Best way to initiate and lead a difficult conversation (long)

[cultjarteriaky]

I'm planning to have a difficult conversation with my boyfriend of 11 months and it might lead to a break up. I could be persuaded to give it another go if we manage to have a good talk but if we don't manage to express ourselves with transparency and truth, I will give up.

He hasn't done anything bad and we started off very well. However he is still very closed off and had great difficulty expressing any kind of emotions. I'm quite sensitive to body languages and facial expressions and reading between the lines and I pick a lot from non verbal communication but he is always insisting that everything is ok, he is ok, he will let me know his true thoughts and feelings but that just doesn't happen.

One example of many (this was over text message a few weeks ago):

• I invited him to attend a event on 23 of May (a Thursday)
• he said he can't go because he has an important online meeting at the same day and at the same time that can't be cancelled
• so to clarify I said - on 23rd May?
• he said: oh no I thought it was this Thursday but I can't go because it is too far, it 1.5 hours from my house
• then I sent him a screenshot with travel plans - it is in fact 30 minutes from his house and a straight tube line and 1.5 hours from mine with 3 changes
• then he said that the travel will be complicated because is the Thursday before the Friday before the weekend bank holiday which is Monday so the public transport will be too crowded and with delays, lines and station closures blahblah
• so at this point I said "no worries, I will go on my own"
• to which he said he wanted to go
• then something came up for me on the 23rd May making it impossible for me to go so yesterday during dinner I told him that we don't need to go anymore to which he opened a massive smile and a sigh of relief

So the point of the anecdote above is to illustrate that although he thinks himself as an honest communicator, he isn't. Many times I told him that I want him to be himself and not be worried about telling me 'no', or to disappoint. I don't ever want him to do something he is not keen on just for me.
There are many little other stories similar to the above where his reasoning doesn't make any sense and it is just excuses.

So my question is, should I:
1 - give him a heads up that we need to talk so when we meet next he has had a chance of doing some reflection?
2- bring my thoughts and feelings up spontaneously so he won't have time to prepare any elaborated excuses?

Oh another example that just came up to my memory:

• a couple of weeks ago we were deciding between two restaurants
• so we decided to look at the menus and see what we fancy better
• he opened up the website of one of the places on his phone and asked if my phone was with me
• I told him that my phone was downstairs and thought we would just share his screen and read the menu together
• I noticed his hesitancy so told to just read the menu out to which he did
• then roll up to yesterday we were in a unfamiliar area and needed something to eat so he pulled out his phone to look at places nearby
• he found one that looked interesting and was on the phone map app trying to figure out which direction to go
• at this point I leaned in to look at his map app together since I knew the area slightly better than he did
• he then closed the phone saying that the map app was showing him places that were not even in this country and we should try the app on my phone since it was so much better
• for the record - in the past, he had suggested that I download and use the app that he does since it is better than mine...hmmmmm
• anyway, in 2 occasions his has been cagey with his phone out of the blue and on the last occasion, used a very silly excuse which I think could be a lie - we absolutely respect each others phone and I never touched his but I look at everything on my phone next to him, he has seen me putting my password many times

He is a educated, intelligent, well accomplished man so when he comes with what I'm perceiving as BS excuses like the above, it makes me feel pretty unsettled.

I know that only an honest and open conversation will make me want to still be in this relationship and my thoughts and feelings can't be ignored anymore even though he says everything is okay. However I'm the type that need a lot of rational thinking and pondering which is a big change from the way I used to operate before, (I'd just blurt out whatever feeling or thought, not thinking it through and ending up being hurtful to the other person) hence this post to bounce off ideas and hear opinions.

I don't want to talk to friends at this stage.

I wouldn't bother having any conversations with him.

Not wanting to attend events with you depends on the event. If its a work function and he doesn't want to go, then I understand why he is making excuses. If it is a wedding and you need a plus one, then he should attend because that is what couples do.

Your post reminded me of someone I was with a long time ago. After quite a long time of excuses and refusing to commit to anything, it turned out he wasn't into me. He was hard work because he wasn't honest and your boyfriend sounds like hard work too.

Don't be surprised if your boyfriend wants to 'try again' because he likes you on his terms only. Save yourself a lot of time and find a nice, easygoing man who will enjoy being in your company and making each other happy.

ETA The man I referred to above didn't have any problems communicating and making an effort when he met somebody he did want to be with. I wish I had known of MN back then when I was sitting waiting for replies that never came and were over complicated, non committed excuses when they did..........

