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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Wife says I have a problem. More arguments

160 replies

DadSpeaking · 16/03/2024 18:42

We have some friends that we regularly meet up with 6/7 times per year. His wife is lovely and her husband is too..except when he has had a lot to drink. My wife says he just very friendly and what he does is just banter and I over react. But I feel he oversteps the mark and he makes me feel uncomfortable each time. But it seems now to be getting a little worse each time.

This week we attended a funeral and went to the wake where there some.drinking after..I was there with my wife and not drinking. His fiancee was very busy with the people so we were left more with him chatting. He was his usually multiple huggy self but nothing I was concerned with at that point. He always focuses his chat towards my wife rather than engage both as a couple.

I left to get the car and move onto the wake house. His fiancee went in another car and he came out with my wife and 3 other from the wake going back. We didn't really know these other so realtive strangers. He always seems to manage to be in a position where he is near my wife but this could be me of course. There was too many for the run, 5 but instead of my wife going in the front of her own car. He manoeverd his brother in law to the front(who was going to walk the short journey) and sat in the back saying to my wife she could sit on his knee. She didn't but thankfully but squeezing in on the end of the seat but they were all squashed together her sort of tilting into him sort of side on.

As we drove on he announced to me and the 3 strangers. That he could feel all my wife's bumps and he was really enjoying it. I was dumbstruck and the joke as my wife calls it was met with complete silence In the car.

We went into the house and I didn't want to say anything or cause a fuss at wake house. We stayed for maybe another hour. Where he kept coming up putting his arm around my wife and hugging etc saying how lovely she was. His fiancee was off again so not around as normal (to keep him in check). He did this again only this time telling me I was punching above my weight. Done in a jokey way but I felt less jokey and more of a dominance show. He the. Turned around to fa e her front showing his back to me and was almost in a kissing position where he proceeded to whisper into her ear. I thought this all very strange but could not cause a fuss at such a sensitive place.

He did this a final time again up close and personal. I don't know what he said in her ear..but my wife was slightly taken a back. Before saying "you wish." We announced we were leaving to collect our kids.

I was quiet on the way back and as this normally would result in argument I said nothing. But as time passed I began to get more upset l over..so I raised it with her and said I wasn't happy about all that gone on with him and asked what he whispered to her. She said that he had just whispered a joke that she couldn't remember now. It was nothing hardly worth remembering. It made no sense to me that a. She couldn't remember and it could have been a few words which would have been difficult as a joke. Maybe insulting but that would invoke the surprised and 'you wish" response.

I really wasn't bothered and held my wife at no fault at all, I just felt he was taking advantage of my wife's good nature and wanted to know what was said. By the reaction and words I was already guessing exactly what he said..If she just told me we could have just moved on..

I now started to get concerned and pressed more, I felt her diversion, gulps and lack of eye contact were seemingly untruthful. I may went to far and said I felt she was lying to me that she did know because she could recall everything from the evening except this specific bit. She just kept brushing off as a joke she couldn't remember or why she had said that to him.

Cut to now. We are really arguing, she is telling me I am totally blowing this out of proportion it was all just banter and screaming at me to drop it. Now she denies even saying you wish and being shocked at all, despite admitting prior she had said it to the joke he had whispered.

This has gone from her being totally not to blame for anything to now having major concerns by me why she may or may not be lying to me.

She is telling me just drop it. But there is this nagging instinct as I had witnessed first hand it all was not right.

We are going away with them in Easter and I don't want to go..she is now saying I am being ridiculous. Am I..I am at a loss what to do!! I feel I can't ask her anymore but I feel I need to get to the truth.

Help

OP posts:
2Hot2Handle · 16/03/2024 21:48

DadSpeaking · 16/03/2024 21:08

I think that his behavior is not appropriate but she doesn't think it is. That it's just banter.

I want to address it but she thinks I'm blowing it out of proportion. Encouraging the holiday even to happen

Honestly, I don’t think you are overreacting. There was another recent post on Mumsnet about a woman on a trip with her DP, who refused to acknowledge his friend’s bad behaviour (trying to get her to sit on his lap in a hot tub, inappropriate comments about her body). This “friend” is overtly doing things in front of you, knowing he can get away with it.

