I've been doing the "pick me dance" for 30 years

[ThePickMeDance]

I've come to the conclusion that I have been doing the "pick me" dance for the past 30 years of my relationship with my DH and I am tired, just so very tired and weary of it. The problem I am trying to work out, is that, is it me, in my head, or is it actually him?

My DH is a good looking, intelligent man, and he has a successful job. From the moment I met him, early 20's, I had other girls trying to get off with him, even in front of me. I lost a couple of friends over it. Here is where the "pick me" dance started.

Since the day dot, I have never felt "really loved, cherished, appreciated, beautiful, slim, intelligent, funny, a great cook, insert other achievement...." because he doesn't say any of these things to me, unless pushed, and it then sounds insincere. I am all these things and more though, because other people compliment me, on me. I don't think my DH loves anyone as much as he loves himself. He loves our DC, but I think he most likes the bits he gave them. He also compares me to other women. I was a SAHM for a few years whilst he travelled and jet propelled up the corporate ladder, and apparently other women in his office juggle 3 DC, whilst making deals, make dinner from scratch, and get to go down the gym and look fantastic. Why can't I?

During our long term marriage, we have had a few wobbles. Mostly him pondering whether he wants to be married to me or not. He once told me "Do you think if we didn't have kids, we'd be together?" Again, I did the "pick me" dance. I think I even said to him "you know you could do worse than me you know. Other people think I am attractive, intelligent and funny". I feel like I am selling myself in an interview. Please give me the job!

Sometimes I actually do think that my DH would be better off with someone else. Perhaps he would be happier with a 36 year old MA Grad with a 100K job, who looks like Sharon Stone back in the day. I also think that maybe I would be happier too, with someone more simple. Someone who comes in from their construction job and asks me if I want a cup of tea, and someone who tells me "bloody hell, you look gorgeous in that dress", even though I don't.

What tipped me over the edge this week was an incident I witnessed. I don't want to out myself so I am generalising a bit. DH and I are clients of someone, a woman, and we met her recently. She started to say something to my DH about thanks for the info (not business related, but WRT an interest of his). She was laughing and joking with my DH and he was doing it back. I thought she was being really flirty, and him too. At one point she leaned into him, and just kind of tapped him with her elbow. I was f*cking standing there. I felt like I was intruding. Anyway we left and I was sitting in the car and it dawned on me that they have been either messaging or emailing about this interest. On it's own it is nothing, but with the flirting and mild elbow dig it felt like the buds of something. If I mentioned it, he would think I am nuts. And TBH, clearly I am going nuts. Also, what upset me was that he doesn't act like that with me. I felt like that poor woman off MAFS Australia, when she came into the room with Collins and everyone is smooching and she thinks "why not me".

Today I am upset. As started, I feel like I am constantly doing the "pick me" dance. Who cares about my happiness? Answers on a postcard please. I'm tired. I am honestly sitting here thinking, what if my DH starts an affair, and TBH the answer is, "if he does, maybe he will be doing me a favour and I no longer have to do this dance".

I know that some of you are going to lambast me for staying and taking this, but I am not sure if he is the problem, or the situation, or I just have no self esteem and this is the problem. Also, I don't want to upset my DC, obviously.

and apparently other women in his office juggle 3 DC, whilst making deals, make dinner from scratch, and get to go down the gym and look fantastic. Why can't I?

Is this the sort of thing he has said to you or something which you tell yourself?

Because if its the first then just leave.

If it's the second then maybe you'd both benefit from some couples therapy.

Ooh I don't think I've ever done this before but

LTB

It sounds too unbearable. Be free!
Then go work on your self esteem.

I was married to someone who couldn’t ever compliment me etc It was his own insecurity it turned out. He felt I was too good for him. But I felt like he didn’t care. Talk to him would be my only advice. Maybe counselling together or separately.

You need to value yourself more than anything. That's clear to me after a 30 odd year trainwreck of a marriage that I have no idea how to get out of. Threats, maninpulation, put downs, financial incontinence, and a total refusal to get involved in household chores/home maintenance. This is in the face of someone who has been demoted twice, disciplined twice, nearly sacked once, who has financially abused me for years. Refuses to leave 'his' house because he 'pays the mortgage'. Our mortgage is tiny, it's just loans we took out to consolidate debt (mostly due to him!). Gives me a pittance every month towards household expenses and threatens to withhold it on a regular basis. Does pay some household bills because I tried to truss him down years ago when I was paying for all the childcare for three, and all of their activities, as well as groceries. I had fuck all left for me.

If you can get out, do it. I wish I could figure out a way. I'm done.

Sounds like he's been "negging" you so he has the upper hand in the relationship.

It happens commonly, even in social/work situations.

It's a control thing - you don't have headspace to progress because you're always thinking about his little digs or getting one over him.

He intentionally ignores or dismisses any success you may have socially or externally as he wants you to feel invisible and like you're being "silly" and attention-seeking.

(I've had men do this to me in a work context when they see I'm doing far better than them).

You're feeling you have to be defensive or analysing the latest incident, so you can't think about the bigger picture for your own development.

