Husband guaranteed his friends mortgage so I want to separate.

[HoveactuallyBrighton]

Exactly what the thread title says.
Our home's at risk if his friend can't pay the mortgage.

What happens to the mortgage guarantee when we separate?

@ChickyBricky you seem to have had a very hard life, and I'm sorry you've experienced that. But as a result you have a deeply skewed perspective.

I suggest rather than giving unhelpful advice to others you might do better to work on raising your own bar for acceptable behaviour from a partner. See if you can at least get it up to ground level. At the moment it's in the Laurentian Abyss.

You're right, I am much better qualified for the "LTB" threads! 🙃🤦‍♀️

Good luck OP

OP look up DARVO, it's what he's doing. There's no need for you to feel like shit, you've done nothing wrong.

Just for a moment, let's assume he did nothing wrong either (not true but let's look at it that way for a minute). You've got a situation where your husband is making financial decisions that you don't agree with and he's unwilling to compromise on those decisions. As a result you decide you'd rather not be tied to him financially. The only way to achieve that is divorce and you want whatever settlement you're legally entitled to from the divorce. Even if that were the case and he wasn't being out of order, you still wouldn't be doing anything wrong. You're allowed to make whatever decisions you want about your own life. You can get divorced for whatever reason you want. It doesn't have to be justified to others, including the spouse, as a good/sensible decision.

All it takes for a relationship to end is for one person to decide to end it, their partner doesn't have to agree with their decision or like it or be fine with it. The partner can have whatever emotions they want to about it all. Those emotions aren't something for the other person to fix or make better or deal with in any way.

To the other poster: being a SAHM isn't being "looked after" when it's not your choice to do it. Or when your apparent "choice" has come about due to being with a partner who refuses to do any childcare, pay for any nursery fees etc and you've been backed into a corner so effectively that it's no choice at all - because there aren't any other options.

It's not "looking after" someone to force them to give up their career. How is that in their best interests?
Or to put them in a precious situation due to your own financial choices, which you've made without consulting them first and coming to a joint decision. As if the other person doesn't count and isn't entitled to an opinion. Again, how is that in their best interests?

It's not "looking after" someone to silence them when they raise concerns, go into a strop, refuse to discuss anything or even to give them information on exactly what is happening.

It's not "looking after" someone when you've got a family, your spouse has sacrificed their career for that family and you don't consider all the wages coming in to be family money but instead consider it to be only your money.

It's also totally mysogynistc to consider someone to have been "looked after" when what you really mean is provided for financially and to simultaneously ignore the facts that -
First, OP never wanted this and it wasn't part of her plan for life.
Second, it's not true! OP isn't being provided for financially because he refuses to put her name on the house deeds and he makes financial decisions that put her in a precious situation, such as guaranteeing a friend's mortgage.
Third, to view only OP as being "looked after" and totally ignore the way OP's husband has also been looked after in a practical way, by OP, for all these years. By raising the family he wanted, as well as keeping house and sacrificing her career to do so. All done so that his career could blossom unimpeded by domestic chores. In other words, you fail to acknowledge that they're equal and just think OP should be grateful for not working in paid employment, as if that's the be-all-and-end-all of life, whilst ignoring the nastiness meted out to her by him when she tries to have an opinion.

It's not an over reaction for OP to be upset at being told by her H that she can't have an opinion on her own life. Which is exactly what he is telling her, with his behaviour, when she tries to discuss something she's not happy about.

Thanks pineapples. That's v helpful to see in black & white.
I had a GP appt on the phone today and was prescribed betablockers. I'm not sure why but Dr said I sounded panicky

You're welcome.

Beta blockers deal with the physical symptoms of anxiety. They won't stop the thoughts occurring but will reduce the racing heart, shaking etc. If you told doc you're getting divorced and he thinks you sound panicking now, doc's figuring that you may start struggling with your MH if the divorce becomes acrimonious, so has prescribed these to help you get through the situation and prevent a downward MH spiral.

