Splitting wedding costs when calling off wedding

[justfindingmyway]

Hi everyone,

Turning to MN for some advice here, if anyone might be able to help.

I’ll try not to go too far into the particulars of the relationship here, as there’s so much that’s unhealthy and wrong (he’s emotionally abusive, hasn’t yet turned physical but has made threats) so I don’t want to distract from the point too much.

I’ve been in an emotional ‘cycle’ with him for some time now, with him being the ‘perfect’ partner when I think I am ready to leave, but then the awful behaviours come back.

I’m coming to the realisation now that even though it may be incredibly tough so ‘start over’ at 33yo, I need self preservation as far as possible.

We had a wedding planned and stupidly, I coughed up the deposits, planned it all and signed the paperwork.

Cancellation costs are now very considerable, but perhaps a small price to pay in the scheme of life.

i have asked more than once now, that he settle his half of these costs, so we can move on.

Well, shock, he hasn’t and I suspect won’t. He’ll start getting nastier over this when I ask. Another way he shows me how life would be with him and why I have to escape.

i am just hoping and praying that legally, he needs to pay me this. Obviously this was our wedding. I even tried to call it off and went as far as exploring this with the venue. But I allowed myself to be lured back in. This money means a lot more to him than me (he has hundreds of k wrapped into property and investments - I have a few k, a nice sum but a drop compared to him), and it would be money I’d need to start my new life away from him.

Does anyone have any advice or experience in this please?

thank you for reading

Thank you so much for this. It was so validating and truthful, I’m having a big cry. The realisation has hit me this weekend, of how miserable life would be with him, but the parallel is the realisation that I’ll get out, which I pray one day will be a relief, but right now I am so very full of doubt, and he makes that all so much worse.

his behaviour is ramping up now, because I think the realisation of him having to tell people the wedding is off has kicked in. Perhaps he feels it’ll put a question mark over his character, I know his friends all thought we were the ‘perfect couple’ because he was so attentive and kind to me in public.

The new game is ‘well if I’d have known you felt this strongly about my behaviours, I’d never have proposed, so I wish I knew that before wasting my time’. Hopefully I don’t need to explain that of COURSE I told him these behaviours were unacceptable. But do you see, it feels like he has the need to flip this all off of him, and onto me? That actually he’s now realised he doesn’t want me, because I don’t ‘accept him for him’? I know so many of us have suffered these tricks. It’s just so hard when you’re in it, and I think my desire to please and be liked makes this feel very shameful, that it was too good to be true that someone wanted to spend their life with me.

i want to slap myself, but also know I need to be gentle with myself right now. He berates me enough as it is. I can’t tag team him and bring myself down further xx

@justfindingmyway

I hope those tears are cathartic rather sorrowful. And yes, you will get out, after you have carefully gotten your ducks in a row.

As far as his behaviour ramping up, that's to be expected. Both because he sees you slipping from his grasp AND because he doesn't want any aspersions cast his way. Unfortunately, that means he will cast aspersions on you to anyone who will listen. But remember "Them that mind don't matter, and them that matter don't mind". Part of this type of situation is that you may very well find out who your true friends are, and as painful as that can be, it is something worth knowing.

As far as him trying to turn the blame on you, that's also to be expected. If you're not familiar with the term 'DARVO', have a google. It must be your fault because is certainly can't be the fault of Mr Perfect. Especially not in the eyes of friends and relatives.

The key right now is to stop talking and especially, stop listening. And to avoid being in the same space as him as much as possible. Be out when he is in. Be in the bedroom when he's in the living room. You get my drift. We are conditioned by these men to sit and listen to what they say, whether it's blaming us for climate change or the rising cost of living, or the latest tale of their magnificence at work/sport that day. It's a hard habit to break, because if know we don't listen attentively they accuse us of 'not loving them', which we feel we must prove to them constantly. But guess what......you don't have to do that anymore. He knows your intentions and he's going to use his whole arsenal of guilting, negging, and browbeating to put you back in your box. Don't let him. Remember JADE. Never Justify, Argue/Apologize, Defend, or Explain. Just remove yourself from the 'discussion'. Say "I'm not talking about this anymore" and leave the room. If you can't then put in your earbuds or pick up a book and stick your nose in it. It serves a twofold purpose. It shows him you are no longer under his thumb and it also stops you hearing him putting you down/justifying himself. One caution, if you feel he may become violent go carefully and don't be afraid to call the police if he threatens you in any way. And I mean it, even if he says it in a semi-joking manner.