Either your wife is okay with his behaviour, or she’s not, but she doesn’t want you to publicly react. If she’s intelligent, she must be able to see that this man’s behaviour isn’t appropriate, whether or not she’s comfortable handling it. It’s like she’s gaslighting you into believing you’re not seeing what you are with your own eyes. Why? Perhaps because she’s worried about how you would handle the situation, or because she’d rather put up with this man’s behaviour than have a falling out.

My advice would be to sit her down, calmly and make sure she understands that you don’t think any of this is her fault, but that you’d like to understand if she thinks this man’s behaviour is okay, or not. Ask if she feels uncomfortable, but is worried how you’d react. Explain that you’re worried that his behaviour is subtle enough that you don’t feel you can call him out on it, but overt enough that it feels like he’s being a sex pest, which needs addressing, for her safety and mental wellbeing, at the very least. If he’s doing this in public, what might he think he can get away with, if she finds herself alone with him? See what her reaction is and go from there.

Opentooffers · 16/03/2024 21:56

Sorry but I'm not buying that your wife is totally innocent in this. Not only is she not doing anything to dissuade him - which maybe undstandable if she is a shinking violet - she is actively making allowances for him and passing inappropriate behaviour off as banter.
Would there be any argument if she agreed that his comment in the car was inappropriate? It's not her fault he behaves the way he does, but she has options of how to deal with it and is chosing to do nothing and defend him.

Teacup19 · 16/03/2024 22:00

If my husband was okay with another woman constantly flirting with him, I'd be annoyed with him for not shutting it down. If him shutting her down didn't work, I'd expect him to agree not to socialise with her again.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 16/03/2024 22:18

If she just said he was being a perv we could have just moved on. But the less honest she seems to be the more I am becoming sensitive as to why she isn't being open about it.

You wouldn't have just moved on though, would you? You'd have got yourself all worked up over it and probably wanted to go and have it out with him. Your wife knows this, which is why she's trying to do a damage limitation exercise to prevent an escalation. She probably finds him annoying but doesn't see him as a real threat, just a bit of a flirty knob when he's drunk.

You don't like him and you don't trust him around your wife, that much is clear. I don't think you should be going on holiday with them. Especially not with the children around. It could get nasty, or at least very awkward.

Cancel the trip and just make yourselves less and less available socially. Your wife can see his wife alone, if they are good friends.

NoPrivateSpy · 16/03/2024 22:18

Have I read this correctly? Your female friend's father had died and during his wake, her fiancée was flirting with your wife? And your wife thinks that's ok? And no one was worried about the fact he wasn't supporting his fiancée?

Or have I misunderstood?

SD1978 · 16/03/2024 22:42

You're blaming her, for his behaviour, and shouting at her, causing an argument. If you don't like him, stop engaging with them socially. Blaming your wife is an arsehole move

RedHelenB · 16/03/2024 22:43

Maybe it doesn't bother her the way it bothers you. Let it go, she obviously wants to be friends with this couple.

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 16/03/2024 22:54

Are you saying your car is too small for 3 adults in the back ? Were they all able to wear seat belts ?
If not I would have refused to drive.

Mummame222 · 16/03/2024 22:57

Pashazade · 16/03/2024 18:55

Oh and either you trust her or you don't but right now she feels like you won't believe a word she says. I would drop it.

But she’s lying? She obviously knows what the man whispered.

ScierraDoll · 16/03/2024 23:05

Grow a pair and take charge of this.
He's a twat and you need to have it out with him not your wife

Pashazade · 16/03/2024 23:07

Yes but she's been made to feel that whatever she says if it's not as "inappropriate" as the OP feels it should be then he won't believe her. She seemed to want to brush it under the carpet because she knew it would cause a ruckus. OP refused and she is stuck feeling that to tell the truth will inflame matters even more and that she could still be accused of lying.