And - just an observation, the issue is not that he’s not able to communicate; it’s just that he doesn’t want to - otherwise he would. As you mention, he has no problem communicating in a professional context. For whatever reason, he is choosing not to be open.

Look he says he is direct and straight talking. It is not like I don’t take no for an answer. I do. But I need a clear no, otherwise how I know it is a no?

We had this talk many times and he swears he says what he thinks and feels which is just not true.

It’s giving me cognitive dissonance

I’m super direct. In my comminication a yes is a yes and a no is a no. A maybe means I have to think and decide. He never has to guess.

One example. We were walking along the canal and I was holding an empty disposable water bottle. There were no bins. So as a joke, I asked him hypotheticaly, what would he do if we were on our first date and I threw the bottle in the water? His response was: he would carry on with the date as planned as if nothing wrong happened and not contact me for a second one. Then I asked: what if I contacted you for a second one? he then would say he didn’t think we were a match.

But me, if it was the other way round, I would end the date on the spot and go home.

Maybe that is where we differ. He is more tactful where I just dont wanna waste time

This is not worth the effort, just break up with him.

I wouldnt be surprised if he has someone else in the picture, explains the weridness.with his phone.and the massive reluctance to commit to social events with you.

If you want to break up, just tell him it isn't working for you anymore. No need for long and complicated personal development conversations. All this angst and navel gazing over a short term fling that is going nowhere.

OP what age are you out of interest?

I remember having a very similar conversation while walking beside a canal with an ex boyfriend when I was in my 20s.

If you have different communication styles, this is not the person for you. You will end up arguing constantly. There is no happy future in this for either of you.

Not committing to you means he is keeping his options open ie YOU are an option while he waits or looks for someone else to come along. Hiding his phone before a Whatsapp or text msg pops up ties in with this.

Agree. But he seems to think he is a good communicator since he is good at public speaking and having a good vocabulary

Loves himself a bit too much, doesnt he.

You can’t have an open and honest conversation with someone who isn’t open and honest. You’re not going to get the good break up you’re looking for.

Time to move on.

I think people often try to please others in their communication, and sometimes do things/ go along to things they would rather not. Compromise is not a bad thing, and doesn't need to involve direct honestly. It's how the world and relationships work. Eg in my relationship, I sometimes go to a restaurant that wouldn't be my first choice, because I know my husband wants to. I don't tell him I'm Compromising, as he would feel bad and it would be less enjoyable. I imagine he does the same for me. So maybe what you are picking up is a bit of that. I would definitely try accepting his no first time, even if its disguised as an excuse, and say to him, I chose where we ate last time, you choose etc.
However the phone thing is something I would definitely want to explore. For me I would ask him outright, explain that you have noticed he doesn't want you looking at his screen. You are wondering if your relationship is no longer exclusive etc that you are asking as its been on your mind, which is why you are being direct about it.
Either that or a quick snoop whilst he is asleep.
Hope you get to the bottom of it.

It does ring a bell. He is a different person when we are doing something that he wants to do. Hence my confusion when I know he is not happy doing whatever but he insists he is.

What’s the point in asking? If he can’t be honest about not wanting to attend an event, he’s hardly going to be honest about cheating on you.

He sounds exhausting. Just end it and find someone better suited to you.

You're looking for honesty and directness from him. You're not going to get it.

You've talked about this with him before. What is the point in going over old ground.

He says he thinks he communicates well. You disagree.

You will continue disagreeing for the rest of your life because he won't change and, despite saying you don't want him to, you do!

It really should not be this hard. Your relationship should be fun and easy going. You're just not right for each other and this is what you should say when you end it. Don't blame him, don't blame yourself, just agree to go your separate ways and wish him well.

Honestly most people would take his approach, not yours on the canal conversation. You seen very direct, and that's fine, bit most people aren't to the extent you are.

It was obvious he didn't want to go to the event, for whatever reason. I would have preferred a straight no, but often people don't feel comfortable doing that, so it wouldn't have felt like a lie to me.

Re his phone, this could be suspicious, or equally could be perfectly innocent. He could have had an ex that was very controlling, that's made him unduly cautious. He may just be very private. He may be worried about pop ups that would be embarrassing, even though not wrong. I get junk mail from buying lingerie and sex toys in the past, and my email notifications just pop up - so I rarely volunteer to give my phone to people other than my husband. He could have junk mail following buying medication for piles... Or dating websites that he no longer uses but still is on the mailing list for.

I know but the point is: he says he is direct and will give it straight - because I ask - but he isn’t. I told him I have no problem hearing a straight no but he still comes up with excuses. That is why I ‘pushed’. My intention was not to push, I just didn’t know it was a no because he guarantees he would say no.