One thing to understand about abusive men and you can take this to the bank, they know what they are and they know that victims are hard to find and train. That's why they hold on to their current victim so hard at the same time telling them how shitty and worthless they are. Let's face it, if a 'normal' man found a partner so terrible, he'd leave her, right? But abusive men don't, do they? They hang on hard and use every trick in the book to make her stay. Why? It's because they don't want to have to spend the time, energy, and money to go out and get a new one. They have to put on the charm, sublimate their true selves, and spend money wining and dining. Then they have to convince her to move in so they can start the manipulation and 'training'.

Yes, you need to be gentle with yourself. But sometimes that can mean giving yourself a stern but loving talking to. No negative language, no criticism. Just a calm "Stop engaging with him. He's an arsehole so there's no point.". And remember that counseling is a wonderful way to build your self esteem and stop behaviours that are 'not in our own best interests'.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. But you'll make it to the finish line with flying colours.

I’ve been in this position op.
16 years ago my ex upped and left.
I ended up being lumbered with all the costs relating to our wedding, joint debt and a joint mortgage.

I must have lost at least 10k because of him.
But.. it was the best thing to ever happen to me. 6 months later I met my lovely husband. And we’re very happily married with 2 kids.

I remember the panic at the time and the worry about the money lost. But once everything was sorted it was literally the best thing to happen to me.

Thank you for sharing this with me. I LOVE that you found your happy ending after that. I’ll have lost similar, perhaps a little more. Perhaps, and I hope, that I’ll see that as the cost to happiness one day. There have to be men out there who’d never be this way.

Thank you sooo so much for this wonderfully articulated message.

What you’ve said about feeling the need to listen to them and how important they are so true. And I’m sure you can imagine the number of times I’ve been told ‘you aren’t supportive enough for me’, ‘you don’t know how to handle someone like me’ and ‘you need a man who is flat and monotone so he doesn’t ever upset you’. I’m sure this must be another very common trick of the trade, I just had no idea up until now. Whilst I had some sadness from previous relationships ending and me not loving myself enough to allow myself to fully heal before moving on, they were ALL gentle men. Perhaps a little lost in what they wanted, but none of them were like this.

i have moments of anxiety where I think, got what If he buys me out of my house. Moves someone else straight in and carries on where he left off with me. I know I need to find a way to heal myself to such an extent that I wouldn’t care, but that feels like a real steep climb!

I think your advice about minimal engagement whilst we live together (as far as possible) could be useful. I have to tread relatively carefully as if he suspects, I know he’ll make life very difficult. As far as he’s concerned right now, I’m leaving ‘us’ where we are; marriage off, but carrying on. I want to have my ducks in a row before pulling the trigger, as I know life would get much more difficult from then on. I hope that doesn’t sound awful, I know I’m being deceitful there really. I don’t want to be that way, but I feel I have to preserve myself to some extent, and if I keep putting this abusive man’s needs before my own, I’ll disappear eventually xx

thank you again so much for your encouragement and advice. I owe you a virtual coffee/wine :)

Firstly well done for doing this before you married this guy and it was even harder to untangle yourself. That's brilliant. congrats on your non-wedding!

In terms of the cost, keep pushing. I know so women who've given up cos of the hassle and it's so unfair. Can you be a bit of a bastard about it? I also know though that your peace and safety is more important than money and that money stuff can make men go a bit mad which could be dangerous. So good luck and look after yourself OP.

I hope he pays his share and good luck.

@justfindingmyway

I’m sure you can imagine the number of times I’ve been told ‘you aren’t supportive enough for me’, ‘you don’t know how to handle someone like me’ and ‘you need a man who is flat and monotone so he doesn’t ever upset you’. I’m sure this must be another very common trick of the trade,

It certainly is. It's to keep us 'proving ourselves' to them. In other words, tolerating anything they throw at us because to do otherwise is to 'prove' to them that we don't love them 'enough'.

i have moments of anxiety where I think, got what If he buys me out of my house. Moves someone else straight in and carries on where he left off with me

Love, if that happens then you just thank your lucky stars that it isn't you who is starting the long, terrible journey that you escaped from. And you spare a thought for the unfortunate woman who is starting that journey, because you know what's going to happen to her. And be grateful because if that does happen, you will cease to exist for him, for he will have found his new victim. I know that may sound unfeeling, but there's nothing you'll be able to do for her, so just be relieved for yourself. And remember that houses are nothing but bricks and sticks. You'll find another and it will have no memories of him within. It will be a fresh canvas on which to paint your new life.