Good grief Pineapples, you put in very clear words what I have been trying to explain to countless of unhappy wives thinking their husband is a good man when taking all their power away by making all financial decisions, which normally involve indulging in the only salary for his own benefit while just giving the crumbS to children and family.

This should be printed up in leaflets and made available at places that support women.

if you don’t know why and you didn’t ask for beta blockers (antidepressants) go back to your doctor and ask why.

A marriage counselour we had once advised my husband to take me to the GP and get antidepressants as “I was failing to engage”. Thankfully my feminist GP disagreed on this, I wanted a divorce NOT being a happy wife through medication.

A later counsellor reported the previous counselour for this behaviour and I hope he was struck from the register so just double check your GP is not one of those chauvinistic people considering your needs or wants as those of a hysterical woman.

Beta blockers are not antidepressants.

And if you look back to the OPs early posts;

I'm in a terrible emotional state bordering on panic attack.
I think I need medication to help me.

That is exactly what beta blockers are for.

They don't have a psychoactive effect, they won't make her 'a happy wife through medication'. They just reduce adrenaline and heart rate so she can think clearly instead of having panic attacks.

I told him about betablockers and he made out its my fault. Gaslit.

Exactly. The first time I started thinking about how unhappy I was in my relationship / circumstances after a family move that left me unable to continue with my career and therefore becoming financially dependent, I was put into ADS, it took me five years to get back my resolve to walk out of the marriage.
Next time, I thankfully had that doctor that told me it was ok to feel like that and gave me the option to take them rather than just prescribing them without me knowing why,

OP if you think they will help go ahead with them, my comment was all about you saying “was prescribed betablockers. I'm not sure why but Dr said I sounded panicky”

Once again, beta blockers are not antidepressants. They are a totally different type of medication, for a completely different purpose, with a different mechanism of action.

This may take years to stop after years devoted to care for his needs. If you have decided you don’t want to save the marriage stop giving him ammunition he could use against you either to lower your resolve or attack you during the divorce process.

Point taken, apologies.

I do agree with you that if you're not certain what a preacription is for, you should always call the GP back to check. It's often hard to take in the details during an appointment.

if you don’t know why and you didn’t ask for beta blockers (antidepressants) go back to your doctor and ask why.

They're not ADs. They're blood pressure meds often prescribed for combating the physical effects of anxiety.

I agree though, that she should practice asking what's happening. Very good point.

OP you need to overcome your "training" in not asking questions, if you are to take control of your own life. Unlike your H, the doc isn't going to bite your head off for asking questions about your own health/life.

100% this. Is depressing, isn't it, how long it takes to stop voluntarily giving our enemies a stick to beat us with.

OP, he has no rights to information about you. Your health is private, you can share information if you want to but you have no obligation to. It's not relevent to him at all if the marriage is ending. He has no right to know that you even have a doctor's appointment, never mind the outcome of it, any diagnosis and any meds prescribed. You'll be used to answering his questions because he wants them answered and you're subconsciously afraid of the way he'll react if you refuse. To the extent that you've probably learned to offer information before it's even asked for, to keep in his good books. Because he can't control everything that goes on if he doesn't know about it. He wants control, you end up giving it to him in an attempt to ensure your safety. Or you keep yourself safe by exiting the marriage, getting away from him and taking charge of your own life.

I must say this thread has been an enlightening read. Not only am I used to men not putting their hand in their pocket to pay for the slightest crumb, let alone a roof over my head (the ultimate dream!!!), but on reflection I've also always lived with the impression that men aren't really bothered about having kids and see it as a bit of an extravagant hobby that they indulge their wives in. I guess I've just been a bit unlucky. Better luck in my next life, hey 😜

OP, are you normally hyperanxious or is it just this situation that has (understandably, I now realise🤦‍♀️) brought it out in you? Has your DH explained why he thought it was a reasonable risk to take?

