"Why don't women just leave their abusive partners??" ....

[OnlyHerefortheBiscuits]

....is along the lines of what I used to think before I read Lundy Bancroft's book.

I've long suspected my childhood friend's husband is coercive/violent abusive and spent years expecting a call at some point from her asking for help. That call came last year. I heard about this book on here and told her to go and read it. I read it too, thinking it might help me understand her situation better... and oh boy it does.

The first half of the book, while the author describes the nature of abuse and the different profiles of abusive men my thinking remained unchanged. "For goodness sake why do women put up with this? This is red flags for days...why do they get involved, why not leave etc etc"... I found it a frustrating read but persevered.

BUT THEN the second half of the book talks about abusive men as fathers and how it shapes their children's belief systems. It was like a lightbulb. My friends dad was not exactly great...reading Lundy's explanation made total sense how she had gone on to choose the man that she did for her husband.

The second half also talks about how abuse can ramp up after having left such a man, in that he can manipulate and play the legal system, family courts, mental health professionals etc, damage the mothers' relationship with her children etc.. some of the stories were heartbreaking. I understand now it's not just as simple as leaving.

I hold my hands up and say I was very ignorant before reading this book. I was wrong. If like me you hold the same viewpoint I had before... I strongly encourage you to read this. But do it with a highlighter pen in hand!

Has anyone else read it and had their thoughts massively changed? Or did you read it and it helped you?

I read this and felt so bad for you! Is there no way you could leave...really?

....is along the lines of what I used to think before I read Lundy Bancroft's book.

I've never read the book - fortunately I've had no personal need to. I admit it's certainly what I used to think until I started reading posts on the MN Relationships board though. I know better now.

The Bancroft book, and to a greater extent the Hennessy book (Pat Craven, I couldn't get into but a lot of people rate it) highlight that the real business of an abuser is the psychological breakdown and control of their partner.

Apparently abused women (and rarely men) share thought patterns and characteristics with captives and torture survivors, including Stockholm syndrome.

Victims might suffer physical injuries, but the real business of an abuser is a head-job.

That's why they take so long to leave or don't leave.

It helped me sooooo much. It’s what made me realise I was being abused and I understood more of the unpredictable nature of my H and his moods and outbursts. It’s about power and control, not normal anger. Once I saw that everything clicked and I wanted OUT.

"By the 21st century, psychologists had expanded their understanding of the Stockholm syndrome from hostages to other groups, including victims of domestic violence, cult members, prisoners of war, procured prostitutes, and abused children".

Interesting snippet in an article about Stockholm Syndrome.

Do they teach young girls about this sort of thing nowadays and also lovebombing etc?

@Janpoppy I'd like to see equivalent stats on the U.K.

The one thing that ties the top groups is possibly age group. Those women are more likely to meet men that are 35 + . Some of those men will be single for a good reason. The women themselves might be emotionally & financially vulnerable after their last major relationship, possibly worried about the future and suffering from self-esteem issues. Not a good mix with the wrong man.

It’s a brilliant book. Please don’t be dismissive of those who are sincerely helping women in abusive relationship

@RubyOtter It was MN that made me realise that his behaviour (that I was aware of at the time) was abusive, although I was very limited in how much I could access it because he told me he could see everything I was doing on the computer. Whether that was true or not I don't know but I couldn't take any risks. There was a time I was talking about something innocuous (so I thought) and he blew up "Where did you get that? FUCKING MUMSNET??". Later he asked me in what he thought was a subtle way if I posted on MN. Oh, I wouldn't dare said I, they'd make mincemeat of me.

I hear you about the cooking. Mine did exactly the same, he would add things to a dish he knew I didn't like every time, despite me asking him not to. I then was accused of never thanking him for cooking my meal. His sole purpose in life was about actively making me unhappy but turning himself into the victim.

I also hear you about thinking you were going mad. At one point I actually genuinely thought I was going crazy but could not for the life of me articulate why. But I was still carrying on with normal life. If it hadn't been for my family, quietly waiting for me, I would had much more serious thoughts about ending my life.

I hear you about your whole post actually. The sitting room thing.

When mine left he said he'd carry on paying the bills. I don't know whether that was still so he had control or because he was too lazy to sort it out. I asked him time and time again to get on with it (I had no access to any financial dealings during our marriage so didn't even know where to start). I eventually phoned the utility companies, explained my situation and got it sorted in a day. The biggest problem was our shared Nectar card, they couldn't do anything with that without his lordship's sayso. So I spent all the points he had insisted were never spent (that had been accumulated on shopping I had paid for anyway) and got myself a new card. It's the little things that like that that are a big part of becoming yourself again 😎

@RubyOtter :( I think that's part of the issue - the exceptional behaviour at the beginning completely confuses the woman. She doesn't know which part is & isn't real, and doesn't want to let go of the person she thought she was with. Instead of accepting it as fake, she clings on thinking that nice nature is under the surface somewhere, if only she tried hard enough, stayed for long enough to see it again.

