"Why don't women just leave their abusive partners??" ....

[OnlyHerefortheBiscuits]

....is along the lines of what I used to think before I read Lundy Bancroft's book.

I've long suspected my childhood friend's husband is coercive/violent abusive and spent years expecting a call at some point from her asking for help. That call came last year. I heard about this book on here and told her to go and read it. I read it too, thinking it might help me understand her situation better... and oh boy it does.

The first half of the book, while the author describes the nature of abuse and the different profiles of abusive men my thinking remained unchanged. "For goodness sake why do women put up with this? This is red flags for days...why do they get involved, why not leave etc etc"... I found it a frustrating read but persevered.

BUT THEN the second half of the book talks about abusive men as fathers and how it shapes their children's belief systems. It was like a lightbulb. My friends dad was not exactly great...reading Lundy's explanation made total sense how she had gone on to choose the man that she did for her husband.

The second half also talks about how abuse can ramp up after having left such a man, in that he can manipulate and play the legal system, family courts, mental health professionals etc, damage the mothers' relationship with her children etc.. some of the stories were heartbreaking. I understand now it's not just as simple as leaving.

I hold my hands up and say I was very ignorant before reading this book. I was wrong. If like me you hold the same viewpoint I had before... I strongly encourage you to read this. But do it with a highlighter pen in hand!

Has anyone else read it and had their thoughts massively changed? Or did you read it and it helped you?

This is my fear as well. My h projects his trauma onto others. Now that he knows his relationship with me is in jeopardy he is abusing the kids. I have reported all of it but I don’t know if the evidence is going to be enough to limit his rights.

Came on here just to moan about the sexist nature of the title.

"Why don't women just leave their abusive partners??"

it should read “people” not “women”, men are just as likely to and in some studies more likely to be a victim of domestic violence.

any moan over.

The thread is about WOMEN leaving their abusive partners. Go start one of your own. And I’d like to see those “studies”. The real numbers speak volumes given how many WOMEN not men are killed by their abusive male partners each year. And the entire issue is tied into misogyny. Like your comment

what i was trying to say is that if we want to eliminate sexism/racism etc in society then people need to be more inclusive.

why is this thread about women? And not “people”? Surly victims of DV whether male or female have similar issues to address.

I work closely with DV charities across the Country and studies into male DV are very few and far between but what little research has been done does indeed suggest that DV against men by woman and same sex partners it’s just as common as male/female DV. Although it does present very differently, ironically men tend to use emotional abuse whilst women use physical violence in VERY general terms.

sorry for the thread hijack.

Hmmm, tone policing and attempting to shame on a thread about abuse. Irony alert!

Also the abuse via children which causes many women to stay is very much a specifically woman's problem as women overwhelmingly do the bulk of the childcare and are the primary carer.

I have a friend in this situation. Always did 99% of the parenting in the marriage, ex tried to get 50/50 custody to hurt her and minimize his financial obligations. Now of course he does at best 15% even though on paper it's 50/50 as is always dropping out last minute and of course friend will always step in as wants to be there for her kids. And he knows this. And taking it back to court is time consuming and costly. Also some of his neglect has harmed them so she is wary of leaving them with him for long periods so doesn't want to insist he honour the 50%. Every woman knows a woman in this position I think, it's partly why if your spouse is a little controlling but not that bad women decide to stay.

Please provide the citations for the little research that exists Fatherbob. I would be curious to know if it excludes male on male violence and abuse and how it relates to whether and how women can leave abusive male partners, which is the topic of this thread.
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I do not doubt that women can be abusive, however, I do question whether female on male abuse is as prevalent or deadly. I also know that male on female abuse used to be allowed or at least condoned in law and women had to fight to have ‘cruelty’ recognised as a grounds for divorce - that is how much society condoned male domestic violence. It is also the case that women are at a population level more likely to be in low paid or part-time work and therefore have less financial autonomy which makes them and their children vulnerable in abusive situations, and to have specific barriers to leaving a harmful situation.

However, as noted above, regardless of this, it is also perfectly fine for women to talk about the problems women face as victims of domestic abuse without including men, and this does not need to be justified. it is indeed indicative of the entitlement which many men feel to control women’s lives and spaces and discussions that there is a man popping along to remind us that women are perpetrators of domestic abuse as well and we need to be inclusive.

Content warning - my next paragraph mentions suicide.
Let’s say you started a thread on a forum mainly frequented by men about how male suicide risks could be reduced. A valid question given the fact that men are more likely to die by suicide than women. And I popped along and said, but women die by suicide as well, you need to be inclusive and include women in your discussion. That would entirely fail to recognise the gendered societal reasons why men are more likely to die by suicide than women.

