What is the best way to deal with someone who is passive aggressive?

[Pennies]

My mother's silent and wholly negative body language is doing my head in. Her "victim" act is second to none and she sighs as if we're all doomed.

I really hate it. I can't stand the guilt and I fed up of trying so hard to please her. If I ask her what's wrong she says nothing is up and I know that when she goes (she's sating for a few days) she'll tell me what a wonderful time she had (and she'll probably send me a fucking thank you letter too) when everything tells me she wants to be sitting at home. smoking fags and doing absolultely bloody nothing at all until Death comes.

No comments on loneliness and depression. She has both. I've tried to help her with both for the last 20 years. Nothing's bloody worked and now I've had enough.

Slim - the "I want" thing is in response to Pavlov's question of 23.42:43 so please don't give the me PA label. Believe, it's absolutely not how I am.

Is it so off the wall to hope that a physically healthy woman who lives independently might possibly interact with her grandchildren? Don't get me wrong. I'm not asking her to get grandparent of the year award or be a substitute parent. I just want her to know her only grandchildren. They're potenitally a huge source of fun, brightness and entertainment for her that she's vageuly acknowldgeing but not embracing.

No, Pennies, not off the wall. But the word "acceptance", for the way she is keeps coming round and round.

I accept the accpetance bit. ut part of me feels that is it also choosing to ignore it and as she lives a long way away from us and we see her rarely I can't afford to ignore / accept because it essentailly means hardly seeing her and as she gets older that's hardly fair on her.

Acceptance ISN'T ignoring. It's "managing" your emotional responses to her. You are attempting the impossible imho, and getting nowhere and seething over it. THIS bit isn't her fault. This bit is yours to problem solve, and one way is to accept the way she is and conduct your rel. with her based in this acceptance.

I do see though that you are some way from being there. You're making demands on her that she will never satisfy.

Pennies, sorry it came across like that, I was smiling when I wrote that because I was thinking of y sister. I know how you feel. My own wish list is endless when I think about my relationship with my mother AND my father!

I only see them once or twice a year as I live across the globe. When I was in a country just 3 hours away, they visited only once (over 8 years) when DS was born out of duty I guess. Yet they expected me to come over for holidays.
I did and every time felt like I was a burden after a few days.

Now I do not make any specific efforts. Take things as they come. Go and visit if it suits my plans. Speak on the phone regularly and exchange news. Civil.Loving but not overly involved.

What can I say. They are my mum and dad. They'll be gone soon enough. Just trying to make the most of it without ruining my mental health. I'm much much happier since I've made that mental shift.

Yes as Panino said "managing your emotional response to her"

Oh bugger. No pavlov, not directed at anyone in particular, I recall feeling that there was a bit of a lack of sympathy for the OP initially from many quarters - not going to delve into who said what cos I can't remember!
Sorry for any offence.
Shit this is too hard for my little brain, thanks Mhamai... can I be your first client please!

Practise on me for free if you like. Nothing can make it worse

How do you lot manage to be on form this time of night? I am pretty hot at 5am when nobody except me and Buda are here. And my darling Buda has no problems anyway so I'm off the hook!

I know I seem quite a bitch in my approach to her but I hope you can see that the reaons I label her PA is that I'm in a position whereby I have to accpet her behaviour even though it's making everyone unhappy (DB can't stand it, SIL is at her wits end, DH can't be bothered with her and my LO's are just plain confused by some of what she does).

If I'm making demands on her that she will never satisfy, surely the ame applies to her? She is making demands on us that are unreasonable too, in that we have to put up with this behavious, we can't go to her house because of how her dog are, but she doesn't wnat to come to ours because it's too much hard work, but then she's lonely because she never sees us. No-one can ever win and we all feel guilty as a result.

So we get clobbered with having to accpet and therefore modify our behaviour to suit her? Or am I totally misunderstanding this?

reread all slim22s contributions.

Helpful, wise and considered

Pennies - I do think your post their was an indication of the 'wrong end of the telescope' bit.

it isn't a behavioural thing with you that has to change first. IMO it's how you are viewing her, how she isn't doing the things or responding in a way that you want her to. How you are assessing her as being "able" whe nshe isn't. And the family as you say appear to be doing hte same thing. Accepting her for the way she is (plainly said, I know) will change your behaviour and your emotional capacity in maintaining a rel. with her will vastly improve.

and she IS old. Maybe she is due a bit of behaviour change from the people who love her most?

late hour. Good luck with her. Sounds very difficult.

Thanks horsish!
It's easier to have wise words when you've made it to the other side...which will be a big leap Penny.
This is a situation where we start grieving the loss of a parent before it actually happens.

Pennies, Let's see it this way: you can exhaust yourself trying the impossible or stop wasting energy and focus on being happy. For that you have to loose the guilt.

You want to make efforts? fine, but then stop moaning about it.
You don't want to make efforts? fine but find a way to loose the guilt.

I don't see that many more solutions in a situation like this.

"accepet and therefore modify our behaviour to suit her" Yes. She's the one who will be gone sooner rather than later. Let her have it her way since it's not toxic in any way.

You have tried many different approaches and none of them have had the desired effect.

She cannot or does not want to change.

In order to maintain your sanity, you simply have to carry on AS NORMAL for you and you have to speak to her as if she is a normal person.

Tiptoeing around her in any way simply reinforces her behaviour and her 'specialness'.

Think of her as like a small child behaving badly. Who knows, subconsciously she may still be trying to get her long dead parents' attention.

