Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 10

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

PollyTwoBlankets completely agree there. I often walk away. I am often criticised for things that he’s made up. Words I’ve not said. Meanings which I’m supposed to have intended and which are completely alien to me. His ASD means he struggles with communication, both the input and the output. He struggles to make himself understood. He uses the wrong words. He gets easily frustrated. He repeats himself but makes zero sense. He doesn’t read people very well. He thinks he is being really clear. I can read people’s faces though and they’re very obviously really confused. He doesn’t see it.

Input wise, he confuses his filtered thoughts with reality. I say one thing, he filters that with the negativity filter, that creates thoughts in his head about that I meant, he then conjures up some unsaid words and insists I’ve said these. There is no possibility he is wrong. It must be me who has misremembered what I just said. I haven’t! But he can’t be wrong unless he is presented with hard evidence he is wrong. Which is why I sometimes record him. I play it back and say “see? I didn’t say that did I?” He just shrugs and has a go at me for “having to be right!!” I don’t care who is right though. I care about not being shouted at for something I haven’t said.

I am going to try and be more like you. Just shrug and walk away. If he speaks shittily to me I will just accept that he doesn’t know how not to speak like that. It’s hard for me because my DF is also ASD and my DP’s behaviour towards me is very reminiscent of my DF and consequently is dragging up a lot of trauma. Trauma which I had underestimated the damage of. So perhaps it is good I am being forced to face things which I must have buried. I have started having therapy to try and deal with all this. The being shouted at, the constant criticism. It’s like being a child all over again for me. And my childhood wasn’t very happy because of my “D”F. And here I am again!!! Yay for me!!! 😩

I'm always fascinated though, when I see couples having a nice chat. That would just never happen here @PollyTwoBlankets I have this! I think at some deep level I have forgotten that other people don't live like this. When I see couples holding hands, or hear a reference to them having a normal conversation, or see them resolving a simple issue without drama, it really surprises me. I am amazed to hear people looking forward to date nights or time together, I just think ' but why would you want to do that?' And then I remember,. that's normal for other couples. My life is organised the opposite - I try to organise it to spend at little time as possible with H.

It was destroying me, trying to find the right combination of words That's when I gave up. When I realised it wasn't about me failing to find the right combination of words, it was about him not listening. There was never going to be a right combination of words.

@BustyLaRoux

I've just spent a while reading this thread and reliving the horror of my 30-year marriage. I'd been with him for 36 years. I left nearly 3 years ago after hanging on by a thread for a decade or more. Once the kids were older and I could earn enough, I left.

Big hugs to you all. I hope you all manage to get out eventually.

The relationship got to a place where it nearly broke me. Three kids with ASD and all the difficulties/worries that brings, and a husband who was endlessly tricky and frankly scary at times.

I can see now that I was utterly burned out, the GP was offering anti depressants and friends kindly expressed sympathy without really understanding.

We went for a rare walk together, and I told him something awful that someone had said about me. It was a nasty spiteful unfair remark and had upset me and I wanted to discuss it with him. But he didn't respond at all. I thought he hadn't heard me so I repeated it, but nothing.

I was actually weirdly intrigued and said, did you hear what I just said? He repeated it back verbatim. I asked him what he thought about it and he shrugged. I said, do you think it's true? And he said he didn't care. And on we walked.

It was like a switch went in my head. I thought 'I wouldn't leave my worst enemy begging for reassurance like that' and I knew then that his version of love isn't like mine at all. I realised that I had been overlooking all the clues that said that I was at best a junior assistant, and at worst, just a domestic appliance. And it was NEVER GOING TO IMPROVE.

So I decided to take proper care of myself and stop worrying about him. Put in some boundaries, stop reacting to his behaviour, and put myself first sometimes. And life has improved dramatically. I think he likes it too - no demands made of him, and he can relax and decompress as he needs to now, without being asked for any domestic help.

Me just now: have you spilt some water?

Him: no!

Me: oh ok, there just seems to be a lot of water on the worktop and all the paper and cardboard is all soggy. Never mind.

Him: no I have not spilt water.

Me: ok it’s fine.

