Read so much about Affair Partners create a vacancy ..

[ap1999]

Interesting and I know it will not be popular but have nc and donned my tin hat - but .. so many threads in hear about 'marrying the mistress just creates a vacancy' ..

So my DH and I met through an affair.. I was already separated but still living in same home as ex DH .. current DH was still married but contracting away from home and as it turns out - his ex was seeing someone who she is now married to.. I had 3 kids he had 5.

In total I was married for 16 years and him for 13.. we have now been married for 25 and very very happy.

Is it not the case that sometimes people marry the wrong person first time round .. ? Even our kids say that we are ALL much happier ?

The only change I would have made would be the 'affair' part ... for us it was 6 weeks but it would have been better if he had left before. My DH says he agrees but at the time it was not about leaving a disinterested and hostile wife but the heartbreak of leaving his children.

Everyone now in their 20s/30s and all good .. but honestly.. do people really not believe in second chances ?

I don't think any statement like this can be absolutely true. In your case it sounds as if their marriage was already dead on both sides- may not have been anyone's finest hour but it doesn't mean he's bound to cheat now.

I think it's more likely to be true when the person having an affair is also pretending to their spouse that all is well, because they want both relationships and are happy to lie to keep them.

That is a very good point ... didn't stop the divorce from being horrific sadly..

Well like every situation there are infinite possibilities really.

Affairs can be for a shag, the excitement, the chase, or because there's genuine love there. I guess that will drive whatever happens next.

I think 5 children over 13 years and then having an affair is hugely problematic. It’s beyond messy.

I used to think the usual “once a cheater always a cheater” etc but as I’ve got older I have seen and learned that not everything is just black or white and there are so many different factors and reasons for why people do what they do or how things end up a certain way.

Is the same as any saying. Sometimes true. Sometimes not. Not all people are the same and not all affairs are the same.

I don’t get your point about simply not being the right person the first time. That’s entirely irrelevant to an affair or the saying. People do often marry the wrong person the first time around. But that doesn’t mean there has to be an affair. You can marry the wrong person and leave without involving anyone else.

I do think how the affair plays out can impact whether you can see if this saying will be true. If 2 people have an affair for a short period, then leave their partners quickly and they have never cheated before, I would say the chances of it being true are small.

If someone has been married a few times and cheated every time, or carried on long affairs but staying married and only left the marriage when their spouse found out so shacked up with the affair partner, I would say the chances of having another affair is quite high.

But I think anyone having an affair should consider the saying and really think about it being a real possibility. Both people who partook in the affair, made it clear that marriage is wasn’t a blocker when it comes to having sex with other people. Which isn’t a great basis for a relationship. You might still forge ahead with the relationship, but taking the time to think about it always worth while.

Thank you for your very thoughtful response. I agree with you absolutely. We have been married a very long time now but still regret he didn't leave first..

His defence was that leaving his wife meant leaving his children.. and will still say ' I divorced my wife - not my kids' .. I will counter that with ' well I managed to separate from ex DH simply because we were no longer happy in the marriage.. his answer to this is that it's much easier for a woman - because the DC always stay with their mum - (our divorced were 25 years ago when 50:50 just wasn't a thing .. so I did him some slack on this issue)

This phrase to me always seemed to suggest the old-fashioned set up of posh unfaithful husband away philandering with his stay at home wife none the wiser. Until the classic glamorous OW, of course younger, demands he marry her.

So either he chucks OW for a new less demanding mistress and stays married. Or he divorces and then gets quickly bored with monogamy, his second wife no longer excites him now she’s stuck at home cooking his dinner so he cracks onto another young work colleague.

I don’t think it’s really relevant to most people’s relationships or lives anymore, if it ever was!

Oh how I wish I was 'the glamorous ow' ! In my case as DH says ' am I the only man who left his wife for an OLDER woman ? ' ex was 40 I was 44

I think there is a difference though still it is painful six week affair and you leave vs people who cheat for months and months and months or even years.

The type who leave very quickly where always going to leave just a nudge of an affair helped.

The type who cheat long term have a moral compass issue and are just cheaters in general who are likely to do it again and likely did cheat with multiple people before.

Yes, there are genuine affairs, exit affairs and serial cheaters.

I know couples who've stayed together long-term after beginning their relationship as an affair. I think it really depends.

