What is the best way to deal with someone who is passive aggressive?

[Pennies]

My mother's silent and wholly negative body language is doing my head in. Her "victim" act is second to none and she sighs as if we're all doomed.

I really hate it. I can't stand the guilt and I fed up of trying so hard to please her. If I ask her what's wrong she says nothing is up and I know that when she goes (she's sating for a few days) she'll tell me what a wonderful time she had (and she'll probably send me a fucking thank you letter too) when everything tells me she wants to be sitting at home. smoking fags and doing absolultely bloody nothing at all until Death comes.

No comments on loneliness and depression. She has both. I've tried to help her with both for the last 20 years. Nothing's bloody worked and now I've had enough.

Flight, hmmmm - can't help but think you might know me though I've no idea who you might be, but you're getting it spot on and coffee cake is my absolute favourite. Lashings of icing please, and a nice cup of builders, quickly chased by a glass of very dry white.

We've done assessment, her GP has had her on ADs for years, I've spoken to the GP abut further treatment but it's not a goer - more below.

She's had normal counselling and CBT (both arranged by me, the latter after the former normal counsellor initally after first meeting her and stating that she was the most acutely depressed person she'd encountered in all her career to then saying nine sessions later that she was "cured" ). The Whole Works.

I did start to press for a more professional medical approach (psychiatric help) but her GP says that beyond ADs the only thing available is electro therapies which I know they wouldn't go down that route because it could damage the repair work done in her brain after her bleed. Anyway, I know it's not done a la 1950s One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest styleee but nonetheless that still has those connotations for her (we've talked about it) and I could never make her feel that it was ever something anyone would make happen to her.

Still no notion of acceptance, then. Just more effort at how you wish her to be? IT does look like there is isn't much hope of improving things until you start to think differently about her.

I'm with Panino.
I can't agree with this notion of "managing" old people for our convenience.
But then again, I have not had to face the situation so God know how i'll deal with it.
Sorry can't be anymore help.
Hope you find a solution that suits you.
take care.

Oh Pennies, I don't know if I know you, but I really did have some coffee cake around yesterday and it sounds like you could use it!!!
Slim - I believe it is extremely hard to accept a parent being very ill. I presume, and I may be wrong, that if your mother were physically suffering and obviously in distress and unhappy, you might want to try and get her some treatment. This is no different.

Pennies - I see that you have gone a long way to try and get her some professional help already. I think all that is left to you, really, is to try and find a way inside your own consciousness to stop the behaviour getting to you an unreasonable amount.

Ie, stop allowing her to be in charge of your children, if you think she may not be up to the job. Have her to stay if you must, but do it in the manner you would were she not your mother - see her as a poorly friend, an elderly lady you are having to stay for a bit, who is not really capable of or expected to help out. Don't do it out of obligation, because that will make you angry.
It has to be under your control I think.

Oh Pennies, I don't know if I know you, but I really did have some coffee cake around yesterday and it sounds like you could use it!!!
Slim - I believe it is extremely hard to accept a parent being very ill. I presume, and I may be wrong, that if your mother were physically suffering and obviously in distress and unhappy, you might want to try and get her some treatment. This is no different.

Pennies - I see that you have gone a long way to try and get her some professional help already. I think all that is left to you, really, is to try and find a way inside your own consciousness to stop the behaviour getting to you an unreasonable amount.

Ie, stop allowing her to be in charge of your children, if you think she may not be up to the job. Have her to stay if you must, but do it in the manner you would were she not your mother - see her as a poorly friend, an elderly lady you are having to stay for a bit, who is not really capable of or expected to help out. Don't do it out of obligation, because that will make you angry.
It has to be under your control I think.

You have one choice, which is do you see your Mum or do you leave her on her own, and if you are going to see her then I do believe you need to accept her as she is and somehow deal with it. It is something I reckon most of us would resist, if our parents were not acting like parents should, and could not help us in a 'normal' way with our own children and so on, without causing problems - but it's probably all you can realistically do, as it sounds as though she is unlikely to change at this point.