For now I'd grey-rock him and detach a bit. Prioritise your own peace of mind. Not make any hasty decisions. How independent are you in terms of work and money? What are your goals apart from those connected to him?

Start privately start building your self-esteem in little ways.

I know it's a leap of faith but you might be surprised if you leave, to find that you don't feel any less worthy and probably feel more worthy actually. Sometimes the feelings have to follow the actions rather than the other way round.

It's not you. It's him, but you're so conditioned to this your doubts are strong, which is understandable.
If you had just met him, before you fell in love, someone told you you would be his wife but constantly compared negatively to other women and never appreciated you'd have run for the hills.

Start to be single in your mind, remember how that felt when you were younger, you lived every day without the influence of a husband, without the comments or looks that makes you feel less than.

Without the inclusion of other females that you feel you need to compete with, any person who is united with another can make that person feel special, loved and number one. It is a choice to make your partner feel insecure, it's a behaviour probably learnt but makes him feel wanted, desired, important and omnipotant.
A pp mentioned your support has created his confidence, I've seen many couples like this and you'd be surprised how many of these men crumble eventually when that support and love is denied but you have to be ready for the consequences, as relationships often end when you put in boundaries.

Put it to the test, withdraw your support, that can be in different ways, indifference, grey rock, do what you want to do, stop worrying about keeping him happy, do what makes you happy, concentrate on your interests.
Put yourself first, depending how far you go, some withdraw all physical help in the home, sexual access, you will see if he misses this.
My guess is he will punish you, probably engage in more risky behaviour and then become angry because you are not there mentally for him. He probably doesn't even recognise how much he needed you. He is sure he doesn't need you by the sounds of it, he's one of the fools.

It's all very familiar watching an ungrateful man go through the motions of being taught a lesson, him rejecting the lesson and then trying to get back into class to resume the lessons.
By that time it's usually too late.

You don't need him really, you never did have any support or love, he was the one who got that, now if you leave he will be the one who has to learn what that feels like.

I worked with a man like your DH. He was a bit worse though because he dithered over every major decision(thinking there might be a better woman out there). This lasted about 15 - 20 years. His wife then had an affair. I think she just got fed up and now doesn’t really care. He is now trying to patch up the marriage but I get the impression that she has lost interest.

I don’t have any advice but I can see why you are weary of the role.

@YouHaveBeenThere this is what happened in my marriage. I somewhat unconsciously started treating my ex how he treated me. We talk better now we've separated. He's told me I stopped loving him and I've told him I just treated him the same ways he treated me. He has another woman to mother him. I carry on just fine alone. Like I always did in my marriage. Because I am stronger than I ever gave myself credit for.

This is interesting @MumJangs

Just to be clear, are you saying OP can rebuild her self esteem and stay in the relationship? Won’t he always be negging her and trying to make her feel ‘silly’? Do you think men like this can change? (These aren’t rhetorical questions or challenges. I’m genuinely interested!)

Oh OP that makes me really sad. I honestly believe that your partner in life should think you're the best thing since sliced bread and tell you so! The fact that he holds back and knocks your confidence is sad.

Can you speak to him about your feelings?

I feel for you OP, he doesn’t sound nice. He also sounds like a complete misogynist.

This bit of your first post stood out for me: “He also compares me to other women. I was a SAHM for a few years whilst he travelled and jet propelled up the corporate ladder, and apparently other women in his office juggle 3 DC, whilst making deals, make dinner from scratch, and get to go down the gym and look fantastic. Why can't I?”

The answer to that question is, if it’s that easy, why doesn’t he? What’s stopping him making deals, juggling kids, getting to the gym to look fantastic and making meals for his family? He holds himself to a complete different standard to
you because you are a woman.

Don’t leave because you don’t think you’re good enough for him, leave because he’s not good enough for you!

It is he who is not enough. He has a monumental deficiency of authentic love, empathy, respect, compassion, fairness, selflessness, remorse…and the list goes on.

@ThePickMeDance, your H is clearly a narcissist who gains immense gratification from humiliating and destabilizing you. He doesn’t consider you as a separate individual with boundaries, couldn’t care less about your feelings, and expects compliance and servicing of his wants and needs, which are primary.

His appalling flirtation with the client in your presence shows what a nasty piece of work he is. This wouldn’t be the first time they’ve crossed lines. He has probably been having EAs (at the least) throughout the years, as he has a thirst for illicit ego validation/supply. Unless he regularly deletes, his phone likely contains a trove of evidence if you’re inclined to investigate. In your shoes, however, his egocentricity and entitlement to degrade and diminish would be my impetus for leaving the bastard.

@Pinkbonbon is correct regarding his view of the children as being extensions of himself. He values them according to how they reflect on him, which is a terrible burden and a danger to their self-esteem and emotional health. At some point they will be stung by his rejection and may internalize feelings of inadequacy. They will be learning very damaging lessons about relationships.

@ThePickMeDance, use your agency to make changes. Gray rock your H and access IC for support, clarity, and to formulate an exit plan.

I think it's time YOU picked you. All this time you were trying to be someone he wanted. What about you? What do you want?

