Best way to initiate and lead a difficult conversation (long)

[cultjarteriaky]

I'm planning to have a difficult conversation with my boyfriend of 11 months and it might lead to a break up. I could be persuaded to give it another go if we manage to have a good talk but if we don't manage to express ourselves with transparency and truth, I will give up.

He hasn't done anything bad and we started off very well. However he is still very closed off and had great difficulty expressing any kind of emotions. I'm quite sensitive to body languages and facial expressions and reading between the lines and I pick a lot from non verbal communication but he is always insisting that everything is ok, he is ok, he will let me know his true thoughts and feelings but that just doesn't happen.

One example of many (this was over text message a few weeks ago):

• I invited him to attend a event on 23 of May (a Thursday)
• he said he can't go because he has an important online meeting at the same day and at the same time that can't be cancelled
• so to clarify I said - on 23rd May?
• he said: oh no I thought it was this Thursday but I can't go because it is too far, it 1.5 hours from my house
• then I sent him a screenshot with travel plans - it is in fact 30 minutes from his house and a straight tube line and 1.5 hours from mine with 3 changes
• then he said that the travel will be complicated because is the Thursday before the Friday before the weekend bank holiday which is Monday so the public transport will be too crowded and with delays, lines and station closures blahblah
• so at this point I said "no worries, I will go on my own"
• to which he said he wanted to go
• then something came up for me on the 23rd May making it impossible for me to go so yesterday during dinner I told him that we don't need to go anymore to which he opened a massive smile and a sigh of relief

So the point of the anecdote above is to illustrate that although he thinks himself as an honest communicator, he isn't. Many times I told him that I want him to be himself and not be worried about telling me 'no', or to disappoint. I don't ever want him to do something he is not keen on just for me.
There are many little other stories similar to the above where his reasoning doesn't make any sense and it is just excuses.

So my question is, should I:
1 - give him a heads up that we need to talk so when we meet next he has had a chance of doing some reflection?
2- bring my thoughts and feelings up spontaneously so he won't have time to prepare any elaborated excuses?

Oh another example that just came up to my memory:

• a couple of weeks ago we were deciding between two restaurants
• so we decided to look at the menus and see what we fancy better
• he opened up the website of one of the places on his phone and asked if my phone was with me
• I told him that my phone was downstairs and thought we would just share his screen and read the menu together
• I noticed his hesitancy so told to just read the menu out to which he did
• then roll up to yesterday we were in a unfamiliar area and needed something to eat so he pulled out his phone to look at places nearby
• he found one that looked interesting and was on the phone map app trying to figure out which direction to go
• at this point I leaned in to look at his map app together since I knew the area slightly better than he did
• he then closed the phone saying that the map app was showing him places that were not even in this country and we should try the app on my phone since it was so much better
• for the record - in the past, he had suggested that I download and use the app that he does since it is better than mine...hmmmmm
• anyway, in 2 occasions his has been cagey with his phone out of the blue and on the last occasion, used a very silly excuse which I think could be a lie - we absolutely respect each others phone and I never touched his but I look at everything on my phone next to him, he has seen me putting my password many times

He is a educated, intelligent, well accomplished man so when he comes with what I'm perceiving as BS excuses like the above, it makes me feel pretty unsettled.

I know that only an honest and open conversation will make me want to still be in this relationship and my thoughts and feelings can't be ignored anymore even though he says everything is okay. However I'm the type that need a lot of rational thinking and pondering which is a big change from the way I used to operate before, (I'd just blurt out whatever feeling or thought, not thinking it through and ending up being hurtful to the other person) hence this post to bounce off ideas and hear opinions.

I don't want to talk to friends at this stage.

There is nothing wrong with the way he communicates and I would guess that there is nothing wrong with the way you do either. I don't understand why you need to have a big and important talk. In his shoes I would feel quite anxious and got at if somebody felt they had to have a serious discussion about the things you mentioned. He hasn't done anything wrong! You simply need to accept that is the way he is, or you split up.

You know when people say that love means accepting people the way they are? This is what they mean. Also, if you were to ever live together or have children these sort of differences would get magnified a thousand times. You would be having a go at him several times a day and he would be miserable. You two are not compatible.

Do you actually want to be with him? I say this having spent 14 years with someone and was very unhappy. I am a massive advocate for doing what makes you feel good, and this includes spending time with people who are held in high regard.

11 months is very early on in the relationship to be listing things you are unhappy with.

Do what makes you happy.

For consideration - What do you want your future to look like and does it include him?

And if you want to speak with him, just go do it. Do it today then it's done and you can go from there.

In your first example, if he didn't want to go he should have just said 'no thank you', and you should have accepted it.
But instead, he gave an excuse, and you challenged him. You then went on to challenge his further excuses.

In your shoes I wouldn't have a big talk over any of this, and next time he gives a 'no' I'd accept it with 'ok, maybe another time'. Try that and see how you get on.

I would just get rid. This shouldn’t be a conversation.

He is comfortable being deceptive. He told you lies about his phone. That’s all you need to know.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with him or what he does. It is just like at 11 months it feels that the communication is very surface level and he is not being truthful to himself and his wishes.
There are a lot of other examples that I can give but the core problem is: he says all is okay, he is okay BUT I can see and feel differently. At 11 months of knowing him I can tell now when he and things are genuinely okay and when it is a mask.