Chicky
Some men do genuinely want DC to create a family in a loving, mutually respectful and beneficial way with their spouse/partner.
And some men only want DC as a way of tying their wife to them, the DC are a tool to control her with, like what has happened to OP. The DC are used as a way to get her to give up work and become financially dependant on him, which she otherwise wouldn't have done. If you earn your own wage it's a lot easier to exercise control over your own life and some men don't want their wives/partners having that control. They want to make it as difficult as possible for her to leave them, so they can treat her badly and she's more likely to tolerate it, due to the difficulty of leaving and starting again on her own.
Then there's those other ones you've encountered who basically don't want DC but will "allow" them as a kind of hobby for their wife who is then expected to do everything/pay for everything child-related. Which is also unfair when she didn't realize in advance that this was the situation, because these men rarely make it clear in advance and if they did, most women wouldn't choose to have DC with someone who announced that they basically don't want them but she can have them as long as his life isn't really affected by their existence. Most women would then look for someone else who actually wanted DC. He knows this and doesn't want his wife/partner to leave him so he just doesn't tell her his true feelings, then the DC have arrived and it's too late.

If all a person wanted in life was to not have to work in paid employment and to not have to buy food, clothes, utility bills, rent and council tax - if that's the most important thing to a person and they don't want anything else from life, such as the ability to easily exercise control over their own life and future - then it's fine for them to get into a relationship that provides what they want. Some choose it to not work and others might choose it to live in a bigger house than they could otherwise afford/wear more expensive clothes/go on more exotic holidays (although all of these things may be entirely of their husbands choosing, depends on the man). If it's these women's choice to live that way, that's fine and they may well be very happy (again, depends on how they're getting treated, if he's nasty they're going to be miserable). Others may consider it an unwise choice because there's no real security there, especially if the couple aren't married, but people have the right to make unwise decisions. Also the level of acceptable risk is different for everyone, it's a personal decision.

None of this means that others, who find themselves in that situation when they didn't want/choose it and aren't happy with the level of risk and uncertainty and who do want full control over their own lives, should be thinking themselves lucky and putting up with it. People are allowed to want different things.

Even amongst those who chose it, they're justified in ending the marriage if they realise they have made a mistake. People don't have to suck it up forever more, they're allowed to change their minds (and their lives).

Life, and people, is complicated. There's not only one right way for things to be. Everyone has the right to take steps towards living the life they want to live (so long as it's not criminal) and nobody has the right to try to prevent them.

Thanks for explaining it, @Pineapples1234. Sometimes it's really helpful for someone to point things out that are not obvious from our own experience.

Acting as a guarantor doesn't mean he has secured the house to pay off his friends mortgage. It means if the friend cannot repay it because his house sale falls through or he loses his income they could potentially ask your husband to repay. If he is not in a position to do so they are unlikely to get him to sell his own home but there is a possibility if they take him to court and they judge he has to sell your house. Extremely unlikely though.

The bigger issue is why your husband does not feel you should be named on the deeds of the house given you have children, are married and contribute either financially or by looking after your children. I can't see how separating will make any of this better though unless you don't want to be married to him anyway.

I'll catch up tomorrow. Busy day today and I'm feeling tired.
He didn't ask me where I went - I volunteered the information.

I barely want to talk to him.
I told a friend. They told me that they'd noticed his coldness towards me a while ago but didn't want to say anything cos they didn't want to upset me.
How do I move this thread to relationships?

Report your own post and ask MN to move it.

I think you're getting very close to being 'definitely maybe sure' about ending your marriage. That's OK, it often takes baby steps to get there and not a decision to be made rashly, but with careful deliberation.

I know I mentioned it upthread, but you really need to speak to a solicitor before you speak your your H (not so D now). You need to understand the financial implications of a divorce as it applies to your specific situations and how to best situate yourself for the most positive outcome.

Good on you for confiding in a friend. It sounds as if she has been carefully watching and that's what good friends do.