Start focussing upon yourself, your career, your health, your social circle. Better yourself for yourself. Part of this is to future proof yourself, you will need a decent career if you do break up, and part of this is that he has likely taken you for granted up until now. Time for that to stop.

Whether this saves your marriage or just saves you, it will be worth it.

You've stopped caring, because you said maybe even if he has an affair it'll allow.you.to stop worrying. If never be in this situation because I don't pander to men's overexaggerated egos bit if I was, I'd honestly start undermining his ego by withdrawing affection and focusing on myself. He'll be all confused as to why he isn't being worshipped bless him but honestly, who cares. He obviously has contempt for you from what you've written.

How old are your children?

As I have come to a similar realisation and I am just waiting for mine to be over 18 to leave. (plenty of reasons I won't leave sooner and that is non-negotiable, i won't initiate anything)

Been there OP, got the t-shirt and the crippled self esteem.

Was with ex for 20+ years, not married. Always other women on the edges, flirting, texting, facebook messages etc. I hate to admit it but i spent 20+ years waiting for him to leave me for another woman. Cant say 100% that he has been faithful, i have my doubts.

He too could never give me a compliment, but could throw compliments to other women like confetti, i always looked "fine", new dress, new clothes, new haircut etc it was all just fine. I consider myself a good mum, i did my best, he never once told me he thought i was a good mum but told a woman we had only known for a few weeks she was a good mum on facebook, for everyone to see.

I left him in the end as i couldnt live with watching and waiting, watching for signs he was in contact with another woman and waiting for the fall out. i just wanted a normal relationship where i wasnt either crying or hurt.

Leaving him was the hardest thing i ever did but i am glad it did even though i was devastated as i loved him, i really did.

6 weeks after splitting up he moved in the woman he nearly had an affair with. Guess it wasnt all in my head and i wasnt "mental" after all.

Leave him OP, it will destroy your mental health, your happiness, i dont know what happiness feels like, i think i have been numb for years.

Be free OP, put yourself first.

Sounds exhausting. Did you pick him mainly on physical attractiveness ?

I have done that for nearly 25 years.

3 years ago my husband was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. He would throw me under a bus to get the attention of a stranger, especially a woman. No woman would actually want him once they saw what an angry petulant child he is.

If you can get out then please do. I have ground myself into nothing. We have kids and I spent over 20 years doing every single thing in the home, with the kids, and finances and also working with him, hoping one day he'd notice me.
He never really has. He can't, because to notice me he'd have to see beyond him. He can't be kind, he cannot compliment, he can't be supportive, he can't be loving (except when it is in public so will look like the 'good guy')

Please don't be me and look after yourself. For now I am trapped.

He just doesn't sound nice to you. I feel like you deserve someone who appreciates you.

Thank you all for the great responses.

One thing you have confirmed for me is that my DH is a narcissist. I always thought he was just a bit off centre, like logical Dr. Spock, in the way he says things. Sort of like, great at maths, but lacking in social skills.

A couple of recent examples;

I went to a wedding and had a new dress, had my hair and nails done. I'm usually in jeans and trainers with no makeup. He just couldn't bring himself to say "you look nice". In fact, it made me feel like I looked ridiculous.

A few weeks ago a friend drove 2 hours to see me. I made her a cake. She told me it was lovely, and I should apply for Bakeoff. It's a compliment, tongue in cheek. When I relayed this back to my DH he said, "Don't be ridiculous. There is no way you could ever go on Bakeoff. You are no where near good enough". I mean, I know that, but why can't you just say, "She said that? Oh, that's sweet".

My MIL is a horrible narcissist and my FIL is quiet and calm. My DH comes across like his dad, but I now see that he has a lot of his mums traits. You are also correct about my support has created his confidence. The second time I met my MIL she announced to everyone in the room that my DH would never amount to much, but her other DC would. I've always encouraged my DH to go for anything he wants to do, and I'll be backing him up. I can now see that he is getting his validation from work, and his job.

As mentioned, we have had a few wobbles. The first was when I was in my early 30's and everything was going well, and then he went on a business trip and came back with a female penpal. He wasn't sure if he wanted to be married after this. The last time was a few years ago, when I told him I was fed up and not happy with his long working hours and nights out with workmates, and he then again said he wasn't happy, not sure if wanted to be married to me etc. Both times he changed his mind when I accepted the break up and made plans for myself.

You are definitely all making me see that I need to work on myself before I can do anything about this. I am really grateful for the insights you have given me.

You don't need to 'work on yourself'. You need to accept that no work needs doing on you. You have reams of examples of how he's made you feel shit. The only thing you didn't do was act on those feelings.

What would be your dream solution to your problem, if it involves not changing anybody but yourself?

Well said @Watchkeys

there is nothing you can do to change yourself that will change who he is. He is the problem.

there is nothing ‘wrong’ with you

I echo what recent posters have said, and I hope that whenni said 'focus on yourself' it didn't sound like I meant work on yourself what I meant was please yourself, do your own thing and do things just for you without him in mind. Your needs are just as important as his and if you're not getting what you want from him then find it elsewhere (not necessarily another partner but anything that gives you something back, although I.wouldnt rule our another partner in the long term as this current one sounds dreadful).