100 percent this. With my partner, when the bad moods first appeared, I thought he was having a bad day. Then I thought “oh it must be due to finishing his postgraduate degree and the stress of the thesis”. Then I thought it was his job. I kept waiting for a kind man to reappear. Things only got worse. After a few years of marriage he said we were such a good couple bc I was stable and his moods were all over the place. That is exactly why the relationship is so exhausting and suffocating for me. I manage his moods. Being someone’s rock is exhausting. He acted like he couldn’t stand me most of the time and then would say things like “I’m happy in our marriage. Let’s do a vow renewal on our 10th anniversary”. My thoughts: “What? I thought you felt contempt for me (and could never figure out why)!” It’s just impossible. The nice and stable man did not exist. It wasn’t a rough patch or a bad day that finally showed up - it was the real him and it got worse.

I found this article that explains trauma bonding really well I think:

https://www.saferplaces.co.uk/blog/traumabond#:~:text=What%20is%20a%20trauma%20bond,harder%20to%20break%20free%20from.

Did you manage to get out and if so what was his reaction?

I cringe when I think of some of the things I did and put up with. As I said before, I thought I was standing up for myself at the time but I see now he just batted that off and changed his tactic to get me to still dance to his tune.

I feel like he was the centre of a scale, me on one side, touching rock bottom, and his girlfriend, up there, reaching for the stars. As the time has passed after he left I imagine the scales have changed direction. I don't know because I don't see her but I'd put money on her going through a lot if not all of the feelings I went through when I was with him and she'll be a lot lower than she was back then. And now I'm the strong one still revelling in the relief of not being with him.

I agree totally.

Same here. The things I read on MN and Bancroft's book really opened my eyes.

I do wish there was a societal shift too from a default where girls and women are expected to appease, serve and ‘be kind’ - I think even women who aren’t in abusive relationships fall foul of this.

It’s the other side of the coin to the insidious ideology that men are allowed to sit back and excuse themselves from domestic responsibility but can have free leisure time and anger, violence and power are ‘natural’ defaults for them.

We should all be teaching our daughters to be assertive and powerful. And to become wise to male bullshit.

@RubyOtter My ex wasn't that bad, but I did feel like I was a nuisance, a fly buzzing around. He's highly introverted and not suited to living with someone, in my opinion. He would disagree with that, but contact was often very much on his terms. Unless he wanted to call upon one of my services (cuddles in front of the TV when he was done with gaming, emotional support like cheering him up from one of his many moods), then he seemed mostly to just want to be left alone in front of his PC, with his headphones so that he was in his own world.

All that sighing and huffing in either low-level frustration & anger or contempt.

I’m in the middle of trying to get out. We have three children and they are young so it is complicated. I didn’t know if it would be safe (some physical violence history and some towards my kids - all reported to police and children’s services although he does not know I reported). I have been applying for refuge places but it’s complicated bc they see me as self employed and a doctoral student so nothing is available to me yet. I’m also trying to get a council house and legal aid is partly lined up for divorce and children’s proceedings. I tried to leave to stay at a friends house and officially separate but realised it was not going to work and was going to create drama bc my H would want to see the children. I don’t want to go to a refuge and start over if we don’t have to. For now my h knows I am upset and have separated from him in the sense that he is sleeping at his mums house near by but coming over during the day and to help put kiddies to bed (they don’t realise he isn’t here all night). I was amazed he agreed to this for now but am sure it won’t last. I will need to sleep in a spare bed. So far he has handled it well and is watching his moods but I wonder if his moods will reappear in due course (as usual). So I am just waiting until legal structures are in place and potentially until I have a place to go as the house is in his name and with his history of violence I don’t want to live with him during divorce proceedings.

Most women who are in abusive relationships often have very low expectations and a sense low self worth, through no fault of their own. Even if They come across as confident and having it all together. They also worry about their own safety and what would happen to their children should something happen to them, because although Women's Aid and the police do a fantastic job, we all know the statistics. Most have become isolated from friends and family due to the abuser, they have no support.
You also have to consider many do still love their partners, no matter what. As hard as that is to understand they have developed an almost ingrained trauma bond which is incredibly difficult to break. It's why so many who do leave, then go back, they can't imagine a different way of life without their partner. It's incredibly complex. the relationships can have extreme highs as well extreme lows, the pendulum swings to both extremes, there is very little in the way of middle ground. They also don't always consider themselves victims, they will often make excuses for partners behaviour. They will blame themselves.
It's much easier to leave someone when there are no emotions, feelings involved, it can take years and years of abuse for women to get to this stage and this is when they stand a much better chance of making a proper go of it alone.

I am going through the leaving. Well, have left but now he is abusing our daughter instead. Which is precisely why I didn’t leave in the first place. The legal system needs to catch up and quickly. Father’s rights, no matter what sort of father they are, are prized over children’s safety - emotional and physical. It’s the cruelest position to be in. Esp when his family back him, make out you must be crazy (despite all evidence to the contrary) and blame his “outbursts”
on stress or simply say “he wouldn’t do that”. Other women who are supportive of this behaviour are simply misogynistic