Read so much about Affair Partners create a vacancy ..

[ap1999]

Interesting and I know it will not be popular but have nc and donned my tin hat - but .. so many threads in hear about 'marrying the mistress just creates a vacancy' ..

So my DH and I met through an affair.. I was already separated but still living in same home as ex DH .. current DH was still married but contracting away from home and as it turns out - his ex was seeing someone who she is now married to.. I had 3 kids he had 5.

In total I was married for 16 years and him for 13.. we have now been married for 25 and very very happy.

Is it not the case that sometimes people marry the wrong person first time round .. ? Even our kids say that we are ALL much happier ?

The only change I would have made would be the 'affair' part ... for us it was 6 weeks but it would have been better if he had left before. My DH says he agrees but at the time it was not about leaving a disinterested and hostile wife but the heartbreak of leaving his children.

Everyone now in their 20s/30s and all good .. but honestly.. do people really not believe in second chances ?

‘I think statements such as 'surely everyone deserves a second chance' with regards to affairs obviously haven't had to deal with the soul crushing reality that the one person in life that should have had your back will willingly do the one of the most hurtful things imaginable to you’

@WoodBurningStov completely and utterly agree. Affairs are horrendous in the harm they cause. I watched my own close friend have suicidal ideation after her long term partner’s affair. I suffered mental health issue including hypervigilance and extreme anxiety after going through that same. We may as betrayed ‘smile and wave’ but the trauma is very real. The lens you view your life through is completely shattered. It’s not ok and there is NEVER an excuse for doing that to a person you are supposed to hold so dear.

It’s very clear that the ones involved in the affairs on here have rewritten the narrative. Lots of their poor sausage cheat being dreadfully unhappy and how all the children now agree it was the best for everyone nonsense. I always roll my eyes a bit.

I agree with this. I think in some cases it’s a case of the grass is greener - then when they’ve been through the inevitable devastation regarding broken families and come out the other side, some ppl will make more of an effort with this 2nd relationship, bc reality has hit and they don’t want to go through it again, and as you say, also want to justify their actions.

I think 5 children over 13 years and then having an affair is hugely problematic. It’s beyond messy

This...I think he left his life (wife & children) for a different life. I can't imagine the household was relaxed as 5 children in such a short space of time is very hard work.

I know of one couple who has an affair and are still happy together but they were young and without children. The other couples that remain together don't seem happy because life post divorce is more challenging - arguments over children, money worries, difficulties with ex partners scheduling holidays, Xmas etc. Another couple are happy but the man has completely lost contact with his adult children from his first marriage. He seems to view it as a cost worth bearing as he has a much younger wife now. Would he cheat again?, Perhaps but at his age I doubt he has the opportunity.

An affair is most likely to ruin any chance of an amicable relationship with the ex because it isn't respectful and it also involves deceit.

Those who are the affair partner did you ever ask how they covered up the affair to the betrayed spouse? If I heard the lies it would kill the attraction for me (perhaps burst the affair bubble??).

How do you know he hasn't been unfaithful to you though OP?

This is a really emotive topic, so I'll try and make my point sensitively.

In a long term relationship, especially with children, it is almost inevitable that those two people are going to hit a rough patch of some description. Not enough sex, not considerate enough to each other, not prioritising the relationship etc.. At that point, it's not unlikely that one partner (probably the man, assuming a hetero SAHM set up, because he'll be out meeting new people more frequently) will meet someone find someone who flirts with them, and wants to have a lot of sex with them, wants to do things for them and prioritise them. At that point they might have a wobble and consider leaving/starting an affair.

If partners left at the wobble and as soon as there was a risk of an attraction or attachment or affair developing, as some posters have said would be kinder or more ethical, there would be a lot of relationships that split perhaps for no reason. Splitting up your family, hurting your partner and children so much, is a huge thing to do and not something people often do just because they've fallen slightly out of love, people carry on at that point because change is hard anyway without the weight of hurting those people. Even meeting someone who is great and starting an affair might not seem like a good enough reason to leave, because they'd be causing all of that emotional pain and the burden of starting a new life for the chance of a new relationship turning out well.