Him: If I had spilt water I would have cleaned it up, because I am an adult!!!

Me: okaaay. It’s fine. You haven’t spilt water.

Him: no, you asked me if I had spilt water…..

Me: yes I know but it really doesn’t matter.

Him: and I am telling you that had I spilt water I would have cleaned it up. Because I AM AN ADULT!!!

Me: ok it’s fine.

Him: you seem to think I am incapable of cleaning up after myself and accuse me of acting like a child. I AM NOT A CHILD!

Me: I didn’t say that. I just asked if you spilt some water.

Him: yes and only a child wouldn’t clean up after themselves. I am an adult. You are accusing me of behaving like a child.

Me: shall we just leave this? I haven’t said that at all.

Him: as soon as you stop accusing me of behaving like a child.

Me: ok well I didn’t do that so let’s just leave it shall we?

Him: I just don’t appreciate being accused of behaving like a child.

Me: well I didn’t do that. I just asked if you spilt some water. That’s all.

Him: yes and only a child wouldn’t clean up if they’d spilt water. So you’re accusing me of behaving like a child. I am not a child….

And this is my life.

Unfortunately, my emotional detachment hasn’t improved things. I’m just waiting for him to call it a day because if I do it it will reinforce his belief that I “can’t handle his mental health” and he’s the one that’s got to live with it and can never “take a break”.

He’s the one who says he hates being the main breadwinner but likes what the money brings him. Every time we try and tackle that being the crux of the problem he can’t do it. Because he’s got to know how much we need to live on to know what alternative work he could do. I’ve suggested downsizing as a first step but that just goes round in circles of where, what size, what would he do for work, etc. and we end up exactly where we were but with “more understanding”.

I just can’t be bothered anymore. 2 of my (adult) children are ND too and I don’t know why they bother coming to me for advice when they never act on it and one of them just argues back.

Apparently, it upsets people when I get angry (including my sister) so I’m stopping that too. Which isn’t working either as, for example, my driving was too aggressive but now it’s too cautious.

I don’t even know what I want and am sick of people asking. I can’t have what I really want as it’s not possible without causing trauma to others in one way or another. Though I’m probably doing that anyway as it’s tipping into complete indifference. Lose-lose whichever way I look at it.

So sorry for all of you trapped in bewildering, painful, adversarial relationships. I relate to all of it, though I am divorced now, thank God.
My advice would be to stop trying to change or understand their behaviour. If you really can't leave yet, because of the children, please detach emotionally and prioritize your own needs and mental health - like @PollyTwoBlankets describes above. This could mean walking away more and putting much more effort and love into relationships with friends and family - and being honest with them about your marriage if possible.
You all deserve a calm, harmonious life,

I detached during DH mental health crisis. It has been painful though, I feel I have lost so much. I've been trying to reconnect, it's been slow going but perhaps that is okay.

When DH was very unwell it was important not to talk about it and to just keep going. Now I am trying to unpack and process. He doesn't want to do that and acknowledging that his actions harmed me is very difficult for him since he's so focussed on intentions and it triggers a degree of RSD.

As a PP said it's somehow important for me to raise my voice and say the things finally, even if it ends the marriage. However my DH never shows his anger, so it's not the same combative dynamic as others here.

DH has alexithymia so he genuinely doesn't understand his own feelings which I think helps me a lot.

@DrawersOnTheDoors acknowledging that his actions harmed me is very difficult for him since he's so focussed on intentions

You could expend a lot of energy trying to get him to acknowledge something that he just cannot understand. Is it worth it? Does the good in the relationship really make up for the bad?

Does anyone feel connected ? …. Through conversation?
that isn’t instructs or the day today conversations ?
I guess I mean, does your partner ever share their thoughts?… feelings? Wondering?

