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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Wife says I have a problem. More arguments

160 replies

DadSpeaking · 16/03/2024 18:42

We have some friends that we regularly meet up with 6/7 times per year. His wife is lovely and her husband is too..except when he has had a lot to drink. My wife says he just very friendly and what he does is just banter and I over react. But I feel he oversteps the mark and he makes me feel uncomfortable each time. But it seems now to be getting a little worse each time.

This week we attended a funeral and went to the wake where there some.drinking after..I was there with my wife and not drinking. His fiancee was very busy with the people so we were left more with him chatting. He was his usually multiple huggy self but nothing I was concerned with at that point. He always focuses his chat towards my wife rather than engage both as a couple.

I left to get the car and move onto the wake house. His fiancee went in another car and he came out with my wife and 3 other from the wake going back. We didn't really know these other so realtive strangers. He always seems to manage to be in a position where he is near my wife but this could be me of course. There was too many for the run, 5 but instead of my wife going in the front of her own car. He manoeverd his brother in law to the front(who was going to walk the short journey) and sat in the back saying to my wife she could sit on his knee. She didn't but thankfully but squeezing in on the end of the seat but they were all squashed together her sort of tilting into him sort of side on.

As we drove on he announced to me and the 3 strangers. That he could feel all my wife's bumps and he was really enjoying it. I was dumbstruck and the joke as my wife calls it was met with complete silence In the car.

We went into the house and I didn't want to say anything or cause a fuss at wake house. We stayed for maybe another hour. Where he kept coming up putting his arm around my wife and hugging etc saying how lovely she was. His fiancee was off again so not around as normal (to keep him in check). He did this again only this time telling me I was punching above my weight. Done in a jokey way but I felt less jokey and more of a dominance show. He the. Turned around to fa e her front showing his back to me and was almost in a kissing position where he proceeded to whisper into her ear. I thought this all very strange but could not cause a fuss at such a sensitive place.

He did this a final time again up close and personal. I don't know what he said in her ear..but my wife was slightly taken a back. Before saying "you wish." We announced we were leaving to collect our kids.

I was quiet on the way back and as this normally would result in argument I said nothing. But as time passed I began to get more upset l over..so I raised it with her and said I wasn't happy about all that gone on with him and asked what he whispered to her. She said that he had just whispered a joke that she couldn't remember now. It was nothing hardly worth remembering. It made no sense to me that a. She couldn't remember and it could have been a few words which would have been difficult as a joke. Maybe insulting but that would invoke the surprised and 'you wish" response.

I really wasn't bothered and held my wife at no fault at all, I just felt he was taking advantage of my wife's good nature and wanted to know what was said. By the reaction and words I was already guessing exactly what he said..If she just told me we could have just moved on..

I now started to get concerned and pressed more, I felt her diversion, gulps and lack of eye contact were seemingly untruthful. I may went to far and said I felt she was lying to me that she did know because she could recall everything from the evening except this specific bit. She just kept brushing off as a joke she couldn't remember or why she had said that to him.

Cut to now. We are really arguing, she is telling me I am totally blowing this out of proportion it was all just banter and screaming at me to drop it. Now she denies even saying you wish and being shocked at all, despite admitting prior she had said it to the joke he had whispered.

This has gone from her being totally not to blame for anything to now having major concerns by me why she may or may not be lying to me.

She is telling me just drop it. But there is this nagging instinct as I had witnessed first hand it all was not right.

We are going away with them in Easter and I don't want to go..she is now saying I am being ridiculous. Am I..I am at a loss what to do!! I feel I can't ask her anymore but I feel I need to get to the truth.

Help

OP posts:
Pashazade · 16/03/2024 18:53

I'm guessing she didn't want to tell you because she knew it would upset you and you've proven her correct. It appears she has done nothing wrong except being the unwilling focus of a perv who knows he can get away with it. So why are you screaming at her? You need to get a grip this is not how to communicate your fears.
You should have waited till it was all calm and said that his behaviour towards her made you very uncomfortable. Are you normally possessive. Unless she was actively encouraging him you need to stop blaming her.