I know a few men who have had affairs. I don't agree, but the reason they give for not leaving is that they can't break up their family unit, devastate their partners and force them to start new lives, and significantly reduce the amount of time they can see their children just so that they as an individual can be happy. They're flawed and they have cheated, but they don't want to hurt their families more than necessary. They feel it would be more cruel and damaging to leave or to tell their partners they've cheated or they've met someone else, and that the kinder thing is to live with the guilt and protect the children/partners happiness and lifestyle/wider families etc. I don't think there are many men who would take a huge drastic traumatic action when their relationship situation feels steady, if unfulfilling. I also think they can't win - if they leave for no reason (i.e. before an affair starts) they're cruel selfish bastards, if they leave for someone else they're cruel selfish bastards. It's traumatic and awful either way.

I don't think I've explained that very well.

Sorry @Ginginninggone you truly believe that once they’ve had an affair they become these noble men who just want to protect their families and loyal wife from the devastation of divorce?

No. No they don’t.

Infidelity, - and I’m not discussing being cheated on by your boyfriend at uni and thinking you know what infidelity is - is utterly abusive.

It involves

• putting your spouse/ often PARENT of your children at risk of STIs
• removes the right to informed sexual consent. I do not know a cheated on partner who was willing to open their marriage
• Removes their right to personal agency, making decisions based on the truth of their lives. How many mortgages/wills/loans, another baby have been made while poor sausage cheat is having their ‘needs met’ elsewhere. Do you honestly think those decisions would have been made with full disclosure.
• abusive behaviours gaslighting, lying, removal of affection and sometimes verbal/emotional abuse towards the partner because they’re not the new shiny.

All if these are part and parcel of infidelity. When I didn’t even know I was being cheated on I developed anxiety and mental health issues I had never had before because I was working so hard to please and nothing I was doing was right or good enough and I did not understand why.

If they’ve cheated they’ve done all of this.

Not informing their partner to their cheating just continues the selfish and entitled behaviour.

It’s not an altruistic act, it’s an act that is still all about THEM!

*Not informing their partner to their cheating just continues the selfish and entitled behaviour.

It’s not an altruistic act, it’s an act that is still all about THEM!*

Completely agree. Don’t want pay child support/lose equity in house/have to do own laundry etc/lose face with friends family who think of them as a good guy/dad/provider. Entirely selfish.

@Usernamechange1234 Apologies, I'm not trying to undermine your experience and I'm so sorry that you went through that. The intent of my post was to explain the cheating partners internal logic and justification to themselves for their decisions, not me excusing their behaviour.

I'm sure you don't mean to sound smug OP, but you do, even though you admit you're a cheater and you don't speak well of the victim in this - his exW, which doesn't make you look like a nice person.

It may be that you and your H were destined for each other, but the reality is it only took your H six weeks of shagging you to walk away from a long marriage and five children. What's to say he won't have his head turned again?

As a PP said, you don't know for sure that he's been faithful to you, he may have just gotten better at hiding it 🤷‍♀️

@Ginginninggone thank you for your response. I actually feel that my story was one of the ‘not so bad ones’ after reading on here. I was aware very early on to my husband’s cheating, I caught him early, but I remember every time I did something to ‘cheer him up’, make his day a bit brighter because he was so down (I seriously thought he was depressed) with absolute devastation and humiliation. I am all for empathy. I actually do get people can do rotten and terrible things and still be good people, but what I can’t stomach is the minimising of cheating. The idea that cheats somehow get away with it because they weren’t having their needs met in the relationship.

My heart absolutely breaks for the countless young mums I’ve known who simply couldn’t meet the ‘needs’ of their man children husbands as they had children and I’m tired of the excuses and idea that somehow they are to blame and that the man is doing a noble deed by staying. They stay because it works for THEM. They were selfish and entitled when they cheated, they’re selfish and entitled by keeping quiet and claiming to anyone that’ll listen that they did it for everyone else. That’s bs!!!

