Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 10

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

One of my many books on the topic is Adult Children by Immature Parents which although not specifically about ND, some of the more 'selfish' or 'unregulated' behaviours from parents are definitely relevant in terms of affect on child. It doesn't necessarily blame the parents though and explores ideas about said parents having been subjected to their own trauma in their upbringing. Quite a good book I thought.

I think that is very possible, certainly the case with myself and DW, throw in an unhealthy chunk of RSD, a helping of codependency, simmer for 25 years and we get to where we are now.

@Daftasabroom you’ve just described my marriage. I only left after 12 years because he self medicated with weed to dull down his brain and the aggression scared me enough into action. But I was a shell at the end. Co-dependant relationships are just awful.

I've been in two minds whether to post this next bit. It's not the end of the world, and actually pretty average for us. It does go back to the blame/responsibility/anxiety/control posts a couple of pages back.

We ate early last night, I cooked and asked DW to find some film options. She has this thing for scrolling through options at the speed of light waiting for something to jump out. I made a few suggestions but "no we've already gone past that we can't go back" "er, yes we can, but no matter".

After half an hour of light speed scrolling, she chose a film, I'm like "fine, all those flashing tiles and icons are doing my head in". I'll admit I'm really irritated by this stage.

It was a crap film we've both seen before. I picked up my phone.

DW: why are you on your phone?
ME: I'm not really into this film, but you go ahead, I'm cool
DW: but you chose the film, why would you choose a film you didn't want to watch?
ME: I didn't choose the film, I agreed to watch it, it's no big deal
DW: why should I have to watch film you chose, but don't like?
ME: I didn't choose the film, I just agreed to watch the film you chose, it's a bit dull, no big deal.
It went on until:
DW: you blame me for everything, you can't even take responsibility for watching a film. You're a fucking arsehole.

Threw the remote at me and stormed off.

Without these threads I would think I was going mad.

@Daftasabroom thats abusive.

@Rainbow03 I'm not sure, damaging absolutely, but doesn't abuse imply some kind of intent?

Also this morning:

ME: (coming indoors from outside) brrrr, it's freezing out there
DW: it wouldn't be so bad if you hadn't left the front door open (very accusatory)
ME: I'm not the only one who doesn't close the door properly (we have a dodgy front door, it happens all the time, I'm still feeling wounded from last night)
DW: You blame me for everything..... You're a fucking arsehole (and repeat)

@Daftasabroom In my opinion no it doesn’t but that’s just mine. I went to court for several years and they always referred to my treatment as “abusive behaviours”. At the end of the day intent doesn’t really make a difference as the outcome is the same. My ex blamed his ND, he blamed his up bringing, he blamed me and just about everything he could. He should have had control or he should have not entered a relationship. I should have thought more of myself. I’ve a lovely partner now who is ND and has enough control, he has never shouted or thrown stuff. It’s not an excuse. Rejection sensitivity I get it and I suffer it, my partner blamed that on why he lost it but I didn’t have to accept the behaviour, it doesn’t feel nice. He had a responsibility to find help or to stay away from relationships and not inflict it on someone.

Sounds pretty miserable @Daftasabroom , a race to the bottom, why not set each other free?

Birthdays & Anniversaries - what are your best tactics?

So I have a significant anniversary coming up, which DH hasn't even got close to mentioning.
And my birthday, he's asked if I want to watch him the day before, he's sort of free to do stuff but then says he wishes to return home because he's been away a lot. Feels like he's almost deliberately ignoring my birthday, again.

So shall I just book stuff for me, birthday fun for one or just bulldozer him into something.

I was wondering if that's why we end up staying rather than thinking fuck this I'll manage without him and his inability to pay CMS, contribute to childcare etc. Some people just leave and figure it out afterwards. Others are primed to think about and be trapped by ghosts of the past.

I've had various things thrown at me in a similar vein including whilst holding one of the babies. I'm only now realising that intent doesn't actually matter, it's not a court of law it's our life.