Snugglemonkey · 16/03/2024 23:23

DadSpeaking · 16/03/2024 19:00

I am not screaming at her. Just asking her but as I feel the responses are less reassuring but actually causing more problems. If she just said he was being a perv we could have just moved on. But the less honest she seems to be the more I am becoming sensitive as to why she isn't being open about it.

She didn't really discourage anything at all but then I think she is a very nice person and less street wise with men.

She said "you wish". She was rejecting. She did not encourage. She is entitled to privacy. You are not entitled to know what transpired between them.

You know she did nothing wrong. Stop haranguing her!!!

Whataretalkingabout · 16/03/2024 23:25

Good God, let it go. You have blown this completely out of proportion. Everyone has been drinking after an emotional event. Some grown ups flirt . It is no big deal.
From your wife's reaction, it looks like you have form for getting upset over nothing OP? You are highly insecure, jealous and distrust your wife. Pretty pathetic. Grow up.

Watchkeys · 16/03/2024 23:28

ScierraDoll · 16/03/2024 23:05

Grow a pair and take charge of this.
He's a twat and you need to have it out with him not your wife

So his wife hasn't managed the bloke on his own by saying no and her word being respected?

Why does OP need to step in? His wife hasn't done anything wrong, and the bloke has been told 'You wish', and got no further. What problem would 'growing a pair' solve?

Roman4864 · 16/03/2024 23:46

How does the creepy guys wife react to all of this. Surely she notices?
why on earth would your wife want to still holiday with them? If you are uncomfortable with that you should not go and explain to both the creepy guy and his wife why.

Anotherparkingthread · 17/03/2024 00:00

You're seriously saying you were too spineless to approach the man yourself so you're now taking our your insecurities out on your poor wife who is a victim of this sex pest's advances, when it is you who should have stepped in and called him out for his behaviour. Pathetic.

Grow a spine. Take your issue up with him, she has done nothing wrong except tolerate the pair of you.

WallaceinAnderland · 17/03/2024 00:09

Stop socialising with the man. He is not your friend.

Re the car thing, you were the driver, you should have stopped the car and kicked the man out of it.

DadSpeaking · 17/03/2024 05:37

Garlicking · 16/03/2024 21:28

I'm sympathetic to OP. It's clear his wife doesn't want Creepy to stop it.

He's asking her not to accept Creepy's intrusions; she's saying she doesn't mind them. That leaves OP with two options: step in, or stand there like a lemon while some other geezer slobbers over his wife.

Reading this has helped me so much thank you. This is the trap I feel I'm in.

When he is stood there with his arm around her running me down in front of her. She could have easily broken away from him, hugged me and said something reassuring. Both removing herself from creepy and sending a message without any scene. But I was just left to stand there while creepy is hugging my wife while i take his put downs. Deep down I'm really hurt that chose to laugh along instead of backing me.

I feel I can't act (because I'm overreacting in her view) but at the same time I feel what he is doing isnt right so I have to watch on. Trust me if she ever said or even looked across for help she would immediately get it.

But I'm the bad guy here.

OP posts:
DadSpeaking · 17/03/2024 05:45

Anotherparkingthread · 17/03/2024 00:00

You're seriously saying you were too spineless to approach the man yourself so you're now taking our your insecurities out on your poor wife who is a victim of this sex pest's advances, when it is you who should have stepped in and called him out for his behaviour. Pathetic.

Grow a spine. Take your issue up with him, she has done nothing wrong except tolerate the pair of you.

He is a so called friend. His fiancee is absolutely one of our greatest friends. Acting against him also affects her and remembering this is going on at her family wake. This isn't some stranger in a pub you just spine up without any consequences and boot. DW doesn't want that so playing his part down to me overreacting.

OP posts:
DadSpeaking · 17/03/2024 05:56

Watchkeys · 16/03/2024 21:25

I can't seem to win. If I smack him I am in the wrong because I am overreacting as she says to banter. But I don't feel its appropriate behavior to just do nothing. Can't win

Can you think of any other options? There are many...

You are absolutely right...I think I wrote this in the context of the replies. There are other options like pulling away from them socially in future . Without causing a major argument among friends.

