Wife says I have a problem. More arguments

[DadSpeaking]

We have some friends that we regularly meet up with 6/7 times per year. His wife is lovely and her husband is too..except when he has had a lot to drink. My wife says he just very friendly and what he does is just banter and I over react. But I feel he oversteps the mark and he makes me feel uncomfortable each time. But it seems now to be getting a little worse each time.

This week we attended a funeral and went to the wake where there some.drinking after..I was there with my wife and not drinking. His fiancee was very busy with the people so we were left more with him chatting. He was his usually multiple huggy self but nothing I was concerned with at that point. He always focuses his chat towards my wife rather than engage both as a couple.

I left to get the car and move onto the wake house. His fiancee went in another car and he came out with my wife and 3 other from the wake going back. We didn't really know these other so realtive strangers. He always seems to manage to be in a position where he is near my wife but this could be me of course. There was too many for the run, 5 but instead of my wife going in the front of her own car. He manoeverd his brother in law to the front(who was going to walk the short journey) and sat in the back saying to my wife she could sit on his knee. She didn't but thankfully but squeezing in on the end of the seat but they were all squashed together her sort of tilting into him sort of side on.

As we drove on he announced to me and the 3 strangers. That he could feel all my wife's bumps and he was really enjoying it. I was dumbstruck and the joke as my wife calls it was met with complete silence In the car.

We went into the house and I didn't want to say anything or cause a fuss at wake house. We stayed for maybe another hour. Where he kept coming up putting his arm around my wife and hugging etc saying how lovely she was. His fiancee was off again so not around as normal (to keep him in check). He did this again only this time telling me I was punching above my weight. Done in a jokey way but I felt less jokey and more of a dominance show. He the. Turned around to fa e her front showing his back to me and was almost in a kissing position where he proceeded to whisper into her ear. I thought this all very strange but could not cause a fuss at such a sensitive place.

He did this a final time again up close and personal. I don't know what he said in her ear..but my wife was slightly taken a back. Before saying "you wish." We announced we were leaving to collect our kids.

I was quiet on the way back and as this normally would result in argument I said nothing. But as time passed I began to get more upset l over..so I raised it with her and said I wasn't happy about all that gone on with him and asked what he whispered to her. She said that he had just whispered a joke that she couldn't remember now. It was nothing hardly worth remembering. It made no sense to me that a. She couldn't remember and it could have been a few words which would have been difficult as a joke. Maybe insulting but that would invoke the surprised and 'you wish" response.

I really wasn't bothered and held my wife at no fault at all, I just felt he was taking advantage of my wife's good nature and wanted to know what was said. By the reaction and words I was already guessing exactly what he said..If she just told me we could have just moved on..

I now started to get concerned and pressed more, I felt her diversion, gulps and lack of eye contact were seemingly untruthful. I may went to far and said I felt she was lying to me that she did know because she could recall everything from the evening except this specific bit. She just kept brushing off as a joke she couldn't remember or why she had said that to him.

Cut to now. We are really arguing, she is telling me I am totally blowing this out of proportion it was all just banter and screaming at me to drop it. Now she denies even saying you wish and being shocked at all, despite admitting prior she had said it to the joke he had whispered.

This has gone from her being totally not to blame for anything to now having major concerns by me why she may or may not be lying to me.

She is telling me just drop it. But there is this nagging instinct as I had witnessed first hand it all was not right.

We are going away with them in Easter and I don't want to go..she is now saying I am being ridiculous. Am I..I am at a loss what to do!! I feel I can't ask her anymore but I feel I need to get to the truth.

Help

Ugh, he sounds one of those insufferable overbearing arseholes.
I totally get it OP and understand the type of person you're describing. Can't stand pricks like that.