I think the way they’ve framed it as staying for the benefit of their wives, children and ‘wider families’ is bullshit. It’s what assuages the guilt of fucking someone new and shiny. Their self-imposed penance of staying in the comfort of their family home, regular sexual, security, no child payments, respectability to family, work and the outside world, cooking, cleaning, laundry, childcare taken care of in most cases and avoidance of any of the nastiness of ppl close to them calling out their sexually-driven selfish ways.

It’s called having your cake and eating it.

They’re not thinking of their families, it’s all about how it affects them.

No, you've got the internal logic wrong.

They are not upset that they are cheating. The real upset would be being found out, that their mother and father would know, their siblings, their sons and daughters looking at them like piles of shit.

The children living through the pain of one of their parents heartbroken and abused. They need energy to fight all this kickback, they need a made up narrative so friends and colleauges don't think they are a complete twat.

The lies arn't just within the affair, they are at the heart of everything, pre affair, during and post affair. It's a huge plan that needs meticulous planning if they are to come out relatively unscathed and there will be a damaged victim.

That is their objective.

Believe me it's not about protecting the wife because whether they stay or go the damage is done.

Taking your points on board, thank you. From your perspectives, let's say a married man with small children meets someone he has a connection with. At what point is it the right time/point along that journey to a) raise it with his partner or b) end the existing relationship and began separating the family etc.? What's the right way to handle it?

Get a time machine, go back and don't get your partner pregnant, because you were never mature enough to make babies and a family.

Small children, ffs.

To be clear, the situation I've just raised is hypothetical and made up - I'm not asking "for a friend". I understand the time machine answer too, but that doesn't really answer the question either.

Surely, a married man with small children when he meets someone he has a connection with reminds himself that he has a wife and small children and these are his first responsibility, and he says to his connection person, ‘ am sorry, you are lovely, but I am married and it would be wrong to pursue this. I wish you well’.
DD’s dad (we were married) left when she was a baby for a connection he had made. So I understand that this is not what all married men with small children do. But it is what they should do. Because they had a connection with their wife to start with and they made a baby with that person and let her think that their future was together.
And if he thinks there are problems which need addressing with his wife, he tells her this and does not retrospectively construct a narrative to excuse his behaviour.

Well I suppose you cut dead the connection, some people come across people they fancy a lot, but if you have love and respect for your partner, you dont go there.

But if you are asking about actually going ahead and being a selfish bastard and abandonning your young family, I should imagine there's not much you can do about the timing, you just have to suck up the hate.

Currently from your partner, and inlaws and in the future your children, there is no garantee they will like or admire you, it's a chance you take. Even if they like you when young I've known grown up children grow up and realise how awful their father's behaviour was.

If you don't mind being a dissapointment though, crack on.

This is a prime example of what I was saying earlier.

The flawed logic.

If your premise is that you are staying because you know it’s best for the kids, then non of the rest tracks.

Having an affair can be hugely devastating on the kids. If the kids are the focus having an affair (wether you stay or leave) doesn’t make sense. By having the affair you are putting your kids at risk of a hugely damaging situation that can impact them for the rest of their lives. No one having an affair, is having an affair cause it’s best for their kids.

And why does the prospect of having a relationship with someone else, all of sudden mean the whole ‘the kids need me to stay’ suddenly doesn’t matter? Why all of a sudden, do the kids not need you to stay?

What’s changed for the kids? Why does the parent being sure they can have a new relationship with a new person mean the kids are better off if the parents split?

The reasoning doesn’t make any sense. And that’s because it’s a lie and excuses.

You are beginning to sound extraordinarily naive.

Affairs aren’t about these amazing connections that just HAVE to be followed through. They’re not about soulmates. They’re not some mills and boons romance. FWIW I blame society for over romanticising an act which is far from loving or romantic. They’re transactional, seedy, scrap throwing and abusive. The ‘connection’ is usually just two desperate people with deep rooted flaws finding each other. If it is OCCASIONALLY more then I agree that it would tend to be an exit affair which clearly some have had on here. In that case the cheat LEAVES. And these are more likely to fail than not.