OP posts:
Twobigbabies · 17/03/2024 06:29

I'm finding it really strange that your wife is so desperate to go on holiday with this pervy creep! Is it because you'll lose the money if you don't go? Where are you going? Is it just the two couples? I'm in the camp that she's enjoying the attention here and I understand why you feel hurt. If my friend's husband whispered something pervy to me I would do everything to avoid seeing him ever again and try to see the friend alone in future. I do get why she doesn't want to tell you what he said but not why she'd want to go on holiday with them. If she really is as naive as you say and you can't get out of the holiday then you're going to need to watch him like a hawk and insert yourself very obviously everytime he's anywhere near her. When you get home tell her you're sorry but you don't like him and you want to distance yourself from them in future. If she chooses them over you then you've got real problems and need to head to marriage therapy. Good luck!

DadSpeaking · 17/03/2024 06:30

2Hot2Handle · 16/03/2024 21:48

Honestly, I don’t think you are overreacting. There was another recent post on Mumsnet about a woman on a trip with her DP, who refused to acknowledge his friend’s bad behaviour (trying to get her to sit on his lap in a hot tub, inappropriate comments about her body). This “friend” is overtly doing things in front of you, knowing he can get away with it.

Either your wife is okay with his behaviour, or she’s not, but she doesn’t want you to publicly react. If she’s intelligent, she must be able to see that this man’s behaviour isn’t appropriate, whether or not she’s comfortable handling it. It’s like she’s gaslighting you into believing you’re not seeing what you are with your own eyes. Why? Perhaps because she’s worried about how you would handle the situation, or because she’d rather put up with this man’s behaviour than have a falling out.

My advice would be to sit her down, calmly and make sure she understands that you don’t think any of this is her fault, but that you’d like to understand if she thinks this man’s behaviour is okay, or not. Ask if she feels uncomfortable, but is worried how you’d react. Explain that you’re worried that his behaviour is subtle enough that you don’t feel you can call him out on it, but overt enough that it feels like he’s being a sex pest, which needs addressing, for her safety and mental wellbeing, at the very least. If he’s doing this in public, what might he think he can get away with, if she finds herself alone with him? See what her reaction is and go from there.

I think this summarises the whole situation absolutely perfectly. So so helpful I can't thank you enough. I have been wrestling against my gut instincts and moral compass shouting at me this doesn't sit right. Everything... makes more sense to me now and I can see a way forward 👏👏👏👏

OP posts:
DadSpeaking · 17/03/2024 06:42

NoPrivateSpy · 16/03/2024 22:18

Have I read this correctly? Your female friend's father had died and during his wake, her fiancée was flirting with your wife? And your wife thinks that's ok? And no one was worried about the fact he wasn't supporting his fiancée?

Or have I misunderstood?

Sadly spot on. I raised this exact point with my wife to try and help her see from my perspective he is not a nice person as she thinks he is and keeps defending.

OP posts:
sashh · 17/03/2024 06:52

DadSpeaking · 16/03/2024 19:00

I am not screaming at her. Just asking her but as I feel the responses are less reassuring but actually causing more problems. If she just said he was being a perv we could have just moved on. But the less honest she seems to be the more I am becoming sensitive as to why she isn't being open about it.

She didn't really discourage anything at all but then I think she is a very nice person and less street wise with men.

We, as women, are taught to appease men from the day we are born. She is the victim here.

If you don't like this perv's behaviour why do you tolerate it?

That's why she got in the back of the car, I'd guess she is also the smallest of the group so it makes sense for her to be in the back.

Stop blaming her something she had no control over.

What is it about men that they tolerate other men's creepy behaviour? If it happens call it out.

TwylaSands · 17/03/2024 07:27

DadSpeaking · 17/03/2024 05:45

He is a so called friend. His fiancee is absolutely one of our greatest friends. Acting against him also affects her and remembering this is going on at her family wake. This isn't some stranger in a pub you just spine up without any consequences and boot. DW doesn't want that so playing his part down to me overreacting.

Then speak to his fiancee too. Tell her his behaviour is unacceptable. Obviously nit for a while.

but it os absolutely crucial that you call out all inappropriate behaviour to him. And each time get more angry about it.

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