Yes you make many valid points. But I don’t want to him hijack This thread so I’ll bow out gracefully.

@Fatherbob it worries me that you ‘work in this area’. Have you actually read the thread? A number of women have been brave enough to share their past and current experiences and you come along and ask ‘think of the menz!’

You have to be kidding me!!!

It also highlight the massive issue of the Cohabitation Bill not being passed. I, like many others, were and still are trapped because we weren’t married and have very little rights around access to property, when of course, the abusive partner earns more and insists everything is in his name, and all the £££ and labour you contribute is worth nothing (has to be substantial renos you’ve paid for), likewise all the promises he’d made about putting property and pension in your name. Telling someone they’ve been naive and an idiot doesn’t do justice to the coercive and financial control they’ve suffered

@HippyCritical

I hear you about the cooking. Mine did exactly the same, he would add things to a dish he knew I didn't like every time, despite me asking him not to. I then was accused of never thanking him for cooking my meal. His sole purpose in life was about actively making me unhappy but turning himself into the victim.

Thank you for sharing this specific example as my kids' dad does this I couldn't quite decide if it was intentional or oversight, but when you look at the overall patterns of humiliation, put-downs and control, of course it is intentional

Some women are just terrified of their abusive partner if you haven’t experienced it you wouldn’t know ..most women if they left would take their children with them

Thing is you CAN’T simply take the kids with you in most cases. The abusive ex then keeps abusing you through the children, and the children themselves, by going for maximum contact to punish you etc etc. The courts still don’t recognise this

Your wrong you can leave and take the kids in an abusive situation ESPECIALLY is the devices get to know pluse you can get restraining orders I’ve been there

Sorry especially if services get involved

The crucial thing is cycle of abuse
They are not abusive all the time

You can't get restraining orders when the sbuse is "only" emotional or psychological abuse, or coercive control in some countries,. Even though non-physical abuse is stated as illegal in the law, the family courts simply won't provide protection orders on these grounds. Therefore you cannot get protection for your children The family court effectively enables psychological abuse of children.

Also, when you have been psychologically abused you end up not trusting your own judgement so often it takes time after separation to realise how severe the abuse has been, and to see the the children are being abused badly too. If you agreed to shared care at the time of separation it is extremely difficult to change this via the family court

Yes you can abuse is abuse …and especially where children are involved

This might be true where you live but this is not the case in ALL countries in the world.

No I get that and it must be super hard …I know it was very difficult for me even when I had lots of help police ..counselling protection ect …it was still very hard so I appreciate what you are saying

This book resulted in the scales falling from my eyes. Up to then I thought it was possible for the abuse to stop, that there was hope that he would be nice to me again, that there was something I could do to make things better and that he would realise how cruel he was being.

I had the book delivered and kept it at work because I was afraid of what he would do if he found it. I read it and realised that it was nigh on impossible for abusers to change. Because they don't see what they're doing as wrong. I was devastated but knew then that I had to leave.

The abuse has carried on in a different form because we have to co-parent. But it's better than the daily fear of living with him.

Please read this book if you're in an abusive relationship. It will help you understand so much and will hopefully give you the strength to leave as it did me.

@gcask

I couldn't quite decide if it was intentional or oversight

They are usually very good liars and actors which can make things seem like genuine mistakes (especially when he earned your trust so well at the beginning) but, as you say, when you look at the overall pattern of behaviour it should hopefully become clearer.

Turtletunes
Your recommendation looks like a very good read.
Gaslighting was deemed my imagination.

I’ve been abused in the past. The reason I didn’t leave is because of what I’d lose. Even as a teenager, escaping from a boyfriend who abused me would mean losing his whole friend group and being alone because I had no other friends, so I put up with it in order to be allowed to hang out with them. For older women it’s often the house, money and kids that prevents them leaving. And the biggest reason: the abuser will get partial custody and you won’t be there to protect your kids.

I ask myself most days why did I stay and why did I have 3 kids with the man. There are tons of reasons from low self esteem that was battered further and further to finacial reasons and being a 'fixer' by nature. Whenever I got close to leaving, he'd change tactic and beat me back down. It's such a complex thing. What I can't wrap my head around is women who finally gathered the strength to leave and end up in another abusive relationship. I did so much work on myself once I was free, I feel I am now bullet proof. But I guess some women don't do that and have such damage they can't recognise abuse anymore.