Pashazade · 16/03/2024 18:55

Oh and either you trust her or you don't but right now she feels like you won't believe a word she says. I would drop it.

hollyandivyknickers · 16/03/2024 18:56

Don’t go away with them at Easter

whatever your OH has done, he’s trying to wind you up as he enjoys it.

or next time you see him punch him really really hard, as a’joke’ and see how he likes it

Pinkbonbon · 16/03/2024 18:58

Tbh you've escalated this. You've made your wife to blame for a man's behaviour. Or at least that's how she feels. You probably owe her an appology.

Now, if she has form for cheating or, you have any reason to believe shes cheated with this guy I could understand...

But as is, you just seem to be letting your own insecurity fuck you up and be taking that out on her.

Why didn't you just call out the inappropriate behaviour? It takes nothing to say 'who do you think you're talking to?' 'I beg your pardon', 'keep your hands to yourself you creepy bugger', 'well THAT was inappropriate' etc...

You were too much of a wuss.
And now you're taking that out on your wife.

And do you know what your instinct is likely about by the way? He's been more than inappropriate with her at a time you didnt know about and she doesn't want to cause a fuss. So shes playing his behaviour down. Maybe she's a wimp too.

But then, women are constantly told they are to blame for men's behaviour. Now her partner is throwing a strop like a child with her because of another man's actions. What a surprise.

DadSpeaking · 16/03/2024 19:00

I am not screaming at her. Just asking her but as I feel the responses are less reassuring but actually causing more problems. If she just said he was being a perv we could have just moved on. But the less honest she seems to be the more I am becoming sensitive as to why she isn't being open about it.

She didn't really discourage anything at all but then I think she is a very nice person and less street wise with men.

OP posts:
LeoTheLeopard · 16/03/2024 19:01

Pashazade · 16/03/2024 18:53

I'm guessing she didn't want to tell you because she knew it would upset you and you've proven her correct. It appears she has done nothing wrong except being the unwilling focus of a perv who knows he can get away with it. So why are you screaming at her? You need to get a grip this is not how to communicate your fears.
You should have waited till it was all calm and said that his behaviour towards her made you very uncomfortable. Are you normally possessive. Unless she was actively encouraging him you need to stop blaming her.

Yeah, so much this. If you had kept your head you could have asked if he had said something to upset her (not you!). Now you’ve left her having to deal with a perv and an angry blockhead, alone.

You need to (a) restart the conversation with her again when you can behave yourself and (b) sharpen your wit to deal with him. “Oi Jim, I suppose you’ll want to be sitting next to my wife so you can letch over her again. We had a great laugh at your expense the last time”.

Durdledore · 16/03/2024 19:02

He sounds like a total knob. Don’t go away with them at Easter, he’s not your friend.

If I were your wife I would totally understand why you didn’t want to go and tbh I wouldn’t want to go either with him behaving like that (although I would be more direct with him than she is being about the unwanted contact although we’re all different and no shade on your wife).

unsync · 16/03/2024 19:03

She's not to blame. He is. Your behaviour towards her is out of order and probably why she's trying to minimise his behaviour. If she feels unable to tell him to back off, you need to be supporting her not making things worse. Step up and help her.

LeoTheLeopard · 16/03/2024 19:03

DadSpeaking · 16/03/2024 19:00

I am not screaming at her. Just asking her but as I feel the responses are less reassuring but actually causing more problems. If she just said he was being a perv we could have just moved on. But the less honest she seems to be the more I am becoming sensitive as to why she isn't being open about it.

She didn't really discourage anything at all but then I think she is a very nice person and less street wise with men.

Really, is it possible that she is de-escalating because she knows you’ll go off on one? Nit that you think you’re angry, but whether she knows that you would be angry and therefore is trying to minimize.

