Do men struggle to commit to independent women?

[Legacyloops]

I know not all men are the same. But generally do women who have a decent income, house and generally no need for a man find that men just don't seem to commit to them. I feel like maybe it almost works against you if you don't need them to support you in any way. Like are they looking for a damsel in distress?

I don't know if it's just the men I've been with but none of them ever seem to bring up a future, children, buying a house together. I feel like I've dated different types of men and starting to wonder if it's me at this point 😂 I did have one partner move in at one point, but always felt like he didn't really like the idea despite being together a few years, but when he moved on to the next girlfriend they moved in together after a few months.
I've been in a relationship for 18 months and the closest we've gotten to conversation about the future is he would consider maybe moving in together in a few years. I've brought up in conversation about maybe putting my house up for sale next spring because I want to get a few things done on the house and garden before selling, he asked what the rush to sell is. I think he's hoping I hold on for the indefinite period of time before he would consider getting a house together, but tbh I don't want to wait years to see if this is gonna happen. We are adults in our 30s I feel like waiting 3-4 years (maybe more, who knows) to see if you want to live together seems pointless, I'd rather sell up next year when I'm ready and if he's not ready to move together, then I plan to go ahead with finding my forever home, because at this point I can't see a future where any man willingly commits and I might as well just go get what I want.
I feel like if I lost my job and needed to move in with him then he would offer, but I would like commitment, without a specific need forcing it

I am not judging my friends who are single mothers or living at home, they are my friends after all. I am simply trying to point out the difference I see in my own life where the women are having a harder time than some of my other friends and men seem to treat a relationship differently with the ones who may have reason to become more dependent on them. Financial dependency being the more obvious factor that I see.

I think you need to have a chat - 18 months should be long enough to talk about the future.

If he wants a needy woman he is likely insecure and needs a trophy wife to control for his ego. My ex who was like this never asked anything about my life, didn't care about my turbulent childhood at all, couldn't tell you anything I actually liked - the aim for them isn't about getting to know a person, it's more akin to having a pet.

You need to figure out which kind of man he is.

OP, the opposite for me. I'm independent, make lots of money (PhD in STEM and work in financial services), own big London house, massive pension, have a very busy life and my partner wants to commit more than I want to. Had similar in the past. He's not the right man full stop. I feel also he can sense that you are insecure and that's why he's reluctant to commit, if he thought you WILL walk away if he doesn't commit and that's what you want, he would commit.

So I would say goodbye and good luck and meet someone who's willing to commit to you

This man is not for you. Please value yourself, you have achieved goals many haven't.

A half arseed man who wants half arsed commitment is not a prize.

In my experience, men lock down what they want. The other more vulnerable women you mention may be attractive as their men feel they have the upper hand on them. Who wants that?

We were engaged at 18 months, married and pregnant 6 months later. He was only 24 at the time. When men see you as 'the one' they don't mess about.

When we met I was independent/owned my own house etc. Now he pays all of the bills and doesn't expect me to contribute if I don't want to (I work part time now completely by choice).

Not ime, no. I have a friend who is very wealthy and successful and she's fending them off with sticks. As soon as they get a glimpse of her lifestyle they cant wait to sign up for life. It has made it difficult for her to find a man she trusts to be genuine though, and I doubt she would be rushing to commit as she has a lot to lose.

If you can’t have a proper conversation with him after 18 months it’s never going to work. DH told me he wanted to have children and marry me within 12 weeks.

I don’t know you at all but your writing style is very clinical like your writing a technical report.

I think your problem is this @Legacyloops - I don't know if it's just the men I've been with but none of them ever seem to bring up a future, children, buying a house together.

I don't think men (of which I am one) are generally in a rush to progress a relationship. I don't think it matters if you're an independant women, or one who "needs rescuing" etc.

Men are generally happy with what they have right now. I liked the early parts of relationships where we lived apart, made it more exciting when we see each other. I also liked the parts where we lived together, and the parts where we had kids, but I never felt a pressing urge to move on from one part to the next. That only happened because of external factors. (One girlfriend getting kicked out of her house share, one deciding that we needed to move in together. And in the case of current DP, having a baby.)

Yes, men are still generally the ones to propose, but I guarantee that most of the time there will have been a conversation first initiated by the woman in the relationship.

Men have the luxury of time in a way women don't. Women need to have kids by a certain age, which means they want stability first, which means marriage by this point, moving in x amount of time before that. Men are generally happy just enjoying what they've got. They've got years and years before having a kid becomes a pressing issue.

They might think they do, but unless they're wealthy they may find they don't have a queue of women to have children with by the time they get round to wanting one. My colleague had that attitude, no rush to settle, in his own words 'let some good relationships go', then at 45 when it suddenly seemed like a good idea to have a family, any woman interested in him had completed her own family already and/or had passed the age of having more children. He's 55 now and the young fertile childless women he thought would be all waiting to have his babies have yet to materialise.