Sometimes life brings people into our lives that make us happy when we aren't happy where we are. Sometimes it takes those people to jolt us into making a huge decision about ending a marriage. I knew I was unhappy, but 'I made my bed and had to lie in it'. I carried on in an ok marriage for years living like brother and sister in separate bedrooms. But after that first kiss with another man, I knew I had to leave. That was the end of my marriage.

It takes a very strong person to divorce because they aren't happy, especially if they have children. You could tick along, it's ok, but just not right. It's a very difficult decision to make, in comparison to domestic violence, financial abuse etc where people should and must leave.

I think MN judge affairs far too quickly. Affairs aren't the acceptable thing to do. But there are so many reasons that people have them. It's not just black and white. I didn't plan mine! I don't agree with the 'once a cheater, always a cheater' either. If I met the right person, adored them for who they were and they me. Then why would I need to cheat?!

I would much rather have met the right person, the first time and never have had to put my child through living in two houses, whilst carrying her clothes about. It totally broke my heart when I walked her to her Dads new house and said, 'your Dad will be living here and this is your new bedroom'. when she was 6.

I wished for my DD to see what a loving relationship should be like when I meet the man I should have been with. I wanted her to learn about good relationships. Sadly, that hasn't occurred yet 7 years later. But I live in hope.

I have had a few married men coming onto me in the past 7 years and I wouldn't entertain it, because I am still of the mindset that you shouldn't mess with someone else's husband! You can't have your cake and eat a side of extras. They tend to be the men who will never leave their wife. But, I have also been a 'mistress' for a few weeks through being trust worthy of the words they spoke.

I think it’s @Itsonlymashadow is spot
on.

Of course some affairs happen and they end up being a successful relationship. We all know these.

But the truth of the matter is it is highly unlikely. However many of these a poster ‘personally’ knows of, the data is really clear. Relationships borne from infidelity are unlikely to make it past five years. If I remember rightly it’s something under 5%.

It’s the statistical failing in these relationships that led to new thinking around infidelity and away from the marriage/relationship being the issue but in many cases the cheat being the issue.

A relatively recent study found that if you cheated in a past relationship you’re 3/4 times more likely to cheat again than someone who has never cheated. Put simply a relationship with a prior cheater is riskier.

There is an ingrained selfishness and entitlement to cheating. You are robbing someone of their right to personal agency, their right to INFORMED sexual consent and putting them at risk of STIs. They are considered abusive.

That character flaw will remain if the cheats don’t really truly dig deep to feel remorse for their actions.

I know of cheats who cheated on their spouses, stayed married and have not cheated again because they saw the damage and grew from it.

I know of cheats who left and describe their actions as the most selfish thing they have ever done and they would not repeat it as they saw the damage it caused and grew from it.

But I know far more who didn’t do either of these things and cheated again.

So ‘once a cheater always a cheater’ ‘leaving a vacancy for a mistress’ etc is of course nonsense BUT it is a red flag to consider if they’ve done zero work to grow and learn from it.

I think I read somewhere that second marriages are more likely to fail than first marriages. So there is that sense that if people have already been through a break up (whether an affair was involved or not) they are more likely to go through it again in a subsequent marriage, as many people take their original issues and baggage with them into their new relationships and run into problems.
So if an affair was their particular way of expressing their unhappiness in the first relationship, you can see how it could be repeated if subsequent relationships also do not live up to the fantasy.

My DH was married when we're met as mature students. We connected the very first day we met and 4 hours later our tutor asked if we were married. We burst out laughing and she said " one day you will be, it's like you are one person ". We weren't intimate in that time, before the relationship split. Just amazing friends. We tried to keep our distance stance and didn't talk for weeks but his wife kicked him out 4 months later. Here we are 22 years later and I love him so deeply and with such gusto that it takes my breath away. I trust him implicitly, he could be in a run of naked nubile couples having sex asking him to join in and he would probably go and put the kettle on as they look thirsty. Probably make a sandwich or two for sustenance.

I mean his reasoning makes no sense. And this is where the issue arises.

He never left because he feared losing his kids. Or not seeing then as much.

But left anyway when he found someone else. Once he met you that fear went away? How? And why?