I'm so sorry that happened and I'm guessing it's just in the past for your DW? Whereas for you it's like a wtf where did that come from eggshells ready event....

@CityPressure I don't rely on DH doing anything for my birthday. I plan my own celebration with friends or family just before/after. It's then a nice bonus if he does do something for me. (I put the details about the friends' event in our shared diary to avoid any clash).

So for my last big birthday I arranged a dinner out with my local friends on the closest Saturday (without DH). Then DH announced the next day that he was taking me out for lunch on my actual birthday. A nice surprise.

I'm glad I organised the evening out with friends as well though - constant chat and laughter whereas the meal with DH and DDs was all about the food with pretty much no conversation.

Does anyone else's partner wear headphones in restaurants? DH is noise sensitive, so I can understand why he needs them. I don't enjoy silent meals though.

@LoveFoolMe my DH doesn’t go to restaurants, or anywhere. We haven’t eaten a meal in the same room in years because of his misophonia.

[ETA: quoted wrong post! Meant to reply to the idea that intent doesn’t matter when making decisions about your life & abusive behaviour is abusive behaviour regardless of ND]

I think one of the things that’s hard for me about this is that, as a parent of an autistic child, I’m told all the time that my child’s violence isn’t really violence, it’s a nervous system response to anxiety and distress. And, I’m told, if my child is having meltdowns it’s probably because I haven’t managed his environment carefully enough / taken his emotional temperature accurately and modified my own behaviour and expectations accordingly. Because he’s got a nervous system disability and it is my job to organise his entire world so that it doesn’t cause him anxiety that leads to violence.

And it’s really hard to move from this sort of neurodiversity-affirming parenting discourse to the view that an adult with the same nervous system disability, behaving in the same way, is being abusive.

I find it hard to switch from my Mother-self, where any aggression directed towards me just means I’ve failed my child, to my Wife-self where I’m suddenly meant to be all empowered and refuse to take any bullshit. It’s a headfuck. Do I matter as a person in my own right? As a mother, no. But apparently I need to behave in my marriage as though I do.

@Bunnyhair so how do our children learn that behaviour is not ok? If it is excused when children then it becomes normal to behave in the same manner when adult and thus the behaviour is self perpetuating. Surely that's not right? We all have to learn that certain behaviours are just not ok regardless.

I mean… I’m fucked if I know, frankly. The general advice in PDA parenting spaces is that we just have to trust that our children will learn to self-regulate in time if we are affirming and accommodating enough. I imagine this works for some better than others. I set boundaries with my DC around general safety, but when I enforce them there is often a violent response. And with a PDA child (or with one who is as affected by PDA as mine) there can be no discussion of a meltdown afterwards, no ‘consequences’ or reflection. Only very indirect problem solving to identify triggers and try to avoid them.

And this is how I realise I instinctively began to behave in my marriage after DH stopped masking and I was no longer the special interest. Avoiding what triggers my DH, avoiding anything that could be perceived as a demand, request or expectation. Avoiding mentions of birthdays, anniversaries, etc. Just accommodating and affirming, accommodating and affirming. And we don’t argue - so it works in that respect.

But this dynamic is inseparable from the demand avoidance. It’s not that on his 18th birthday my DH graduated from being a vulnerable young person with a nervous system disability to an abusive arsehole. He’s the same person. This is a lifelong developmental disability.

And to add - my DH was not raised in an accommodating and affirming way. At all. And all the consequences in the world didn’t make him any less demand avoidant. So maybe my DS will be different when he grows up. That is my hope.

But in the meantime there is no room at all for me / my wants / my needs in my family. I’m just here to 24/7 manage everyone’s environment so they don’t get overwhelmed.

😥

Interesting @Bunnyhair DH raised in similar way to your DH certainly by his DM but I gather his Df often secretly enabled his behaviour because he was often away working so I guess felt some guilt for not being around more. His DF still enables behaviour now which others call abusive and manipulative. Some meltdowns are staged I am now sure of as they only happen when his DF is around and the remainder of the time is more of the behaviour Daftasabroom and others experience which is more controlling the household. Some behaviour has intent and some doesn't. So how far does childhood trauma exacerbate the ASD?