I do wonder if he is started to suffer from silent depression.

And I absolutely respect his right to have private thoughts and feelings but it is uncomfortable for me to be in his presence sensing he would rather be doing something else and is just going along to please me.

God he sounds like really hard work. It shouldn't be this difficult.
What's he hiding on his phone?
I wouldn't be having a difficult conversation with him. I'd be telling him I can't be arsed with all his posturing and childish behaviour and telling him to grow up or piss off.

Yep I agree.
But because he didn’t say ‘no thank you’ I thought he was genuinely having concerns until I realised they were actually excuses. Why? Because he reassured me many times that he speaks his mind but as you can see from the example, he doesn’t.

No I wouldn't bother with the big talk. It won't change him and 11 months is nothing out of a lifetime. I think if you stay with him you will regret it and grow to really resent him.

Seems like he was worried about things popping up in view while you were on it.. Making excuses like travel times being long /far is shite...
11 months in should me fun and not stressful.

Ltb.

What's he hiding on his phone?

Who knows? This is something I wanna ask him completely out of the blue.

In my mind it could be messages popping up. Maybe he is talking to someone.

It all sounds so painful, he is a poor communicator if he makes up various excuses about travel issues etc when he just doesn’t fancy it. And sounds like he is hiding things on his phone which isn’t good. However I’m not sure you’ll be able to change any of this

I disagree, there is something wrong with how he communicates. He lies, circles around all kinds of bullshit excuses, and is not honest. Plus he’s hiding his phone. No wonder you’re insecure about the relationship.

Im not sure a conversation will change anything. The phone withholding is very bad news on top of him undermining trust by lying.

The irony is that he is a very natural and accomplished public speaker

It seems he has a propensity for lying.

Honestly though I'd not bother with a big talk just say it's not working for you and enjoy being single going into summer.

A relationship that is this hard before the end of the first year is not going anywhere positive or healthy imo.

I’m not wanting him to change
I want to have a kind and mature break up

There is a small part of me that could give it another chance if he became self aware and willing to communicate honestly, let down his walls and be vulnarable but I know it is not easy and maybe not going to happen

He has many good qualities that I admire but I’m just feeling I can’t trust what some of what I know, see, feel, hear when with him anymore.

Oh well just have a chat and explain it’s not working and you wish him well.

Just break up with him - its not that he lacks self awareness, its that he is skilled at managing people, and it sounds like he is using those skills to manage you.

I had this issue, and despite several attempts over several years to make it work - surprise, it didn’t!
I even thought he was going to propose due to extreme distractedness, agitation etc one time but again, something was just going on that he didn’t want to communicate. I never got to the bottom of the issue and the evasiveness, I just stopped hoping that he would change.

Life is too short to be with someone who isn't glad to be with you, especially when you don't live close by and probably don't see each other most days. It should be a treat to see each other at that stage? And phone secrecy is not a good sign either. I wouldn't bother forcing him to have a big talk.

Yes but that's different. Think of the many politicians who are accomplished public speakers, yet you couldn't trust them an inch.

I think he was worried about messages coming up on his phone.

The phone is a bit odd. but what could you possibly see on a navigation app or a restaurant app that would be worth hiding? What do you think he didn't want you to see?

In the first case, he didn't want to disappoint by just saying he didn't want to go, so tried to let you down easy. When that didn't work he agreed to go. Since he didn't want to in the first place not surprising he was relieved when it was cancelled. He was just trying to be nice in a back handed sort of way.

No big discussion necessary, you could say I don't mind if you don't want to do something with me, but you probably would mind to some extent. Ask why he's so protective of his phone if you want to. Up to you if this is a deal breaker.

He didn't want to go to the event but didn't want to displease you so tried to think up excuses, then eventually had to capitulate when you broke through them all. Straight talking is a wonderful thing, but many people find it hard to flat out decline something people want them to do, so dissemble with excuses. You do sound quite strident, and a person who doesnt easily take no for an answer, so that wouldn't have helped. Another way of looking at this would be for you, having picked up his reluctance, to have eased off and not cornered him into it.
Or perhaps you do need a different sort of partner who is your match in assertiveness. What I don't think you'll achieve is getting this one to change through a Big Talk.
The phone thing, who knows? He may be hiding something, he may not have wanted you taking over.

It's very common for people to give excuses if they don't want to go to something rather than just saying no.

There is a school of thought (not mine) that it is more polite.

You are perfectly reasonable to break up with him for any or no reason. The phone thing sounds more odd but the communication thing is just communication differences not anything major.

Honest to god, here's some old gimmer wisdom: people don't change.

I mean, I know that's absolutist and if I was saying it your face and I was trying to let you down gently, I'd say people don't change for other people, they only change for themselves.

He won't change. No matter how many open conversations you have with him, he won't change because essentially he is happy with himself. His self-view and your view of him don't match, but he likes himself - look at the words he uses to describe himself. So he's not going to pretzel himself to change something that he doesn't believe is an issue.

you know you don't need to have a big long conversation

it's easy and simple to say, that you don't feel / believe this is the relationship for you.

end of.

no lengthy whys and why nots
no blaming

no lengthy ' well you didn't actually want to go to xyz and i kept telling you how easy it was for you to get there etc

you don't live together, do you ?