I hope that doesn’t sound awful, I know I’m being deceitful there really. I don’t want to be that way, but I feel I have to preserve myself to some extent, and if I keep putting this abusive man’s needs before my own, I’ll disappear eventually xx

It doesn't sound awful, nor are you being deceitful. You are protecting yourself from further abuse. There's nothing wrong with 'self defense' and that is what you are doing. You know the result of NOT doing it, disappearing. And you have an absolute right to do whatever you need to do so that doesn't happen.

Right now, being 'stealth' is the best and safest thing you can do for yourself. You need have no qualms nor feel any guilt for doing it.

Thank you, again, really helpful and I feel heard and validated in ways I never do outside of Mumsnet and the small number of people who do know what’s going on.

i have one final, awful hurdle to get past now, which I don’t feel comfortable sharing but I really do think was the last straw. I wish it were something that I’d look back on and feel angry, but it isn’t that. It was like one final thing that he did to make sure, even once I’ve left, I’ll hurt forever. I’m sure things are no coincidence. I feel he senses it all, and more desperate and devious measures come out :(

thank you again for hearing me. I have to believe now that I’m stronger than I realise.

my next plan is to minimise my house if things I don’t really need, so as to make it an easier job to leave. Less for storage, less to take to my mum’s xx

Then I'm afraid it is you that is liable

Congratulations on not marrying him though. Seriously. Congratulations. Loads of people would have just gone through with it and hoped for the best. You're made of strong stuff and I wish you well.

Thank you. This is helpful to hear. I’m 34 this year so I don’t want to become desperate to do all those things in too short a space of time. I have to try to accept what life brings now xx

Thank you! You know, despite the sad mist that covers me right now, I do feel one day I’ll be grateful to myself for acknowledging how I felt. Perhaps someone less in tune with themselves would’ve kept it buried deep. I struggle to see it right now due to overwhelm but things have to get better x

Do you want children OP? That might help you find the strength to leave. Have you talked through with your therapist what leaving could look like? I wish you well.

Have you cancelled anything yet? sooner the better

@justfindingmyway

i have one final, awful hurdle to get past now, which I don’t feel comfortable sharing but I really do think was the last straw. I wish it were something that I’d look back on and feel angry, but it isn’t that. It was like one final thing that he did to make sure, even once I’ve left, I’ll hurt forever. I’m sure things are no coincidence. I feel he senses it all, and more desperate and devious measures come out :(

You don't have to share anything you don't want to share. But don't discount the idea that you may be able to change your feelings even if you can't change what he did. You don't deserve to hurt forever, especially because of something he did or forced you to do.

Please get counseling, even if only for this one issue. People have overcome things that seem insurmountable with counseling. And remember that counseling is 100% confidential and that counselors have heard 'as bad', if not worse, that what you have to work through.

Counseling may not make it 'go away', but it can help you find a place for it in that deep, dark closet in your head where it will only rattle occasionally. When that happens you will find peace with whatever it is. Because it's not about being angry, it's about living with it in peace.

Thank you ♥️

I didn’t have drama like this before this relationship! My previous partners were all very stable really, just didn’t know which paths they wanted to take. This has shaken me in ways I’ve no idea if it’s possible to heal from. We can heal after a lot of trauma though, can’t be? It’s within, I’m sure.

i am so very fortunate to have private healthcare through work and so was granted 20 sessions. My therapist has been a godsend! I’m not sure where I’d be without him through all of this. In fact, this is the second group of sessions I’ve had over the last few years, all because of this relationship.

still, I feel sad for him. He has a character flaw that I don’t think he can fix. But I do feel sad for him, that he cannot love unconditionally, and therefore probably will never feel unconditional love. I am not an expert, but it appears he doesn’t have empathy, and doesn’t even acknowledge his own ‘feelings’. He does, however, express emotions very unpleasantly. I wonder what happens for a person to become that way…he was never abused. His family are lovely, but if anything, he is totally enabled and babied, when he is stressed they rush in to make life easier. Fighting fires so to speak

@justfindingmyway

I didn’t have drama like this before this relationship!

And that can be what makes us so vulnerable to manipulators. We have no 'frame of reference' that enables us to recognize red flags nor to extricate ourselves in the early days.

still, I feel sad for him.