Mischance · 16/03/2024 19:04

DO NOT go away with them. This man's behaviour makes you both uncomfortable and is driving a wedge between you both - I am sure he would love to know that.

Maybe you need to broach this in a different way, telling your wife how much she means to you and it pains you to see her being put in an uncomfortable position.

Everyone, male and female, gets flattered by attention, even if they have not invited it. You need to make sure she knows how much you care for her, and show it in a less breast-beating fashion.

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 16/03/2024 19:04

@DadSpeaking sorry but if i was your wife then I would not want to be going anywhere with them!

PoulezVous · 16/03/2024 19:06

Well, obviously, you don't go away with them at Easter. I'm not as forgiving towards your wife as other posters. I've been flirted with by husbands of friends and I've been totally honest with my DH and asked him to make sure I'm not left alone with them or put in an awkward situation. Your wife has minimised and denied, probably to keep the peace for your friendship, but it's having a damaging effect on your relationship. Sorry but this friendship is over.

Garlicking · 16/03/2024 19:07

Whoa, what a creep! I'm surprised your wife sticks up for him. I'm not surprised she's pissed off at your attitude with her, though. You say you don't blame her, but you are acting like you do!

I think this holiday's going to be awful for you unless something changes. When you're both calmer, could you discuss the creep's obviously escalating behaviour again? You really need to work as one to shut him down. By giggling at his dodgy remarks, squeezing into him and being jolly with his sexual remarks, she may well feel she's trying not to "cause trouble" but twats like him always take it as encouragement.

You'll improve your mutual relationship with him by both giving him stony faces, telling him openly not to be inappropriate, and coolly warning him he's asking for trouble if he carries on.

I'm not sure about you punching him in the face, but your wife wouldn't be out of order to slap him hard!

DadSpeaking · 16/03/2024 19:09

Pinkbonbon · 16/03/2024 18:58

Tbh you've escalated this. You've made your wife to blame for a man's behaviour. Or at least that's how she feels. You probably owe her an appology.

Now, if she has form for cheating or, you have any reason to believe shes cheated with this guy I could understand...

But as is, you just seem to be letting your own insecurity fuck you up and be taking that out on her.

Why didn't you just call out the inappropriate behaviour? It takes nothing to say 'who do you think you're talking to?' 'I beg your pardon', 'keep your hands to yourself you creepy bugger', 'well THAT was inappropriate' etc...

You were too much of a wuss.
And now you're taking that out on your wife.

And do you know what your instinct is likely about by the way? He's been more than inappropriate with her at a time you didnt know about and she doesn't want to cause a fuss. So shes playing his behaviour down. Maybe she's a wimp too.

But then, women are constantly told they are to blame for men's behaviour. Now her partner is throwing a strop like a child with her because of another man's actions. What a surprise.

I think I have got this wrong. I have apologized to my wife that I let my emotions get the better ofme. I would have told him or thumped him if it wasnt his fiancees fathers wake at there house...

I have told her she is completely blameless in the situation but I am just trying to get across he is a perv and getting a kick and not just banter as she thinks.

As to what he said. He whispered something in her ear, she was initially shocked then Told him "you wish"

If I had to guess he said something like he would sleep with her.

OP posts:
Sashya · 16/03/2024 19:09

I guess to me the question is - do YOU think you are punching? Because your behaviour seems to be all due to your own insecurity.
Men do what you are doing out of weakness - lash out and try to control/put down women as a way of trying to feel in control.

During the wake - if this guy behaviour bothered you, you could have very easily come over to your W and lead her away - to fetch a drink, etc. Or simply put your arm around her and talk to her. The man in question would have had a hard time to continue his inappropriate behaviour.
But instead of dealing with him man/man - you take your insecurities on your W, who has done nothing wrong.
Now - it's suspicions, accusations of lying and analysis of her facial expressions.
And you escalate and won't let go...
Frankly - a totally ridiculous behaviour on your end.