@Itsrainingoverhere
DH is constantly sharing his thoughts and feelings but with no filter. He verbalises the majority of his thought processes; whether it be making a cup of tea, answering a question or the spirals downwards. And, frankly, the highs are just as bad because he gets all excited about something (and used to do this with the kids too) which rarely materialised because it was fantasy most of the time.
It’s felt like one step forward and 2 steps back for many years. As soon as we agree on a plan he’s rethinking it all over again so we have cyclical conversations about the same things and often end up exactly where we started. Except nothing actually started.
I don’t know if it’s the ASD, ADHD or the bipolar 2 but as soon as he gets what he wants, he wants to change it or it’s not turning out as he expected or the thrill of the chase has gone and the final result is an anticlimax.
He can see, and appreciates, my efforts to help him but can’t understand how each time (particularly over the last 3 years or so) he expresses the negativity it’s making it harder for me to have any belief we’re going to get through this. Because he bounces up and down and things are history and don’t need to be dwelled on. He has a (shit?) typically ND memory whereas I’m the other end of the spectrum and have a phenomenal memory. Which means I can’t let go of these things even if I want to.

Oh
wow this sounds exhausting and very adhd . Thanks for sharing your experience xx

Nope. Not one word here.
dh does not talk bar the minimum. Never has really.

Yes. I do feel connected insofar as he shares his thoughts and feelings with me all the time. In fact he has a bee in his bonnet about a perception that other people (me, his ex) try to silence his feelings. Unfortunately he cannot differentiate between thoughts/feelings and facts. He thinks if he says “I feel….” at the start of a criticism of someone else then they can’t argue with it as it’s HIS FEELINGS!!! And to suggest he might be wrong or that there might be another side is to suggest his feelings don’t matter. I think he thinks he’s found a clever trick to silence me!!!! If he tells me he FEELS something then I am not allowed to say OK, well I feel that’s not quite how it is, as he will tell me I am shutting down his feelings. And whatever he FEELs I do, becomes a fact. He feels it, therefore I must do it. He doesn’t understand things like perception. He doesn’t understand that a feeling is perception and that he brings his own experiences to how he perceives things. He can’t see that. In his mind if he feels I do something that he doesn’t like then the only possibility is that I must be doing it.

An example; he might say “I feel you don’t bother separating out my T-shirts and drying them anymore and they’re all getting shrunk in the dryer”.

Maybe that happened a couple of times. (This isn’t a real example but illustrative). I could say “oh ok, I’m sorry as I know I have done that a couple of times recently by accident but mostly I do pick them out and actually I’m quite careful about not putting your clothes in the dryer as you’ve asked me not to”. He would then get the hump and say I was ignoring his feelings. Feelings = facts. He doesn’t think perception plays a part.

He also seems to think he is Sigmund Freud and constantly analyses people all the time. People he barely knows. He will offer explanations about why they behave the way they do. Their upbringing. Where they’re from (always, always making references to people behaving as they do because they’re American or because they’re from a wealthy family or because they’re a lawyer or a farmer or whatever). There is no nuance, just blanket statements about oh they behave like that because they’re French! That’s what the French do. I say please stop generalising about people like that, it’s awful. You don’t know anything about them. And he puffs out his little chest and says very importantly “I KNOW THE FRENCH!!!” Like some bombastic out of touch old man. Which I suppose is what he is really!! 🤣

Or I will be talking about friends of mine and something they’ve been going through and he will butt over the top of me speaking to offer his ‘insightful’ comments about them. It’s always way off the mark. He just doesn’t understand people at all, but he very much thinks he does. I’ve given up sharing my feelings really. He just makes every conversation about his own feelings or alternatively offers me his views about what I need to do (eg. sack everyone I work with! Not helpful at all LOL)

Yes we have great conversations when DH is well, about shared interests like TV, movies, art, music. It's chronic illness and overwhelm and shutdowns that prevent these unfortunately at times.

He just makes every conversation about his own feelings or alternatively offers me his views about what I need to do (eg. sack everyone I work with! Not helpful at all LOL)

This is very familiar. Last year when the shit was really going down I said that it would be nice if he could acknowledge my feelings without making it about his. I could see he was confused so offered him an example (not a real situation because that would side track him). E.g. I’ve just cleaned the kitchen floor, he then drops a carton of orange juice and I get pissed off and then it’ll be about how I made him feel when it was an accident and I know that he’s clumsy and he’ll be angry with himself. Rather than saying “shit, sorry, I’ll clean it up “.