Sadly women have been socialised to dance around male egos and minimise to keep the peace, consciously or unconsciously. Going as far as feeling somewhat complicit in cases of unwanted attention. That's probably why she's defensive without you ever making her feel that way. It could be useful to keep this in mind when speaking to her. My instinct is that she's not being untruthful. But she's thinking of this, she's thinking of her friend, the fiance. She is also thinking about you getting wound up and ending up making a scene. Because right now the only one who overstepped was the guy but the one getting questioned is your wife.
There's no need to feel bad but I would drop it for now. You tell her exactly what I just said. That you're sorry that even though it was someone else over-stepping you didn't intend for her to feel questioned. That you understand the male psyche and you suspect that that's exactly what someone with this few boundaries would have liked. You two falling out. And that you're not going to allow that. But the way to stop it for the both of you could be to present more of a united front. My advice in the past was.. bring partner's name into the conversation when this happens. As often as necessary. Or 'How is Anna these days (let's say that's the finance's name)? I think she was looking for you'.
Failing that, and with humour: 'Oi, dickhead, you're wasting your time'.

Just remember, anything can catch you out when it happens the first time. Maybe even the second time. This goes for both you and your wife.

Otherwise just ignore. It's clearly upset you but at the end of the day you have your own relationship to nurture and pour your energy into not worry about what some sad prick thinks. Your wife wants to drop it and in your head you should, too.

back off. That’s absolutely unacceptable language. If this was a woman in the same situation you would absolutely not be saying this. Unacceptable sexism.

OP this man sounds like a dick. I think your wife might be concerned about you kicking off about it, might be complicit and enjoying it, or might be struggling in an awkward situation. Either way you need a calm conversation with her to hear how she feels about it without the fear of you reacting. You need a plan to deal with it that you both agree to.

Really tricky situation and a wake isn’t the place to kick off about it. You did the right thing. Your wife wasn’t giving you the opportunity to support her. She could have moved to stay with you.

There is no way I’d want to go on holiday with this knob in your situation.

I guess this might be a time to reflect on your communication and see if there is a pattern of you coming at things in an over emotional way that might make her reluctant to engage in a conversation. But his behaviour is unacceptable and your wife should really have been more open and honest if you are in a relationship where she feels safe to be.

If that was true then she would tell her husband she wasn't happy about it, that it made her uncomfortable and didn't want to keep socialising with someone who makes her feel that way. But she's not. She is saying he is overreacting and the guys done nothing wrong

@NoIamcactusius

Would, “be a decent husband and don’t let your wife be sexually harassed in front of you.” Be better??

Why on earth could he not take charge of the situation and stop it?

Totally unacceptable, as is berating her and arguing with her now.

When I was younger, I used to appease male attention at any cost, having been conditioned that it was partly or wholly my fault. Now a lot longer in the tooth, I know better but don’t get any attention… I think you should intervene at the time rather than launching an inquisition with her after the event.

Exactly.

Your wife shouldn’t be defending him. She shouldn’t even want to go away with this weirdo

I also wondered the same thing

If your wife doesn’t immediately agree to cancelling all future gatherings with them, it’s hard to imagine on what basis she wants to see that predator again, then I think you may have a bigger problem than you think you do op…

Yes it would be better. Fine to call out behaviour. Fine to give advice. ‘Be a man’ and ‘find your balls’ is completely unacceptable. It also feeds into an idea that it’s manly to be assertive - which is why women are often vilified for, or feel afraid to, assert themselves. That kind of language perpetuates gender based stereotypes.

The OP is a human being and was in a very tricky social situation. If he had have had a go at the sleaze bag he’d probably be accused of being all macho and charging in on his white horse. He was in a lose lose situation and his wife’s minimisation of it makes it even harder to intervene.

I am not sure I would want my DH ‘saving me’. I’m quite capable of putting sleaze bags like him in their place.

At a wake?

@NoIamcactusius

Could we dispense with all the rhetoric regards gender based stereotypes and female empowerment for a moment.

The fact is the OP’s wife was not dealing with the situation. OP has watched her be sexually harassed on several occasions and has done nothing to help. And now he is blaming her and giving her grief.

It is really out of line and he needs to be called out.

If my language was offensive, it was only as I was annoyed on his wife’s behalf. He really should be standing by her.

The fact is the OP’s wife was not dealing with the situation

She told the man 'you wish', and he made no progress in his exploits. How is that not a situation dealt with?

Regardless of what his wife wants? He needs to have a calm adult to adult conversation to agree a plan. Not assume she needs rescuing. And ‘find your balls’ and ‘be a man’ is not acceptable language.