CeeceeBloomingdale · 16/03/2024 19:13

Either you trust your wife or you don't. Your behaviour is saying you don't. Don't punish her for someone else's behaviour, stop picking over what was said, you've got the gist and your behaviour is making it seem like she's done something wrong by going on and on. Stop asking her to relive the conversation but make it clear you have a problem with the friends behaviour and you do not wish to socialise with him further. Display trust, otherwise you will drive her away.

Garlicking · 16/03/2024 19:15

Btw, "you wish" is the least confrontational response but can be read as a "maybe". Better options are "Not if you were the last man on Earth" or "Don't be such a slimy pervert". Said very clearly and somewhat loudly!

Nothing bad will happen, and this is when you should definitely move to her side and guide her away.

YourSnugHazelTraybake · 16/03/2024 19:32

Sorry op but I think she's lying to you. I think she knows exactly what he said at the wake and I think she's enjoying the attention. It's possible there may be something more going on. He was definitely acting inappropriately and instead of being uncomfortable with it she seems to have encouraged it. Why the hell would she want to go on holiday with him when she knows you're uncomfortable with the attention he's showing her.

Queenofcarrotflour · 16/03/2024 19:33

I think the man was totally inappropriate. But I also don't think it's great that your wife seems oblivious to his inappropriate behaviour. It might be that she is trying to see the best in him and just brush it off as the thought of him being a perv is uncomfortable.

But because of this whole dynamic I would definitely not enjoy going on holiday with them - sounds like he will just keep pushing boundaries and the whole thing could turn quite unpleasant.

DadSpeaking · 16/03/2024 19:38

Garlicking · 16/03/2024 19:15

Btw, "you wish" is the least confrontational response but can be read as a "maybe". Better options are "Not if you were the last man on Earth" or "Don't be such a slimy pervert". Said very clearly and somewhat loudly!

Nothing bad will happen, and this is when you should definitely move to her side and guide her away.

I don't blame my wife and totally trust her. But she is a good looking lady and isn't maybe strong enough with her boundaries. Not because she likes the attention but more because she is so good natured maybe even a little naive.

I am saying to her as an example. If I was in a position squashed against a lady, I would never say I can feel all your bumps and love it. It's totally unacceptable in my view especially a lady in a vulnerable position like that. He is really not a nice guy. But she insists it's just banter.

I can't seem to win. If I smack him I am in the wrong because I am overreacting as she says to banter. But I don't feel its appropriate behavior to just do nothing. Can't win.

OP posts:
Garlicking · 16/03/2024 19:53

But you can talk it through with her, and support her in maintaining boundaries.

You could even have a secret code for when she needs help shutting him down!

In the car, she could have said "Don't be such a creep!" If she really is THAT timid, she could give you the code so you can say "What the hell d'you think you're doing, Geoff? Apologise to my wife."

I think you'll both get better at this with a small amount of practice. It's basic assertiveness - he (or anybody) has NO right to be handsy, suggestive or intrusive with you. It's correct to assert your boundaries.

PoochiesPinkEars · 16/03/2024 20:04

Nrtft...

I think your instincts are spot on. He's crossing boundaries and making things awkward using 'humour' as a cloak to do it in plain sight.
Hard for you or your wife to challenge him when he has plausible deniability.

In your wife's position, I'd agree with you and be keeping him at arms length and making a point of putting him in his place. But though I'm nice I don't take crap from drunk sex pests. Maybe she doesn't have that confidence/skill.

There are a few possible things going on here...

She feels validating your pov:
. Could cause massive ripples in the group, lots of social awkwardness and implications for your social life.
. Might confirm he's no friend to you, and she's worried you might get into an argument with him, which could end badly in many possible ways
. Could cause you to blame her, resulting in accusations of encouraging him in some way
. Could mean that she has to admit there is a problem with his behaviour which would mean she's got to do something about it, but she doesn't feel she can. She isn't at all comfortable with confrontation and would rather pretend it's not happening and wait for him to go away, as he always does, because at some point the evening has to end anyway, and she'd rather just side step the whole issue.

