‘Do Not Argue!

DH had been so unfriendly all weekend, barely speaking to me, not appearing to be listening when I talk to him - looking elsewhere and not really responding (he can be like this for weeks / months at a time) I suddenly flipped with the snide comments and very calmly kissed DS goodbye and said I was going home and left them to it.

I did text him so not to cause a scene in front of DS to say I didn’t appreciate being told off like a child because of where I was waiting for him. Which he never responded to. Fine. But at least he knew part of what my issue was.

That evening ...
I was in the sitting room - he spent the evening in the kitchen

Monday AM
He said ’ very tight ’'bye’ when he left and I said bye back

Monday PM
He got back from work after I’d gone to the sitting room for the eve.
He spent the evening in the kitchen

Tuesday AM
I left first and kissed him goodbye.

Tuesday PM
He was out until after I’d gone to bed.

Today AM
He left first and kissed me goodbye. I said ‘bye’ ... and he rolled his eyes and shook his head as I started saying ‘have a good day’. Which has annoyed and saddened me so much.

He’s out tonight.

And so we have stalemate. I know he thinks I’m wrong. I don’t.

Things will stay just like this unless I become all bubbly and friendly as if nothing’s happened.

I'm glad we have this place to vent and find support.

Here's to each working out what our boundaries are, changing what we can and accepting what can't change.

Peace, hope and hugs to everyone who needs them.

@CinnamonTart i know how you feel. He is convinced you’re wrong, but you know in your heart that he is. And yet you’ll have to be the one who makes peace when what you really want is for him to say sorry for speaking to you like a naughty child (my DP speaks to me like this. I feel about 10 years old!) and sorry for being an arse all weekend.

If it helps I like to remind myself that pleasantness and cordiality are the most important things to me. Peace. I need that more than I need him to apologise, more than I need him to recognise or acknowledge (much as I would like those things as well).

So I say in my head that he’s a dickhead and if he wants to stew in his own righteousness then fuck him. I actually don’t care. I am going to go about my business with a cheerful smile and I couldn’t give two shits what he does. If he wants to stew then he can go for it. Usually my pleasant mood means he can’t keep up the stewing and he will start to thaw pretty quickly. And before long we are just chatting as normal and he’s forgotten to feel aggrieved and annoyed. I put my emotional wall up and I refuse to let his shitty moods affect me too much. Or I just arrange to go out as much as possible and he gets bored without me and starts missing my company. Serves him right for being so grumpy and volatile.

I don’t know if that would work for your DH. Can you just ignore him and his shittiness?? Can you keep busy and put up your emotional wall to limit how much he upsets you?

I know it isn’t ideal. Ideally we could talk to our partners and explain why they have upset us and they would say sorry, but hey…… we might be waiting a really long time before that happens.

This. A dear autistic friend of mine with a very short temper used to insist that he wasn’t angry, he was just BORED!

@CinnamonTart this sounds unbearable. And just so fucking childish as well. All this draggy pointless aggro over basically nothing. And no possibility of talking about it like adults.

What are you feeling?

Put up a huge wall calendar and mark off each day of coldness and say cheerily “Another day of our precious life wasted with your spiteful behaviour!”

Hello, just really need to be able to vent a little right now...hope that's OK! (DH and teenage DS are autistic.)

Barely a day passes without one or the other and often both having a meltdown. Really hard to live/deal with, especially when I'm at the receiving end of their less than pleasant behaviour. Just really feeling fed up and down with it all today.

Sometimes, it would just be nice if they considered how it all affects me, or just gave me a moment's thought from time to time, instead of just assuming I'm always going to just always meet all of their needs without complaint, no matter how they behave.

Thank you all so much for your support - I feel validated - a completely alien experience!

@BustyLaRoux you are so right.

What I’ve actually decided to do this time is to mirror him. He hasn’t instigated any conversations this week (he very rarely does) and he only gets fired up about talking about his special interest (work) - so I only agree to go out if I feel able to cope with feeling like I’m in a board room all evening (I can’t get him to talk about anything else) / he isn’t in a shitty mood where he’s target me half way through the evening.

He did finally message me today asking how my day was. So I said I was pensive and asked about his. His reply was to tell me about his day. He hasn’t asked why I was pensive (totally fine). But as a result, I haven’t asked anything further about his day when usually I would have asked questions about what he’d just said. This is how it works face to face too.

I know if I was to ask why he hadn’t asked me any questions, he would say ‘I don’t have any. There's nothing to ask or say’.

I want to use this to demonstrate that all conversation flows only if I do the ducking and diving and question asking.

He’s absolutely obsessed with the fact that people never ask him about him and only want to talk about themselves - when it is in fact 100% the other way around.

I know I sound as if I’m being childish - but I feel that this time he needs to feel how it is for me to have any hope of being able to recognise how his behaviour affects me and the kids.

They come to say goodnight and he won’t even raise an eye from his computer. It’s so disheartening and it kills me.

@PurpleStarrySocks I so hear you. With DH there’s self-absorbed-ness about it - that’s not unlike a toddler tantrum. His needs come well above and beyond anyone else’s/