I suppose each individual is an amalgam of experience, learned behaviour, nature and the current environment including their partners personality. Put that together and you get a vast difference of experience. BUT that being the likely case how come so many of us experience the same behaviour when our DHs must have had a variety of upbringings and experience? Or are we simply a very small sample who have stumbled upon the same forum to vent or indeed similar forums in other countries that I have found?

At the end I suppose it doesn't matter why. The choice is to stay or leave with some sanity and dignity intact after weighing up the pros and cons. Not easy.
Sorry musing over!

As an adult with ND with some learned behaviour that been more negative surely this can be challenged and unlearned. I can’t speak for others but I’ve personally leaned some negative behaviours that I’ve worked so hard on so that I don’t hurt the people I love. I wasn’t able to eat out in restaurants without vomiting in the toilet from the sheer terror then not touching a mouthful. Other peoples households were an absolute no no. I brought on a migraine with flashing lights trying to eat at a boyfriend’s house when I was a teenager and never did again. That was until a few years ago when I realised that this is just unhealthy and unfair. I can eat out now and I’m happy it makes my family happy. It isn’t fair that everyone must suffer for me. Is this not possible for some people? I know I’m high functioning so maybe that plays a part. Maybe it’s just my personality. My daughter on the other hand is as stubborn as they come but she is only 8.

@Bunnyhair I have a somewhat DA rather than PDA child so I don't fully understand what you're going through. I just wanted to recognise your bravery, your courage, your commitment to your kid. You've clearly done so much learning, adapting and self-development to be able to provide this kind of therapeutic parenting. I understand your conundrum completely and it's insanely difficult. Wish I could give you a hug right now.

I think about this question of responsibility for behaviour a lot. I find it incredibly depressing being the unseen carer or manager for DC and DH behind the scenes because I do see a nervous system disability at work for all of them like Bunnyhair says. So I am trying to work on accepting this at my very core level. That way at least it upsets me slightly less if I don’t feel something has been done on purpose or it is a ‘refusal’ to change when they must know the behaviour really bothers me because I have complained about it 600 times before. It’s genuinely I think more an inability to change.

I also have more insight into my own behaviour as I get older and the messiness of all of human behaviour. I have less illusions about us as rational creatures maybe? For example my own hormonal state I can see has driven my own behaviour sometimes. I know that in some situations I would have had no choice but to behave (badly in some instances) as I did. So perhaps it’s not always as black and white as it always being an adult choice about our own behaviour.

Everybody just has to set our own boundaries of what we’ll tolerate from others. We can’t always choose the cards we are dealt or that we pick. But nothing stays the same forever. Maybe my boundaries will become more self protective and what I will tolerate will change once the DC have got older. There is some agency there.

A coping strategy that I might try is to try to identify areas where I think DC and DH don’t need me (like in the emotional stuff they’re not worried about, but I am). So I will learn as much as I can about the theory of relevant ND so that I can identify what those areas might be, but without my own emotional projections or assumptions of what I presume ‘everybody’ else feels. We don’t all have the same feelings or priorities.

Then i can focus on developing supports for me in those aspects of life and plan for a future that has consecutively more fulfillment in those areas that are important to me. Where that is practically possible or affordable to achieve of course.

The advice/pressure to just ‘carve out time for myself’ to get through this isn’t achievable really at the moment and isn’t what would be fun for me anyway. I don’t want to eg go out for a walk on my own regularly, that would make me feel even more isolated. I’d much rather do that with someone I like to talk to. Strategising and understanding the bigger picture feels more helpful for me, for now.

I think it just gets really complicated when kids come along. What once used to be workable suddenly becomes really difficult. No time and the demands of kids even if they aren’t ND. You need a partner and you kind of have another human who needs you also. I understand the guilt and the conflicted emotions and the resentment and the amount of mental weight.