Do men struggle to commit to independent women?

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I know not all men are the same. But generally do women who have a decent income, house and generally no need for a man find that men just don't seem to commit to them. I feel like maybe it almost works against you if you don't need them to support you in any way. Like are they looking for a damsel in distress?

I don't know if it's just the men I've been with but none of them ever seem to bring up a future, children, buying a house together. I feel like I've dated different types of men and starting to wonder if it's me at this point 😂 I did have one partner move in at one point, but always felt like he didn't really like the idea despite being together a few years, but when he moved on to the next girlfriend they moved in together after a few months.
I've been in a relationship for 18 months and the closest we've gotten to conversation about the future is he would consider maybe moving in together in a few years. I've brought up in conversation about maybe putting my house up for sale next spring because I want to get a few things done on the house and garden before selling, he asked what the rush to sell is. I think he's hoping I hold on for the indefinite period of time before he would consider getting a house together, but tbh I don't want to wait years to see if this is gonna happen. We are adults in our 30s I feel like waiting 3-4 years (maybe more, who knows) to see if you want to live together seems pointless, I'd rather sell up next year when I'm ready and if he's not ready to move together, then I plan to go ahead with finding my forever home, because at this point I can't see a future where any man willingly commits and I might as well just go get what I want.
I feel like if I lost my job and needed to move in with him then he would offer, but I would like commitment, without a specific need forcing it

I'm 'strong and independent' and never found commitment to be an issue, cocklodgers far more so!

If you want children you can't afford to let this bumble along without conversation

Yes I'm not expecting the actual moving in together and having kids together right this second, but I think it's the lack of talk about any sort of future. I don't really count the we might move into a house together in a few years (how long is a piece of string) and not much else discussion wise.
I might be tainted by previous relationships where I raised the fact I would like more specific timelines when I've been dating a man for a few years and they have acted like it was impossible to discuss a future in actual timelines, as if we'd only met yesterday. I don't feel like pushing the conversation will do me any favours, it's like it has to be their idea for them to want to do it
I don't know really, guess I just feel a little sorry for myself when I see other people moving on or planning things with their partners and I can't help wondering what's wrong with me that despite having a few long term relationships with different kinds of men, they never seem to want a future with me in reality

I think 18 months isn’t long but it’s worth seeing if you are on the same page sooner rather than later. I think some men veer away from independent women as they are traditional and like to be a provider others are the opposite and like to freeload! Obviously there are those in the middle. If your values/morals align with your partner then you probably want the same things. But really you need to meet in the middle.

The thing is, you can be in a relationship/married and it still be a bit shit. Are these men committing in other ways? I had one boyfriend who on paper was "committed" but in reality would've been a terrible husband/father and view me just as an appliance because that's what society expected of him. Equally I've had another who, yes, is afraid of marriage etc but has proven his commitment time and time again when I've been seriously ill/during family bereavements etc. The older I get, the more I realise the true concept of commitment. I do think you need to realise you're worthy too.

All those things are rather vacuous and men don't need a relationship to experience them.

Again, gently, I don't think you really understand what men are looking for in a relationship.

Nope.

I'm really torn here, as there are some men who do believe in this archaic notion of womanhood, so in that respect you're right. I've encountered them and there's threads about them. Equally some only want women as a 'plus one' or for convenience. But, I don't think you should strive to be with those men. A good man would not be put off by you being independent. I wonder if you should look at why you think that's all you're worth. You're worth more - an equal partnership. I say this knowing dating is hard and especially so at your age.

To be honest I'm not sure what you're suggesting I need to offer. We have a good relationship, spend time together enjoy each others company. I don't ' need him' that doesn't mean I don't 'want him'.
What are you saying a man needs from a relationship because it seems bizarre to me if a requirement is for a woman to be unable to support herself without him, or am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say?

I think you should stop looking at what they want and start looking at what you want. I say this within reason. So not superficial qualities, but real ones. Would he be there if I needed him? Has he proven this? Do we communicate freely? Do I trust him? Can I be my truest self around him and not feel judged? What are your values? Do they align? Could you see yourself with him in 40 years? And, crucially, can you openly discuss this with him?

Women bring more to relationships than just neediness. Mutual respect, emotional support, and shared experiences are key. It's not about needing a man, but choosing to share life with one—though maybe you're not the type women are choosing anyway.

To OP. If he isn't talking about a future with you, and then he doesn't see one with you, and you are just wasting your time.

18 months, he should be very keen about wanting a future with you and talking about it and showing through his actions that is what he wants.