'When he is stood there with his arm around her running me down in front of her. She could have easily broken away from him, hugged me and said something reassuring. Both removing herself from creepy and sending a message without any scene. But I was just left to stand there while creepy is hugging my wife while i take his put downs. Deep down I'm really hurt that chose to laugh along instead of backing me.'

This is awful op. You need to stop socialising with them and your wife needs to know it isn't banter and you are not overacting.

The pair of them are taking you for a fool.

I would ignore your dw at a future event and fawn over another female see how much she likes it. I would bet you a tenner she wouldn't.

@NoIamcactusius

So we can get distracted on your language fixation. Or address the issues OP has.

I don’t think any woman would want to be so degraded.

I think OP needs to have a rational conversation with her and stop being angry with her on top of letting her down so badly.

@Sparklecats

How would you describe OP's responsibility to his partner, in this situation? It seems like you're saying that a woman's male partner 'should' protect her from the advances of other men. Is that right, or have I misunderstood?

There’s nothing to suggest that the posters wife was pissed off with this man’s harassment, pervy comments or anything else. In fact, when the op expressed his discomfort she blatantly defended him and called it banter.

Most women have dealt with these creeps for years, and in a public place with your husband it is really not hard to subtly shut this behaviour down.

I wouldn’t have further contact with this couple. And your wife is not much of a friend to the wife.

@Watchkeys

I would absolutely expect my husband to step in and have a word or at least banter back as a warning to get him to back off.

If a man behaves like this he is not going to listen to the woman, being so disrespectful of her in the first place.

@Watchkeys

Btw it’s not advances…. It is repeated inappropriate and degrading behaviour.

Totally different to say a man asking politely in a bar if she wants a drink.

The visual of him pressed up against her in the car and what he said is disgusting.

If you read my posts I have addressed the issues and have also suggested a calm, adult to adult conversation in separate posts directed to the OP. I have also suggested that the OP might want to reflect on the communication in the relationship and given three possible reasons for his wife’s behaviour. I’ve stated clearly that I agree that the sleazebags behaviour wasn’t acceptable and that the OP was in a difficult position with it being a wake.

So, as you can see, I haven’t been fixated on language at the expense of the OPs dilemma.

What I will do though is call out unkind behaviour when I see it. ‘Find your balls’ and ‘Be a man’ are neither kind nor helpful and as a woman I am sick of the idea that it’s only men that are allowed to act assertively. As a mother of a boy, I don’t want him to grow up thinking that being a man means you have to act in certain ways. Language matters.

We are all people and any of us, male or female, would struggle to know the right thing to do in those circumstances - it’s at a wake, does the woman want the attention, will she be offended by us steaming in to ‘save her’?

It’s nuanced and not black and white.

If the sexes were reversed everyone would be adamant he was having an affair and that his behaviour was 'abusive' etc. I don't think you are wrong to be upset and whilst your wife isn't to blame she isn't helping if she won't be honest with you about what was said. I don't think you are being unfair but you can't force her to tell you so maybe you cut this guy out of your lives and move on... or speak to him directly and tell him you don't appreciate him flirting with your woman and it needs to stop if you want to remain friends.

I don't think your wife is blameless here as others have said. The fact she tolerates this creeps advances and is happy to let this so called friend run the OP down whilst at his fiancées relatives wake says to me she enjoys the attention. If she is so weak that she cannot enforce boundaries then at least she should have acknowledged this to you. It doesn't sound like banter to me. I would avoid this man in the future and if your wife continues to encourage him despite the fact she knows it makes you uncomfortable then she isn't nice either and doesn't care about your feelings.

Who knew the female friend first ?
You or your wife.

People are falling over themselves to slot the wife into a victim role because we’ve all had these creepy encounters and people are projecting their own feelings onto the situation imaging that the wife has felt harassed, creeped on and grossed out like they did.

Its a rare women who will defend these creeps and still want to go away with them. Nobody wants some creepy bastard whispering smut into their ear. At a funeral of all places. Most women would end the friendship at this point. Not argue and defend him.

The difference between being grossed out or being flattered comes down to how attractive the man is. Your wife does not find him a creepy bastard, that’s for certain.