Or did he simply decide that was a now a risk worth taking? As a woman, that would put me right off a man. If the situation was that he had to stay for the kids, then chose me over the kids, I wouldn't be comfortable with him saying 'I want to be with you enough I will risk my relationship with kids for you.

You know the man. I don't. You built a bind with him. But that's why I wouldn't ever trust a cheater Or build that bond wiyh them. Because the reasoning makes no sense to me.

I don't think cheaters are always bad people. Wether people are good people or bad people is based on far more than one situation. That's like saying a serial killer who donates massive amounts to charity is a good person. That one good deed doesn't wipe out all the bad they do. I don't think cheaters, automatically, wipe out all the good they do by cheating because they cheated. Its far more nuanced.

But I wouldn't be with a cheater.

I've got to laugh at that, so it took him six whole weeks to get over the heart break of leaving his children. They obviously mean a lot to him. People will say anything to justify their affairs I guess. Grim.

Tbh it's just something that sounded a bit clever the first time someone came up with it and is now repeated by people who think women should get some karmic comeuppance for being an OW. I think there's truth in it in very limited circumstances. If the man (I say man because you rarely hear the saying about men have who affairs with married women) is a serial cheat, or if he's a sleazy creep older man who is only interested in younger women and will continue to chase youth as his partners age. It takes no account of the affairs that happen because people find 'the one' when they're already married to someone else, or for exit affairs that are out of character and a response to deep unhappiness in the marriage.

I 100 % agree in 2nd 3rd 4th changes . But I don’t agree in affairs it’s a bad start to a relationship as it can cause enormous pain and hurt to another person.

My view is don’t shag around testing the water if ur not happy own up and leave .
I’d never trust a bloke who had an affair never cause u now know what there about

How did you not talk for weeks? You mean out of the class? On the phone/ texting/ email?

Hard to believe you didn’t carry on talking in the class when you were so ‘connected’ and your tutor assumed you were married, presumably due to body language and a severe lack of boundaries. He doesn’t sound very decent or chivalrous if this was how he behaved with a compete stranger of the opposite sex without his wife present. She had presumably given her full blessing for him to pursue being a mature student, little knowing she was sending him into the arms of another woman. Unless she was abusive, which I’m sure you’ll now argue she was, I feel sorry for her and hope she’s met someone a lot better and more respectful.

Of course people should have second chances, but behave appropriately. If you're that unhappy you have an affair you leave before the affair, to me it just shows what a selfish or self centred person you are if you have an affair.

Your circumstances simple prove your dh likes you more than anyone else during your relationship. It doesn't prove he's a nice man, or it's soul mates as he's already proven that if your relationship deteriorates or he finds someone he fancies, he'll have an affair rather than fix the relationship or leave you.

I think statements such as 'surely everyone deserves a second chance' with regards to affairs obviously haven't had to deal with the soul crushing reality that the one person in life that should have had your back will willingly do the one of the most hurtful things imaginable to you

Some very wise words @Itsonlymashadow

I do think affair marriages last more than they should not from a moral point of view but because who wants to of blown up a/two families only for it to fail as well. Where as the view of well at least it worked out makes it not seem as bad.

This was very much the thing when someone I know married his affair partner. Its was a well at least it was worth it… those proper not in the know however don’t realise just how unhappy both are and they would separate but they both feel they need to prove it was worth it. In fact the feeling of regret not of leaving the ex’s but overall was in before the marriage. But the marriage acted as a way to legitimately make the affair worth it. One of the two has a person on the side.

@Sceptical123

We were really close friends for the first few weeks but we realised very quickly it wasn't "right " and there was something between us that was possibly dangerous. So we tried to avoid each other as much as possible which was quite difficult in a small class of 12.

Of course his wife wasn't abusive. They had been together ten years and he had supported her through her degree and then he decided to go himself. They had drifted apart and had very separate interest. They were just ticking over and started drifted apart. Hardly shocking or unusual. He could have chose to stick with her, she could have chosen to work on her marriage. He came to me after they separated and we got together per much right away.

I will agree that there likely was something of a lack of boundraries on my part, I was quite carefree myself and having a great time at uni. But our connection was intense. It still is. I can feel him looking at me when he enters a room, he's my absolute soul mate and we both knew it when we met. It's gushy and cheesy but he absolutely completes me and we are still head over heels in love now. His first wife has remarried and gone on to have children and there is no animosity between them.