"Why don't women just leave their abusive partners??" ....

[OnlyHerefortheBiscuits]

....is along the lines of what I used to think before I read Lundy Bancroft's book.

I've long suspected my childhood friend's husband is coercive/violent abusive and spent years expecting a call at some point from her asking for help. That call came last year. I heard about this book on here and told her to go and read it. I read it too, thinking it might help me understand her situation better... and oh boy it does.

The first half of the book, while the author describes the nature of abuse and the different profiles of abusive men my thinking remained unchanged. "For goodness sake why do women put up with this? This is red flags for days...why do they get involved, why not leave etc etc"... I found it a frustrating read but persevered.

BUT THEN the second half of the book talks about abusive men as fathers and how it shapes their children's belief systems. It was like a lightbulb. My friends dad was not exactly great...reading Lundy's explanation made total sense how she had gone on to choose the man that she did for her husband.

The second half also talks about how abuse can ramp up after having left such a man, in that he can manipulate and play the legal system, family courts, mental health professionals etc, damage the mothers' relationship with her children etc.. some of the stories were heartbreaking. I understand now it's not just as simple as leaving.

I hold my hands up and say I was very ignorant before reading this book. I was wrong. If like me you hold the same viewpoint I had before... I strongly encourage you to read this. But do it with a highlighter pen in hand!

Has anyone else read it and had their thoughts massively changed? Or did you read it and it helped you?

I haven't read this particular book but plenty of others (its on my list). I think one of the major issues is lack of awareness on both sides. Abusers often don't see their behaviour as abusive and the abused person struggles to recognise that they are being abused. It can very often be (c)PTSD related. Abuse creates changes in the brain (essentially mini brain damage) that makes it harder to recognise it - reduced blood flow to the areas of the brain responsible for emotional regulation, vocalising etc. The earlier it happened, and the more frequently, the more damage and the harder it becomes to recognise it as abuse or as the previous poster said becoming naturalised to it.

Also - the 'freeze response' a nervous system coping mechanism - or "I don't respond or notice it" because it is too much for the psyche to cope with. This pattern hugely helps a child who is being abused for instance, at the time just to check out when there is no other option but this 'freeze' pattern becomes really unhealthy later on in life.

Kind of explains why people continue in the abuse cycle, I believe. But it doesn't always have to be someone with a previous history. Check out the recent Mel B interview if you haven't heard it (also on spotify), where she got caught in an abusive relationship at a vulnerable point in her life - and then for 10 years, took 7 goes to leave, - and didn't comprehend it all properly until afterwards. It can happen to anyone, regardless of anything.

It could be really frustrating perhaps, to the outsider who can see clearly what is happening, as with so many of the posts that seem like obvious abuse issues but for many people, its like something is switched off - a blindspot, that we (survivors of any type of abuse in particular) all need to work on, and regularly, in order to be able to perceive such situations as accurately as possible. The good news is that if we do this we can break the cycle (IMHO). Currently happily single. Peace.

It has been good to read this today. I left an abusive relationship 6 years ago when my children were 1, 5 and 7. Recently I have wondered why did I bother with the trauma of leaving, when he very much continues to control and abuse us all. But probably the children most. And I left for them.

I need to do more but I'm not sure what. I am working with a DV team over how he currently treats them, but I am low on the list as he 'only' emotionally and mentally abuses them.

Just feel stuck in this never ending shitshow.

I highly recommend his other books too - especially "When Dad Hurts Mom", about the effects on children before, during and post separation

My then partner wore me down so I felt like my whole life was in my house with him. I was scared to tell friends and minimised everything. Then he said if we split, he would take the kids (just under 2 years old). I was a strong, independent soul yet had become a shell of myself. Even to this day I don't think any of my friends can comprehend what I went through with him. Strangely he's now changed for the better but I try and keep hold of what he put me through rather than minimise it.

What helped was someone rationally telling me that my ex wouldn't get the kids as had a record for hassling women abusively. Till that point i thought it was a foregone conclusion. Then me realising if I didn't get out, my kids would grow up terrified like me. I was lucky as financially solvent but ended up leaving my own home to get away from him initially.