But my favourite gem was after getting his diagnosis and reading up on it (that’s stopped) he told me how visual prompts and analogies help him to understand. So the previous 26 years of doing that hadn’t helped?? FML but it’s my day job to help children understand something by finding what works for them and I’d been doing the same for him since forever 😤

@Gatehouse77 I really identify with your post. I think that’s the most frustrating thing - they fling any form of perceived criticism back at us.

I’ve just literally sat through a counselling session where everything I’ve brought up was made to be about my poor perception of the past. My favourite was when I was a few months post partum and he shouted at me in the front of the kids and made me cry. It was all because I’d got a bit frustrated with my toddler who we were potty training at the time. He was criticising my negativity towards DS. Even though I’d spent the day being patient and calm and then said ‘oh no’ to an accident in front of DH. Not shouting or anything. He then ignored me for the rest of the day because I was upset. He told the councillor he wasn’t going to stroke my ego by comforting me. That I’d overreacted. He had literally shouted at me in front of my two children and undermined me. At the time I wasn’t sleeping and life was hard. I needed encouragement, not to be shouted at.

Some days I feel I can cope with DH and other days I just want to get out.

I yo-yo between just put your head down, carry on and wait for my detachment to go and start to like DH again (which did happen when we separated 14 years ago for 4.5 years) and trying to figure out if there’s been a fundamental shift that won’t change.
Problem is I’m not very good at the first option and it’s obvious at times how detached I am. And it’s starting to affect other things/relationships because…what’s the point when those efforts are dismissed by a few words?

I don’t know if it’s the fear of being on my own and the loss of the future I thought we’d have or if it’s love that stops me ending it.

DH has said to me he’s no coach and I shouldn’t need support or reassurance- because he doesn’t.

He’s extremely self assured about what is right and wrong and therefore can’t see that sometimes I may be questioning myself and I’d love some reassurance I’m on the right track but he just can’t do it.

He’s not an uplifter. At all.

That’s what I miss most about my DM. Words of affirmation, kindness, support, listening to my worries, soothing them away, being my biggest cheerleader.

All of these qualities you’d hope to have in a life partner but DH is not prepared to try.

When I get upset he says “you’ve always been upset about this, that something is wrong”.

But he’s told me he’s not going to change. It’s just a complete lack of empathy.

As a PP poster pointed out it’s fascinating to hear a real couple chat. I was a plane recently and heard two couples chatting and I wondered what it must be like to be with someone who chats normally. They were laughing and joking about stuff. And discussing this and that. The flow, the ease, oh my!!!

What must it feel like not to be constrained?

@BlueTick and in answer to @Itsrainingoverhere a long time ago I asked DW whether she still loved me because I did need to hear it sometimes? She replied "I wouldn't be with you if I didn't love you". And that was that. I've asked that a hug would sometimes be nice, she tells me I have to make her want to hug me.

I lost my first husband but he was NT and my biggest cheerleader. We had those chats and it was wonderful to feel listened to, supported but most of all held in mind. I knew I existed as a person in my husband's mind all the time. The challenge for us, because every relationship has some at some point was he had to work away briefly and we desperately missed each other.
If we had any issues one of us would initiate a chat and we'd work together to resolve it. No arguments, stonewalling, detachment or shouting etc. A true team. No angst. No second guessing myself. No loneliness.

The contrast to being with someone who was able to pretend to offer all that until we were married is stark. I had no idea what an adult meltdown was! The weekly torment of how long can I go on like this...

@Gatehouse77 could the fear of change be holding you back?

Habit is a very strong force too, and keeps us in the same old situation.

Quite possibly. But I also know that detaching has been a technique honed since childhood and it gets harder and harder to come back from.

And not just with DH.

It's clear that detaching is perhaps a pervasive issue, but I will say that when I was with my ex-H, I learned to shut up and not chat or even talk, and that spilled over into friendships. Which then stuttered and some failed.

It was like learning to shut myself down completely because I couldn't change between having the shutters down at such close quarters and then raising them when I was with friends. It was too difficult.