Yes, I wish I had known this 20 years ago. It took me a long long time to realise that men do prefer the meek little woman in the corner that needs rescuing. It baffled me why men backed off when they discovered I had my own property and did not need them to look after me! The naivety of youth.lol

You're right of course, but that doesn't stop them feeling like they have all the time in the world

Bit rude about the op @ViciousCurrentBun! I think she writes very coherently and clearly. It's bound to knock your confidence if you want a relationship and you keep encountering men who seemingly are happy to be in a long-term relationship with you, but won't fully commit, but subsequently commit straight away afterwards.

@5128gap always surprises me men who want kids leave it late. So much research on epigenetics shows male sperm is integral to health and intelligence attainment; the older the man, the more problems his sperm have. Not only does count drop but the quality can have huge impacts on the health and lifespan of the child.

We always hear about "geriatric" mothers and never about the reality of what old sperm does to offspring.

Yes, this too. It's rarely acknowledged though, is it? They all seem to think they're as virile and fertile as they were in their 20s.

Tbf I’d have dumped my now husband for being a desperate love bomber if he’d announced this after twelve weeks! How on earth can you know someone after that time?

I’m pleased it has worked out for you so far but it’s clearly not the norm or desirable in any way.

I go on Reddit sometime and there’s a recurring theme along the lines of.
A man has the choice of a shit hot wealthy, intelligent and independent 30 something lawyer or a teenage trad wife virgin waitress. Guess which wins every time?

Yes, then 5 years later they're back warning men about child maintenance and evil women taking all their money. Go figure.

In my experience most financially solvent men are very keen on financially independent women who aren’t looking for a man to bankroll them and aren’t going to be a threat to his assets.

Agree independence is a red herring - people of all income and assets and personalities and looks successfully marry and mate.

If someone (either men or women) kept having the same dynamics, their picker is probably off, or they're overlooking red flags and forcing a relationship that shouldn't be forced.

Hard to know without more detail.

If someone is serious, I'd say the vibe is there very soon and no doubts.

I'm not a workaholic myself, but I am wary of the narratives saying it's easy for women who aren't independent to get an affluent protective man....

(Yes, maybe if she looks like a model and is young and already in the same posh social circles - "just working as a secretary or waitress whilst living in Daddy's flat in Mayfair!").

Each to their own and if the dynamic works it works.

But overall, there simply aren't enough of these generous traditional high earning men willing to swoop in and look after all these non-independent women.

So it's making yourself vulnerable to not have something of your own.

I worked in Waitrose as a student job, and though I enjoyed it (staff discount..."smoked salmon again, damn!") there were lots of older women working there who seemed fairly bitter.

They'd relied on partner to take care of everything, but then partners salary had stagnated, and they hadn't built up any other options or finances.

Staying at home baking cakes and being traditional and vulnerable couldn't get their partner to earn more money or change the economy.

So now rather than actively choose a job, they had to pick the first thing going, had lost confidence, and seemed to find it quite demeaning and got quite angry at their partners and life and their family situation.

If they'd put energy into even matching their partners, two 30k salaries is 4000 a month.

(No, there weren't these alpha male millionaires waiting to rescue middle-aged mums working in a shop, just creepy old men who could only afford the bargain corner and harassed all the females there).

Choose a job or finances might make one choose you!

I don't think everyone should be a high flyer if that's not in their nature, but if being independent means an ok grasp of money and capacity to earn money in something that you enjoy, surely everyone should aspire to this?

If you're rich and successful enough so you think gold-diggers target you, just hide it and meet people naturally.

(Some cultures are super open and bring payslips and mortgage statements to dates).

One of my exes messaged me similar after his divorce.
He was asking if I could rent him property at "mates rates" because he needed a 3 bed for his kids to stay.

I seem to be at that age now where exes pop up saying similar things and I am somehow meant to be tutting and consoling them! Funnily enough my generosity towards them has usually run dry.

But these aren't the guys any woman's going to want anyway, surely? No successful independent woman is going to be losing sleep over some half wit on reddit who sniffs after teenage waitresses. Such men are the very bottom of the dating food chain and wouldnt even be on the radar of the successful women.

In your early 30's with a man for 18 months who has little idea or interest in discussing the future?
He should be super keen and into you.
If not, you are wasting YOUR time.
I would be seriously looking at moving on.

A woman with a high income, a good education and a fully formed opinion definitely isn’t attractive to a certain type of man. But I wouldn’t be attracted to that type of man either, so it’s largely irrelevant. Pick someone who wants broadly the same things as you, and you have a decent chance.

I know not all men are the same. But generally do women who have a decent income, house and generally no need for a man find that men just don't seem to commit to them. I feel like maybe it almost works against you if you don't need them to support you in any way. Like are they looking for a damsel in distress?

This is nonsense. If a woman needs financial help, why would that be more attractive? I prefer to have disposable income, not to have someone else take it.

Do you have any evidence that men have been less attracted to you due to you being financially secure?

I go on Reddit sometime and there’s a recurring theme along the lines of.
A man has the choice of a shit hot wealthy, intelligent and independent 30 something lawyer or a teenage trad wife virgin waitress. Guess which wins every time?

You should probably be gaining an understanding of men by actually talking to them and having male friends, not from browsing shite posted on Reddit by faceless netizens.

Browsing Reddit to gain an understanding of men would be like if a man browsed Crystal Cafe to get a better understanding of women.