Agree with how the abused party functions according to this. However, as most abusers limit the abuse to their partner or children it shows that it absolutely is something they can control or choose not to do. The fact they don’t do it to their friends, colleagues, other family members etc shows that they DO know it’s wrong and DO have the ability to stop doing it. It’s about power and control over those parties

Certainly agree it is within their control but often they may be unaware that what they are doing is wrong, the same as many women are unaware that what is being done to them is wrong so wont limit this behaviour.
Perhaps applies more to psychological and emotional abuse rather than physical but even so you will hear something like 'oh he didnt mean to do it" etc etc. I am also speaking with some prior experience of being in that situation.
Some studies on this would be interesting to see but in general most of us are functioning on past patterns rather than awareness of our behaviour? It certainly changes the landscape if we realise that not only are abused women functioning in a fog of trauma, that some men could be too. Understanding (not allowing) that behaviour could be a way forward?

if we realise that not only are abused women functioning in a fog of trauma, that some men could be too. Understanding (not allowing) that behaviour could be a way forward?

Abusive men are not functioning in a fog of trauma.

Their behaviour is a power establishment and maintenance strategy.

It is deliberate.

Men who've worked with abusers and abuse victims for decades, like Lundy Bancroft and Don Hennessy state that categorically.

There is no way forward with them other than to end the relationship when their values - which underpin their behaviour - and behaviour becomes apparent.

Oh and how come their fog of trauma somehow clears to allow them to act differently with officers of the law, the judiciary, bosses, mates, other people inc men who could physically hurt them if they tried their shit with them.

How very specific and convenient their fog of trauma is.

Hand up here. The abuse from my ex husband is never ending. I left in 2022. He has 50/50. My children all display typical behaviors of children subjected to emotional abuse and manipulation.

The local women’s group to me are great and have excellent counseling for children. However, I can’t use the therapy for my children because I’m required to get his permission.

During our marriage he turned up for exactly 3 IEP meetings at school. I attended the numerous meetings at school of which there were so many I couldn’t keep up with my job during regular business hours. I would often be working until 3am because I had taken 4 hours out to attend a meeting.

He is absolutely impossible. This weekend he shows up to my daughter’s 2nd football game with his girlfriend and her children. Her children come over to play with my children. Fine. I say nothing. My elder daughter goes over and sits with them, which I’m fine with. She comes over and says ‘why don’t you introduce yourself?’ Hmmm it’s my weekend with my children. He shows up with his girlfriend and he expects me to walk over to introduce myself. Meanwhile the girlfriend has walked somewhat near but never actually spoken to me.

The first football game was missed because my autistic eldest child was not able to get herself out of bed, eat breakfast or get herself ready for the day. As her equal parent, during my time I have two choices which are to explode and manage her meltdown or let it go, miss the first game but my eldest daughter be able to attend and be productive for her math tutoring. I chose to let her have her time, miss the first football game and be productive for math tutoring. I go on the communication app and he has sent a message accusing me of failing to support the younger daughter playing soccer, has demanded I give him notice of when she is playing and tell him immediately if she isn’t able to play along with the reason.

I have no words left to reply to the man. I’m busy working with my eldest to reduce her anxiety. I can’t have an open conversation with any of my children because the reality is anything I say will be used against me by him. I’m intending to leave the state here in the U.S. where I live. If he pushes back, I’ll sign the kids over, waive my rights and pick up the pieces at 18. I refuse to continue being abused by this man. He won’t stop and the courts are knowingly ignoring the evidence. Long term, if the court isn’t going to believe me, my best option is to walk away, signing my rights away so I’m not financially abused by him. I’ll leave it recorded with the court as to why I’m doing this. Yes my children will be traumatized but they are already traumatized because he has to have complete control over them. His new girlfriend is as toxic as him. She works at a women’s shelter so she should see the red flags. I’ve had to go to a different county to get help because he was using the domestic violence group for free legal aid, claiming I was controlling and abusive to him.

there was a very good, if harrowing bbc podcast about this: Assume Nothing - Femicide: Eight Steps to Stop a Murder

worth a listen before judging a woman for not leaving.