You seem rather passive and resigned and maybe he's picking up on that.

Personally yes, I have found the same as you OP. I'm very self sufficient and was told by my last ex "too independent" despite me thanking him profusely every time he took the bins out, mowed the lawn or whatever. Of course I was happy to have someone else helping! It felt like a weird thing to say until he divulged more in a rage after the split saying he "needed to be needed".

I thought I did appreciate him, but I probably did draw the line at telling him I "needed" him. I don't think it is a healthy basis for a relationship but I do think men like that, particularly when they can't match financially or stability, because they want you to be slightly in thrall to them. Another thread today on relationships highlighted how competitive men are in relationships, which is where I think it stems from. They need you to be more needy if you have more than them so they don't feel like they are "punching" even if they show you off like this to mates at the start...it wears thin once they think on it and worry you might leave probably when they decide to dick you about They do all want to be the man in shining armour I think and many of them lack imagination to find other ways to do this without being dominant financially.

Honestly this has nothing to do with being independent or not. I know all sorts of women who are happily married, women who out earn their husbands, SAHM and in the middle. This specific ones isn’t moving stuff along because he doesn’t want to.

I just don't recognise what @Hereyoume said at all.

I have had relationships in the past that moved really fast, like married within a year of meeting. These were really dysfunctional relationships.

I'd agree with others to have some therapy, because something may be going on that a therapist can help you unpick. I'm not even going to speculate on what that might be.

I know that spending five years with a therapist has shown me what was happening in me that made me pick very insecure men, hook them in with a laser focus, propose to them, marry them and cling to them. Concurrently with therapy, I dated a fair bit, and then met dp. We have a completely different kind of relationship.

Would love to know what you think men want from a relationship.

Going out on a limb, is it sex?

"Fundamentally, most men want to provide, feel needed, give protection, there is imme se satisfaction in that concept for men, similar to how most women find satisfaction in motherhood."

Which really does explain why more insecure men don't support women's causes when it comes to femicide and violent crimes against women and are so against women having equality.

Doesn't explain why so few pay child support, if they like providing so much?

I think there are men who will struggle to commit but this generally reflects the fact that they aren’t committed to this partner, possibly excepting much younger men. I’d hope that you would be discussing your future together by this point otherwise I’d give them up. Drifting along is a risk and I don’t think it has anything to do with you being independent.

Maybe pull back a bit, be less available, book a holiday away and days out with friends. You’ll soon find out if he misses you or not.

I’m pretty independent and I think being independent means we are a little more fussy about who we are with. When you know yourself and are looking for a partner, the pool gets narrower for obvious reasons (as opposed to if you were happy to take on anyone regardless of fit).

Woth my current partner I had to have the talk with him often at the beginning, almost every 6 months - we would evaluate where we are and if we are still heading in the direction of being serious. And I would give him a choice. The nice thing about our relationship is that we do life together. We’ve discussed marriage but Arn’t in a hurry - essentially we constantly make sure that we are on the same page.

I do find if it was up to men they will put having kids etc on hold - they don’t seem to have the sense of urgency.

However I do think it’s important for a man to be super into you - and to not feel forced or trap.

What?

Why would women choose me? ? ?

Because paying child support literally means that there is no longer any relationship.

Equality has nothing to do with it.

What does equality even mean? Men and women can never be equal. That's a fantasy. We are different, we can have equal access to jobs and money and opportunity, but we can never be equal.

I dont like the way you are subtly deriding other women here OP. You may see a single mother struggling financially as a 'damsel in distress', a different person might see that single mother working her damned hardest to provide for her children and respect that. I do.
Same with someone still living at home, whilst doing so, they may be smashing money into a savings account towards buying a house. It certainly doesn't mean they need 'rescuing'.
These friends of yours had something about them obviously, and good for them if they are happy and in healthy, loving relationships.
Stop comparing your situation for a start, ask him where he sees you both in a few years time. These are perfectly normal conversations to have with someone you are seeing. Perhaps your friends were more forward in that respect!

Oh so it's not actually providing, it's part payment for a "relationship" that relies on her needing him. I see. Kid can do one once she stops being needy of course. Sounds delightful and not at all protective. Or perhaps that's the point; withdraw all support so she realises how much she "needed" you because you only picked women who couldn't provide for herself to have kids with.

See why it isn't appealing?

This - I have always been the higher earner but most recent relationship has been the opposite - changes nothing for me. I could be with someone earning 5x what I do, makes no difference.

I want to be be with someone because I love them, simple as that, and ironically I think I am more attracted deep down to stronger, independent women