The men you speak of, made a choice to get married and/or have children. They took vows, they took on huge responsibilities to have children who they would take care of. Your argument (strangely) is that it is this responsibility that drives them to stay after their affair but it’s the ‘connection’ to the affair partner that pulls these poor men into having affairs. Almost as though they are victims to their own circumstances.

This is obviously ridiculous nonsense.

We all have personal agency. We all have the ability to make the right choices. Abuse of your spouse/long term partner through infidelity is NEVER a choice that can be excused. It shows a deep rooted sense of selfishness and entitlement.

It’s important to note that the men you seem to have such empathy for may be abusing their wives and families in other ways. Infidelity is the behaviour of deeply flawed people. There may be future affair partners/hookups therefore more risks of STIs, there might be addictive behaviours, financial abuse, emotional abuse. Some of these men I know are also domestically violent. I’m not saying this is every man who has had an affair but it’s certainly not uncommon.

My suggestion is you get a copy of ‘cheating in a nutshell’ to find empathy for these men’s wives and so you shut them down the next time these sad sausages come to you for sympathy.

But he didn't just leave his wife for an older woman did he? He left his 5 children too. So he left his wife to be a single parent to 5 children. What a catch he was OP. It's great that he's so happy now.

I think that is a good point. Plus, he is setting two women in competition for himself (the prize!) and forgetting one has born and raised five children of his, with all the attendant loss of her own time that entails. No doubt his first wife dared to ask for help and support with the five DC and I am betting that the husband did not have anything approaching 50/50 care.
It is like my ex, who was quite controlling and emotionally abusive to me, when I wonder how it is that his now partner and he seem to get along fine with no issues - the answer is simple - no children to look after and he can come and go as he pleases. He is living his best life because someone else is looking after DC and he just does the fun bits of parenting. I am not bitter, after all, I have seen DC grow up into wonderful young people, but if this man in the OP is congratulating himself for not being a stereotype on age, he is very much a stereotype on desertion.

And as for marrying the ‘wrong person’ first time round, having five children with the ‘wrong person’ does show quite the lack of self-awareness.

The saying is just a saying, obviously!

someone treating their partner and DC that way reflects badly on them, to say the least, and suggests some unpleasant character traits / behaviours.

your H had 5 DC to consider. rather than stay (if he wanted to) or divorce in a respectful way chose to have an affair then to leave for an OW. And seemingly still doesn’t see why that was shitty. Yuck.

My position is not that I don't think these wives are being wronged or that these men have followed some kind of mystical connection with the people they have affairs with. As I said above, I'm struggling to articulate what I'm trying to ask.

I think it's unrealistic to say "well just don't" or "get a time machine". I am in no way saying the men in these situations are victims by any stretch, but life is long and hard and complicated, and everyone is flawed. Mistakes and bad choices are made or considered. My question is how and when should men who are wavering in their marriage address it, because it seems to me there is no good answer outside other than just don't.

When it comes to the Op, I have to wonder why she posted.

My experience is that people who are happy don’t care about cliche sayings about relationships similar to theirs.

People who are happy don’t feel the need to have their relationship validated by strangers. Or m, with no prompting tell strangers why their relationship is different, is that special. Or start a conversation to tell people how they may have be an affair but actually everyone is happier and it turned out to be the best for everyone and they actually did everyone a favour.

Op has gone out of her way to pass on his excuses. Almost like she wants someone to validate she is right to go along with his reasoning.

I suspect that even after all this time op isn’t happy with his reasoning. Hasn’t been entirely comfortable with it. Still has niggling feelings. Maybe isn’t sure it was worth it?

I don’t know. But it’s a weird thread to start. Especially when inserting insults about someone their husband divorced 25 years ago. I just get the ‘everyone is so much happier’ line isn’t quite true and Op is almost trying to convince themselves by convincing people here.