Regarding the phone, this is new behaviour - 2-3 weeks. It was not like that before. Not at all.

Could it be significant that the event was a was a Thursday? Do you have set days generally when you see him? I think he fluffed a Freudian slip. You said Thursday 23rd, his mind honed in on the Thursday aspect because he has another date lined up and it would be a clash.
He is hiding his phone in case a message comes up from her. He is a people pleaser who is also juggling different people, a difficult task that he is failing at. So he has a problem saying no, would rather have an external reason than just admit he doesn't want to do something. Occasionally he does things he knows he won't enjoy just to try and keep you sweet, but is all enthusiastic when it is something he wants to do.
I couldn't be bothered with it. I'd end it and just say its not for you anymore, you just aren't feeling it. Or have a bit of twisted fun swapping date timings so his balancing act comes undone and makes him stressed, because thats what he deserves.
Btw if he's ever used the phrase "I'm an open book", IME only people who aren't pass comment like that.

Oooh that is good, Thursday is not the day we often see each other, but our 1st date was a Thursday than never again…

Personally I think he sounds like a bit of a jerk who doesn't want to make much effort in your relationship. You also seem a little intense continually analysing his ex cuses. Perhaps he's nit the guy for you. It shouldn't be this hard.

I agree to a certain extent
Things changed ver rapidly and he has a history of putting a lot of effort but things are weirdly changing hence me trying to make sense if it

Actually I’m a very easy going person

You're overthinking this and trying to connect dots that shouldn't be joined.

Firstly, someone saying that they are a straight talker doesn't make them a straight talker. It makes them someone who says what they think you want to hear.

A good public speaker is not necessarily open and direct in their private life. If they are any good then they will know how to manipulate their audience and material to best effect. They won't just stand up and tell it like it is.

I think that you are trying very hard to extract his innermost thoughts. Maybe there are none. Or maybe he is seeing other people. Either way, he's not giving you what you need and he's not going to change, so move on.

Yes I agree with compromising but what I’m picking up is that he is becoming low level resentful when he is compromising. He thinks he can hide and he thinks if she says ‘it’s ok, I’m ok’ I won’t notice but I really do.

Unless there is something else spoiling his mood in his private life and it is a coincidence that it is happening when be is the one compromising.

Or maybe I’m the one full of BS making up stories in my head or seeing things that are not there, but I do belive I feel a difference in his mood, it can be quite palpable even if he says it is all fine.

Another thing - I texted him yesterday to thank him for the date (he compromised) and said that I hope he had a good time because I had a feeling he was unhappy when we met at the station and I wanted to reassure him he can be open and tell me anything.
Part of his reply - “I know you thought that since you mentioned it several times. I don’t need you to guess my moods since is mostly a range of neutral”

and then he said he didn’t take antihestamine so he was uncomfortable

For the record I had only mentioned it 3 times on that day

• as soon as we met as it was quite palpable, so I thought he was unwell
• when we were eating his mood changed for the better so I noted that he seemed a lot happier so maybe he was hungry before
• during the text

And now I’m also thinking. If his moods are almost always a range of neutral and he is showing no happines when greeting ne at the station, then he is not happy to see me is he? At least not when he is compromising.

This^
the gut feeling is warning you. Listen it.
My question would you believe him if he would explain himself in this big important conversation?

I would not believe his words a such but his tone, body language, facial expressions and whether the explanations or excuses make sense or not
And this is not the type of relationship I want
I used to believe everything he says before but now it just seems weird

I think the communication styles point is valid and if you can’t communicate effectively then it’s not going to work out. Unfortunately there’s not too much you can change regarding that.

At 11 months it should be fun and relaxed if it’s not then something is up and probably not long term potential.

Regarding the phone, if you have a gut feeling somethings not quite right then it probably isn’t and I would suggest binning him off.

I had the same instinct a week or two into my last relationship but pushed it aside… fast forward to nearly 12 months (the last 5 of which were horrendous) and turns out he was in contact with an ex the whole time and just using me as a pawn to make her jealous in a long standing game he’s been playing for years to get her back.

This is way way too much over analysis from you.

Firstly - if you ask someone if they are ok and they say yes when you think they are not stop asking because what they mean is that they are not but they don't want to talk about it with you,

Secondly 11 months is a very short time to be sharing deep deep feelings either each other. Surface level stuff is absolutely fine now.

Thirdly you really don't seem to understand some very standard English social conventions.

In England it is generally considered rude to give a flat no to anything and people will give excuses instead. Are you Dutch or German by any chance?