And that's fine. Pity has nothing at all to do with love. Pity is an emotion that is devoid of love. Sympathy, yes, that's what we feel for people we love. Pity is what we feel for people we are 'standing away' from. As far as why he is the way he is, honestly, I think some people are just 'wired differently' and the way they are has nothing to do with their family or their upbringing. But the thing about believing in the 'wired differently' theory is that you also have to accept that someone like that does not have the ability to change.

I'm glad you have therapy available to you. Honestly, it changed my life all those years ago. Just be honest and unafraid and you'll get to where you want to be.

You’re so right about the being wired differently. So you find that something hard to accept? Maybe my thinking is too black and white, I just find it so hard to believe that a person really could want to harm someone else emotionally ‘just because’. The ones I think of would be serial killers in prison, not just ordinary people you meet in your day to day life!

Imagine not knowing what real love feels like, or not even wanting it!!

It’s incomprehensible to me.

thank you!! I’m going to grit my teeth. I don’t even think I can imagine how hard I’m going to find this, although I wonder whether I’m overthinking it. Emotional pain is awful but people go through heart ache all the time. Some people are just happy alone!!! My ultimate goal is to be happy within myself, so that a relationship is just an option. I haven’t been in that place since my early to mid twenties, and I did want to meet someone then, I just focussed my energy on work, exercise and doing what I wanted to do. I still wouldn’t say I learnt to become happy and at peace. I hope I have it in me xx

@justfindingmyway

You’re so right about the being wired differently. So you find that something hard to accept?

No, I really don't. But I expect my answer would have been different in my younger years as opposed to now, in my 60s. I've seen quite a few people who were 'wired differently' in my life so I know they exist. Just remember that to say 'accept' does not equal 'approve'. Sort of like a mountain. We neither approve nor disapprove of a mountain, we just accept that it is there. We then decide whether to go back, walk around it, or climb over it. In my 30s I may have railed against the mountain, decrying the need and the time it will take to get to the other side. But now I know that that energy is much better spent in just getting on with it. The mountain is there, whether I like it or not.

The ones I think of would be serial killers in prison, not just ordinary people you meet in your day to day life!

I've met, not serial killers, but people who have no social conscience and who have committed disgusting and terrible crimes. Some of them have come across as quite nice people. We don't know what is in the psyche of another person when we first meet. That's why it's important to develop that sense of caution and of not taking people at face value. We don't need to be overly suspicious, just a bit guarded. We need to put our own best interests first. And we, especially women, are not taught to do this. We're taught to 'be nice' and that thinking of ourselves first is 'selfish' and if a first impression tells us that a person isn't someone we want around us, we are being 'unkind'.

My ultimate goal is to be happy within myself, so that a relationship is just an option.

That's it 100%. We need to be 'sufficient unto ourselves', to enjoy being on our own and be happy by ourselves. Then if opportunity knocks, we'll be ready for it because we'll be calm and assured that no matter what happens, we'll be OK.

You have the most wonderful way with words, have you been told that before? I bet you have. I’m off crying again. I could seriously do with you as my guardian angel, you’re amazing.

you are so right about the expectations placed upon us women. Calling someone out for their sh*tty behaviour feels uncomfortable to me, and like an attack. I have done so in this relationship, but he knows to shame me for it. Says I’m a terrible partner for thinking that of him, and what kind of partner accuses their fiancé of not behaving like a good person. The same always seems to get me. Guess that’s people pleasing for you.

is it possible to know a little more about you, and your life experience that brought you to where you are now?

thank you for your wise words xxx

There's always an exit tax.

@justfindingmyway

I'm nothing special. I've just lived many years, experienced a lot, and seen many societal changes. I guess 'wisdom' in its many forms comes with age. You live long enough, you're bound to learn something!

I do think the decades I grew up in has been beneficial and eye opening. I saw the birth of Women's Lib in the US in my early teens and saw women go from June Cleaver 50s housewives to 'take no prisoners' Women who expected to be treated fairly, at home and in the workplace. Unfortunately there wasn't a parallel 'Men's Lib' movement to show men that they could accept women as true equals and take on some traditional 'women's roles' without endangering their masculinity. Well, some did and came to no harm. But many, especially men in power, weren't going to cede one tiny iota of their male privilege and unfortunately some women backed them up on it and also unfortunately many of those men and women were in the position to shape public opinion and public policy. But I saw women fight and win equal rights and reproductive freedom. The war isn't over, and these days it seems we may be going backwards a bit, at least here in the US, but there will always be women (and some men) who will be fighting for all of us.

