Am in utter shock

[honeyandbutterontoast]

Will start by saying this is an OW thread. So I’m not asking for sympathy, I’m just in utter utter shock.

Twelve years ago I met someone. We were both married. We fell in love (I thought). My DH was a bad man, I’m not excusing myself but he was. I divorced him, took the bare minimum and waited for OM to do the same.

He didn’t. For years it went on, his excuses, so I wouldn’t see him, he begged me to be patient. I was his soulmate, his best friend, etc etc etc. And I loved him so much.

We bought a house together, he decided on completion day that he couldn’t leave her. I was in a financial mess for years over that.

In Oct 22 I gave him an ultimatum (this date is important), he had to leave her or we couldn’t speak anymore (up till this point we emailed and texted multiple times a day). He said he couldn’t leave her, couldn’t be without his kids. He went away on holiday with them.

Stupidly we stayed in touch “as friends”. Daily he would ask to see me. He would tell me he wanted to be with me, no matter what would make it happen.

(Sorry this is an essay)

Last spring we saw each other for lunch a couple of times. Something was off but I couldn’t work out what, he seemed depressed. I started dating again and told him we could only be friends.

In the summer he sent me a photo and I noticed he didn’t have a wedding ring on! He told me he had “recently” left his wife but didn’t know how to tell me. That he wasn’t sure if we should move in together straight away (!!) or just get to know each other as single people.

We met for lunch a couple of times, he had endless excuses why I couldn’t see his new flat. It all seemed odd but somehow plausible. We last saw each other in October but carried on messaging multiple times a day, chatting about everything. Or so I thought.

He told me he was very depressed and unhappy. Needed time to get used to life alone. I truly believed he was unhappy, possibly even suicidal at times.

This evening I received a message. From his girlfriend. Who he lives with. Who he had told he was separated when he met her 18 months ago. Yep when I gave him the ultimatum, he was with her. They have a whole life together.

She is 20 years younger than he is.

We spoke on the phone and while speaking she was looking through his phone. There are multiple women. All that age. It’s been going on for years with them.

How he has time to run a company I do not know.

So here I am, 12 years on. In utter shock. And that poor girl. I didn’t know what to say to her, I could only assure her there has been nothing intimate between us since before she met him. Unfortunately he has been with others.

i honestly would have told you he was my best friend. His behaviour had been odd yes, but I never thought for a moment it was like this.

His last messages to me were how he had an okay day today, hadn’t done much. They are on holiday!!!

I get that in some ways I deserve this. But she doesn’t. He obviously was putting his wedding ring on to meet me! How messed up is that. Or maybe he wasn’t married then anymore?!

And I’m guessing when we were actually in an intimate relationship he was shagging these other women. I really had no idea. He would beg me not to leave him as he was so unhappy but had no idea how to leave without losing his children/business.

Desperately need to sleep but had to get all that out. It’s like an episode of eastenders.

@honeyandbutterontoast it doesn’t matter if he is / was married and is now separated. He is a liar and never had any intention of being with you regardless of his marital state. I know this is all new and a shock but you need to be angry not bewildered and emphasising that he was your best friend. He is not and was not.

You are still letting him control things and you - saying you are dead to him rather than saying he is dead to you. Until you show some rage you are only going to stay stuck here until he comes back either threatening you or manipulating you.

I don’t say any of this from a position of not understanding. I do. And the only way I was able to get free of a narcissistic, cheating scumbag who preyed on my sympathy for his oh so sad life for years was by being furious. When his lies came out he threatened to kill me. He relied on my shame and vulnerability to keep that quiet. I did.

When he came back a year later trying to worm his way back in I went scorched earth. I have not heard from him in years because he knows if he ever so much as looks in my direction I will ruin him by telling the truth.
And my life has only been better for it. I’ve not had the happy ever after in the traditional way but living life free of that scumbag and his lies has vastly improved my life in ways I didn’t think possible when I was still falling for his shite.

Why all the sympathy for OP? She was wrong to get involved with a married man, a mug for believing him and the sympathy for this "poor younger woman" is bullshit. Made your bed and all that eh?

I'm so sorry you have wasted 12 years on this lying cheating man 😞 no you didn't deserve it. I understand your shock and going over everything in your head. You need to completely stop all contact with him immediately and also his girlfriend. You are not responsible for what he has done to her - don't get involved. Don't let him take up any more of your time and energy thinking about him.

Photos can be manipulated, wedding rings can be bought. This man weaved an elaborate web involving multiple women so I’m another who finds it difficult to believe he’s a family man. Did you see any solid proof ? Did he own property with his wife ? If so, why did that not come up during the purchase process of the house you bought together ? Something’s off.

I'm so sorry OP. There are some extremely manipulative, gaslightlighting evil people out there. Please block all contact by every method you have. You will recover in time. You'll be changed but you'll recover. There's a lot of help online which is free. The shock will come in waves but you will feel more emotionally able to cope in time. Sending love

Holy shit.

Holy fucking shit.

That sums it up actually.
Thank you!

I'm not going to criticise you or the choices you made, @honeyandbutterontoast - it is clear to me that they were not free choices, because they were based on the lies and misinformation this man has fed you over so many years.

All I can say is that my heart goes out to you, and to all the other women this poor excuse for a human being has lied to. I wish there was more I could do.

I agree its what you get for messing with married men karma.
Ive got no sympathy.

I agree with some of the others he will come crawling back. Don't even engage as he will try to manipulate you.

Very much this! I don't think @honeyandbutterontoast is paying attention to any of the excellent advice (explicitly the 'solution' based advice that will get her out of the hole shes in) offered. Her replies are only about the status; that it was (at least at one time) a valid relationship. But it wasn't, ever.