In your shoes, you will likely bring this to a constructive resolution if you see that all of these are valid concerns.

She may feel caught in an impossible position between him and you. He's foisting unwanted attention on her and maybe she feels, when you bring it up that you expect her to overtly reject him when she's just getting on with quietly doing a good job of letting it slide off her without causing social ripples...
Maybe she feels her strategy is the least worst response and she finds it all exceptionally awkward and would rather be left to get on with this approach.

You feel frustrated and upset because she denying what you can see with your own eyes.
This is understandable because it's a very avoidant response to your perfectly fair upset

However, trying to drag an admission he's a complete nuisance out of her is a fools game and will only escalate things as it will make her feel backed into a corner.

If you de-escalate you are more likely to be able to discuss things nicely. So reassurance is your friend here.

You need to say things like
. You're the last person I want to be upset with, I don't want to upset you either, can we stay again.
. Let's not shout, we are a team and I think we've just both found this conversation hard, it's awkward and maybe I've not handled it well, but I'm on your side.
.I know you've said you don't think he's doing anything, maybe that's because you're worried about how I'll react. I won't blame you, this isn't on you.
.I think this guys behaviour is unfair on you, he's being inappropriate and I don't think that's what you need to deal with, his drunkenness makes it particularly difficult for you to have an easy way to respond.
.He's disrespectful to our marriage and birth of us, and I think we could support each other in this situation.
. I will listen to you, how could I be helping when he does this in a way that, for you, wouldn't make it worse or embarrass you... Part of the reason I want to talk about this is because I find it very awkward and embarrassing, so I understand those feelings.
. Please understand I don't want this to divide us. I love you but I don't think we should ignore this, it's hurtful to me and uncomfortable for you, that's why I'm trying to talk to you, and there are simple things we can do to limit the effect he has.
. His pattern is predictable so we could come up with a joint plan. It doesn't need to involve confrontation. We could just offer a united front and quietly make some distance when he's in that mode....

Stuff like that.
Constructive
Supportive
Empathetic
Clear
Reassuring

.

MoonWoman69 · 16/03/2024 20:05

I understand where you're coming from, but it sounds like your wife either doesn't know how to handle this situation or she doesn't want to rock the boat, as you are all friends.
Is she a normally confident person or not?
It's a tricky one, but I would make sure that I didn't leave her alone in his vicinity, that is if you do choose to go away. Some men can be so overbearing, that it's awkward to deal with them, for fear of embarrassment or as I say, upsetting the apple cart, when you're part of a group. As she hasn't shut him down from the start of his behaviour towards her, it will be harder for her to challenge him, so she is now passing it off as banter to keep the peace.
I really do feel for you. Would you feel comfortable having a word with him and telling him to back off?

TwylaSands · 16/03/2024 20:12

I cannot quite believe you didnt say something in the car. Why were you a bystander to your own wife being sexually harassed by some wanker? You criticised your wife’s boundaries but you watched and allowed the situation to escalate. Why not tell him to stop? Why not call out every single slimey thing he says?

Dint watch men harass women the. Argue with the woman over having to manage a creep of a man in a safe way.

Tooshytoshine · 16/03/2024 20:16

Not your wife's fault, this guy is a habitual boundary pusher. Letching onto a married woman at his fiances father's wake is hardly prince charming status.

You are annoyed with yourself not her - he is pushing your buttons and as you said asserting dominance.

Redirect the conversation to his fiance, tell him his comments are inappropriate and objectifying to your wife and engage in banter if you want to - he says, you are punching above your weight, you say how satisfied your wife is.

It's shithousery. He is an insecure bellend, who is threatened by you. Just know you are better than him and let it wash over you. At the moment he is under your skin, make him seem ridiculous as he is...

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