But that era of social upheaval gave a lot of us younger women/girls a front row seat to what was right AND what was wrong in society and in relationships. And although many of us (self included) ended up in abusive relationships, we knew deep down that it was wrong and that we deserved better.

And, although most of us were raised by 'June Cleavers', we usually had someone female in our lives to show us how to 'kick ass'. So we learnt from them and try to pass that knowledge on.

I don't know if I could be in the running to be anybody's Guardian Angel, I think that God would get a good chuckle if I applied for that role. But if I was going to picture myself as anything 'wise' it would be that older neighbour who sits on the front porch dispensing words of dubious wisdom to all passersby, wanted or not. lol.

Remember that part of what you're going through now is your own 'learning curve'. Through this you, too, will acquire wisdom that will both benefit you right now, and that you will pass on when the time comes. So learn and remember. And don't be afraid of facing him down and always believe in yourself. Because someday some young woman will look at you and silently think "Man, she can kick ass. I want to be like her!".

I totally agree with you about us going backwards. It’s fantastic that we now have choices, and question things rather than putting up with whatever we are dished up. I still feel the stifling of gender bias at work at times, but even in my 12 years in the corporate world, I think it’s moved forwards. But you’re right, women took positive action for themselves, whilst it appears many men stayed exactly as they were. We now work as much, earn well, but our home lives are often exactly as they were, I.e. a ‘woman’s work’. We get handed a son from their mothers who are nowhere near fully mature, and probably never will be.

As you say, at least we know now about abuse, what it looks like, and the internet can provide a world of solidarity among us. Women are amazing, and I would love to meet so many MN women in real life. I’ve never felt so heard and seen as I do in these threads. And hearing your experiences is brilliant, I love it.

hey, those old porch ladies often leave a fond imprint on people’s memories. It seems to me that as women mature and get older, they care less about what people think. See things as they are, and realise life is short. Actually, for me, my twenties and thirties (thus far) has made me want to slap myself for my neurosis, I think I am being quite self absorbed in all this, when the world is full of vastly more important problems and experiences! I hope that with all your wisdom, you are living a happy and authentic life.

oh I hope so. Even if life goes in an unexpected direction, I hope I learn to be a person who is wise and can provide wisdom as you are now. That truly leaves something that is passed down the decades. It is nice to know we are all in this together, and we all experience the same struggles in other guises xx

Also, if you’re ever in London, I owe you a drink :) and a big thank you for your time and understanding

But you’re right, women took positive action for themselves, whilst it appears many men stayed exactly as they were. We now work as much, earn well, but our home lives are often exactly as they were, I.e. a ‘woman’s work’.
We get handed a son from their mothers who are nowhere near fully mature, and probably never will be.

Well, now, as the mother of two grown sons who were raised to be competent adults all I can say is not to generalize. And remember that boys (and girls) are raised by their mothers and their fathers, so the blame needs to be laid at both their doors if they have't taught them responsibility and respect.

I think that we don't hear about the men who are helpful and pull their weight. Those men and their wives/partners are just quietly getting on with their lives, divvying up the home with what works for both of them. We do hear a lot from the women whose husbands are a waste of space. They're complaining about it and rightly so. But I do think the men who share the load outnumber the ones that don't. At least, that's what my experience has been.

It seems to me that as women mature and get older, they care less about what people think. See things as they are, and realise life is short.

Nail on head. When there's more in your rearview mirror than in the road ahead you decide not to suffer fools gladly and you realize that your dreams and needs are just as important as anybody else's.

Actually, for me, my twenties and thirties (thus far) has made me want to slap myself for my neurosis, I think I am being quite self absorbed in all this, when the world is full of vastly more important problems and experiences!

Don't feel that way. We were all idiots in our younger years, you just have to shake your head and say "Thank God I know better now". And the time will come when you look at those mistakes say "Those bumps in the road and the past choices I've made, good and bad, have brought me to this place, the place where I belong". And you aren't being self absorbed at all. You're working on yourself so you can be a positive influence on those around you and by extension, the world. Ripples in a pond.

I hope that with all your wisdom, you are living a happy and authentic life.

I am. I don't know if it's due to wisdom, blind luck, or both. But after I worked out my own 'stuff' I was in the place to 'see' a good man, marry him, and raise a family with him. We're retired now and life is really good. You'll get there, too, whatever form 'life is good' will take for you.

If I'm ever in London I'll take that drink! It's long been a dream to come to the UK, so you just may find me knocking at your door with an empty glass in hand lol.