Ignore the bad and reinforce the good (if you can find any good).

The only change you can make here is in how you think about your situation. That, ironically, is the only thing that might help her. If her behaviour gets her NO attention whatsoever, she MIGHT do something different.

You really have my sympathy though - she sounds very very difficult

I think OP is speaking out of grief and frustration, which is a slightly different form of anger.
It is really really sad.
Not sure about the line 'in no way toxic' because it is obviously very hurtful for the OP, whether her mother is conscious of her behaviour or not.
It's hard to judge without knowing both very well.
I hope you can get through this Pennies, it sounds both heartbreaking and incredibly energy draining for you. Your mother would probably benefit from some professional help, perhaps you might try and insist with her GP or a areworker (they are available for the old, especially if she is really in a bad way - which she evidently is) that she gets assessed and then some help with her needs.

I think OP is speaking out of grief and frustration, which is a slightly different form of anger.
It is really really sad.
Not sure about the line 'in no way toxic' because it is obviously very hurtful for the OP, whether her mother is conscious of her behaviour or not.
It's hard to judge without knowing both very well.
I hope you can get through this Pennies, it sounds both heartbreaking and incredibly energy draining for you. Your mother would probably benefit from some professional help, perhaps you might try and insist with her GP or a areworker (they are available for the old, especially if she is really in a bad way - which she evidently is) that she gets assessed and then some help with her needs.

SECOND HALF (it won't post long posts atm!?)

My Grandmother came to live here a few years ago and my mum pushed very hard to liaise with the Drs surgery to get her referred, assessed and then a care package put in place.
It has really taken the pressure off as Mum no longer has to do everything for her.
She is my Dad's mother btw but he is so complex about her that he can't be much help practically, he just goes flaky around her!
You might feel a bit less guilty if you have organised some other support for her.
They did take note of the depression in my Grandmother btw, not just her physical stuff. She is (I quote my neighbour) 'the biggest black hole I have ever met'
and I am sorry to say I see her about twice a year, despite living round the corner - because my mother likes to feel she is in charge, so it gets complicated - they bitch about each other and then about me, so I keep out of it! Agh

Anyway sorry for the confused posts last night, I hope you know what I was on about even if nobody else did, I was a bit dopey
Hope you got some sleep at least x

Pennies - being a family member of someone who is mentally ill is HARD. You have all my sympathies, and I don't think there is anything you can 'do' to make her change.

But, just as the relative of an alcoholic in denial can go to Al-ANON, you can find therapeutic support for yourself - CBT could be useful, but so could a family counsellor/therapist.

Hey Pennies,

You could be describing my mum. Stuck in the past, childish, difficult to interact, doesn't listen, self obsessed, runs a relationship on guilt, is ALWAYS ill, difficult childhood...

I believe she has (my mum) Narcissistic Personality disorder (google it). The traits are:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement
6. is interpersonally exploitative
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

I don't know if this will be helpful to you, but it made me realise it wasn't ME that was crazy.

BTW, I posted abot her on a message board once and people responded how they have responded here, by blaming me. This increased my guilt, when I was guilty about the relationship anyway.

Please believe me, none of this is your fault.

Now to solutions...mmmm...??? I am not great at this, i just take it one phone call/ visit at a time. You have to be tough, try to be upbeat/happy, you have to remember she is mentally ill. Hopefully once you have done some research and some more reading, you will feel more confident. Could you leave the kids with her. Me and my brothers find that moods/illnesses/childishness miraculously disappear when just left with grandkids. She can let go of the games.

Hope this helps. I look forward to your reponse. xxx

Good grief! going down the mental illness route is a bit OTT no?

No, utterly not OTT Slim. In fact I would suggest it were probably an accurate description of Pennies' poor Mum.
Why do you not think she is mentally ill? If I saw someone who lived with animals that soiled their home and took little or no pleasure in things others would enjoy, i would think tey were mentally ill. And being mentally ill myself without even the qualification of the messy pets
I do know a bit about the subject.

Totally OTT because you are totally speculating!

Pennies never said anything in that sense. Just describing an old lady who doesn't care anymore.
Many 70 year olds are slightly depressive because they realise most of their life is behind them, they are physically on the decline and that takes a toll on their enthousiasm. Not need to over analyze.

Anyway, since Pennies has left the discussion I'm going to leave it at that.

Pennies, hope you find patience and strength to deal with the situation.

Take care

Yes, I'm speculating, we all are, or rather making informed suppositions based on lots of info supplied.
Hope that Pennies has got something useful from us lot even if we couldn't agree on anything

I'm still here - reeling after she left my two year old to wander off alone whilst we were in a really busy pub and I was taking my other DD to the loo. This is twice that she's done something like that now and each time I've been clear about how I feel about it (so not PA if anyone else still thinks that's how I'm being) and she just doesn't get it. I'm feeling so disappointed and sad about it - I can't see how she can foster much of a meaningful relationship with her grandkids at this rate.

I do actually think that she is mentally ill - she did have a brain haemorrhage (which I can never spell) 7 years ago which I know can take a huge toll on the mind in terms of depression etc. But she was depressive before then anyway.

Oh gosh, how awful that must have been today
Depression is a mental illness of course. Is there a way you might be able to get her assessed? It would take toe onus off you a bit if someone else 'took her on' as it were, someone with the training and distance to cope with her frame of mind.

Sorry you had a rotten day.