Sorry I am having server problems atm! Only posts short messages so I have to split them and then it does two at once

Sorry

Oh FGS this is NOT about managing her for my convenience. It's about trying to bring an old lady some happiness the only ways I know how.

And Panino what's with your sarcasm? Not helpful. I challenge you to just "accept" the mental decline of your own parent overnight.

Over and out. Thanks Flight for your advice, and for not lecturing me.

Sorry Pennies - no sarcasm intended, or read into it by me. I wouldn't say it's either easy nor quick to adjust your approach to one's parents, when we've spent our lives regarding them in a different way.
From whay you say, I would assert that I almost know that I am right, though obv. it is so much clearer and easier when "on the outside looking in" rather than the other way round.
But it is with bell-like clarity that you WILL become even more frustrated with your mum if you try to 'up her performance'.

haven't read the whole thread but - can I suggest you eat a gluten free diet while she is staying with you? Because long standing depression can respond very well to a gluten free diet and it probably isn't something she'd try herself. A wheat intolerance can cause a severe lack of energy (falling asleep on a hillside?) and depression. I have dealt with my own problems this way after a recommendation from a friend who had been practically suicidal for years. Accidental ingestion of gluten sends me to sleep in the afternoons.

Obviously this is not the problem for everyone but it is one that should always be tried because if it is the issue it is life changing. I now have the energy to visit a gym regularly .

Sounds a nightmare... poor you.

I agree that pushing her to get help won't do anything except frustrate you more.

As draining as her behaviour is to you, I'd say she's gaining strength form leaning on you and treating you like an ol' crutch.

Being the martyr is her way of coping. That's so much easier, and a more familiar coping mechanism than going to get proper help. Which would mean admitting that SHE is not always the martyr!!!

I agree with the pp who said you should take her at face value and act like a man. I think that is the number one thing you could do that would change the dynamics of your victim/perp relationship.

If you go out for a meal and she says her meal doesn't taste nice, instead of sympahtising, say "Mine is gorgeous! "- sounds cruel perhaps. But it's a tactic.

I wonder why she wanted to go to the battle of Bosworth place. perhaps it has significance in her family and she wants to make sense or relate to her past by experiencing it in that way. I wonder if by going there with her (PITA as it would be) it would enable her to open up a little.

Sounds silly I know but I often find we treat our parents as if they're life and they're history only began when they had us and everything that went before is put away - along with all the issues and emotions that they suppress to get on with being parents to us. Then later in life, in the latest stages I guess, that stuff becomes opressive and shows itself in this crushing depression.

As silly as it sounds, going to that place was something she wanted to do that may have made her not happy, but engaged IYSWIM and may have opened the gates.

What all the meant is that do something SHE wants to do - and if that is the only thing she had indicated would interest her then do that and see what happens!!

Pennies, this must be very painful to watch in your mother whom you love. But I have a huge amount of sympathy for your mum too. Have you ever had depression? It is akin to being the walking dead (or it was with me). And whilst you are grateful for the kindness of other people, unfortunately it doesn't always make any difference to how you feel.
Rather than trying to 'cope' with her, I would just be the person you always are and let her keep up with your moods. As you cannot affect her state of mind, I would try not to let her affect yours too much either. I think you are a very nice daughter for inviting her over even though you dread. It's a shame the experience isn't more rewarding for either of you, but at least you both care eough still do see each other.

Bollox to the spelling mistakes

Pennies - for you.

Sorry haven't time to read all posts so sorry if I am repeating. I don't think she will ever change. I think you need to accept her as she is.

I have great sympathy. You need to lower your expectations of her so that she can no longer disappoint you.

Pennies - I feel so sad for you and your mother.You've tried so hard and it's enormously frustrating.
What is it that you love in her? Are there memories and/or shared experiences that give you both pleasure? I was wondering if you are able to have any small moments of happiness together these days and if so could you build on them? She doesn't sound like a bundle of laughs,I must say, but are there any moments that make you both smile. I think she must know that she is disappointing you and if she could believe that you could genuinely enjoy her company for a little while it might help you both.