Probably involved paying compensation to others in the chain for backing out at the last minute - not to mention still being liable for solicitor and estate agent fees. But something isn’t right here. If he was married and presumably owned property with his wife, or already had a mortgage, how did this not come up during the purchase process ?

@Ilovelurchers

I have noticed on here increasingly a tendency to victim blame - if a woman has been mistreated by a man in a relationship in any ongoing way she is almost attacked for her "low standards" and ordered quite rudely to "work on her self esteem".

I don't think it's victim blaming to say that saying someone has low self esteem if they've lived a half life of sorts for over a decade waiting for a married man to leave his wife.

OP must have huge issues around self esteem / self worth to have tolerated his behaviour for so long. I don't think she would disagree with that at all.

She deserves a full, happy life. That doesn't mean she has to be in a relationship.

But she needs to value herself more highly than she has. And to put her children first by prioritising her mental health over that of a man she knew (at best) was a competent liar and married man.

Counselling would do her the world of good and could be life changing.

OP there is a strong undertone in your posts that you feel not responsible for your own actions because of past abuse.

No one deserves abuse and it is understandable that it has hurt and impacted you.

But it doesn’t excuse you from not making wise decisions. It isn’t impossible that this louse has something in his past he thinks exonerates him. I actually think it’s highly possible.

If the comments about your dcs are accurate, please do the right thing and turn your focus and energy to them for now. It will be very healing I promise, gif you and them. These are your people.

This is why we have to stop conditioning women and girls to put other people's emotional wellbeing before their own.

There's a reason you're targeted by abusive men and that's not your fault.

If he hadn't been in a relationship with you it would have been some other poor, deceived woman or ten. That's why I rarely believe the scheming mistress trope. It's far, far more likely, particularly with older men/younger women situations that she's been deceived and thinks he's some hurt, lost soul.

OP lost me at contacting his girlfriend to warn her. After years of being the OW and not taking any responsibility for breaking up a family, suddenly OP feels a sense of responsibility to her ? I don’t buy it. It’s just another way to reinforce in her own mind that she’s the victim. Lots of good advice on the thread and she appears to be ignoring it all.

You need some major therapy to discuss why your self esteem is so low. If you were the wife and he'd been treating you this badly for twelve years, I'd think you were mad or sad to put up with it. But at least you'd be able to tell yourself that he was committed to you and you believed there was a good man beneath it all.

But you put up with this from someone you knew from day one was a lying, cheating shitbag. You tried to buy a house with the lying, cheating shitbag and were surprised when he acted like a shitbag. And even after that, you continued to engage with the shitbag and only ended it because you found out he had someone else that he'd actually been willing to commit to more than you.

You aren't worried about the other women, you're just looking for a way to continue to stay involved in his drama. You need to work out what it is you're getting from this and find it somewhere else.

Nailed it.

@honeyandbutterontoast

Are you ok?

I’m so sorry this has happened, that he has been so awful and that you have a history of trauma in childhood too. And that you lost your business and home due to Covid.

I wouldn’t feel guilty, or spend any time thinking of him.

Take time to work through things, you will go through a period of grieving for this significant relationship in your life and that is all perfectly valid and normal. Consider what it means to you to have had the last 12 years dominated by him, what have you lost/gained from that time, what have you learnt. Try and access trauma therapy with a specialised counsellor - ask your GP, there are services available you can self refer to that are free or charge a vastly reduced fee.

Please take care of yourself, focus on what you want in life now and put all of your energy into that. Get yourself into the healthiest mental and physical state you can.

As for the other girl/s, wives and women; they are not your responsibility. They are adults and whatever way they choose to conduct themselves, it is not your problem.

Focus on you and please take care 💐

Not sure why you are in so much shock to discover that a known devious, deceptive, cruel, manipulative and duplicitous man is actually devious, deceptive, cruel, manipulative and duplicitous! 🤷🏼‍♀️

Op, this man is still in control of you. You have to stop going over and over it and letting him take over your life, that way lies madness. All you are doing is reinforcing the lies he's told you, but what you must do is stop this persistent re-examination - he's a compulsive liar and cheat, a thoroughly unpleasant person. He's not worth any more of your time and life has a nasty habit of paying people back who treat others like sh%t, so he might get his anytime soon. Live your best life - the best revenge!

The OP is in utter shock. Part of giving advice well is to understand that the advice might take a while to sink in or resonate. I think it's quite uncharitable to criticise the OP for not having immediately taken all advice and given a pleasing performance of no longer being affected by this sociopath. OP I think you are doing as well as you can - please don't beat yourself up for still being in shock and going over old ground. You need to grieve in whatever way is right for you. This is day 1 and you have months and years ahead of you before you are truly healed. You don't need to justify yourself to anyone here. Tuck the good advice away for later, and different things will come out and chime with you at different times.

I thought I was going mad and questioning my own judgement when I read the amount of sympathy here!

The situation has reminded me of the BBC program For Love or Money, it was presented by Ashley John Baptiste. It was about romance scam (the OP hasnt been financially scammed, but shes certainly been acutely emotionally scammed).

It was a fascinating program, because even when utterly indisputable evidence of them being scammed was presented, some of the victims still couldnt/wouldnt accept. You could still see the hope in their eyes, and you just knew they were going to continue falling victim. Any time I watched it, I wanted to reach in to the TV and give them a shake!

I find it sad in the main, but I also find it quite fascinating from a psychological standpoint. Most of us have had scammers contact us by email/text or whatever and we recognise and dismiss it straight away, without thought. Some people just don't (can't???) see it though, and buy it hook and line; often to the extreme (as seen on the TV show).