What am I going to do with this sensitive and horrific information?

[wouldlovearoast]

Hi Mum's Net. This is a very sensitive subject and involves child abuse and maybe hard for people to read.

I am wanting some advice please. Ive been told by someone close to me that my friend was sexually abused by her older brother when she was 7/8 years old - so 30 years ago. He is a year or so older so he would have been 8/9 at the time. She's obviously never told me this herself so it may not be true or it may.

I'm actually not close to this woman and I know everyone is dealing with issues and everyone has a past and secrets. But the problem I face is that her brother (the abuser) is the father to my best friends children. If this is true, I feel like she has the right to know? Or is this going to open up a can of worms that could potentially ruin families on both sides - My best friends children's relationship with their father, and the fathers family. Worth pointing out my best friend is not with the father to her children. Because if this was me I would not want my children around an abuser, even if he did it when he was a child.

I'm also torn if its even true, because the woman is really close to her brother and allows her friends to date him and for children to be around him. If he did abuse her when she was younger, why would she allow the above and maintain a close relationship and lives so close to him? Surely she would want to get away from him and certainly not allow her friends to date her brother? Also I know abuse is a lot more complex then that but I'm just talking through the situation.

Do I do something with this information or leave it and not get involved? I just want to do right by my best friend. Thankyou.

So it’s hearsay? How did the person who told you become aware of it, and why did they tell you, rather than tell the woman married to the alleged abuser?

How does the person close to you even know this happened? I would not be listening to 2nd hand gossip. If that person knows in a professional capacity then they shouldn't be passing it on.

If the woman herself maintains a close relationship with her brother it seems unlikely doesn't it? What is the motive of the person spreading the "information"?

You do nothing because you are getting this information second hand. If you must do something, ask your friend if what you've heard is true. This could give her flashbacks which she doesn't need, upset her that her private life is being discussed very publicly and ruin your friendship.

It's a difficult situation and I can see why you feel conflicted, but I think because what you've heard is essentially rumour, there is nothing you can do other than put it out of your mind and move on.

It's not unusual at all in cases where there is family abuse for everyone to just carry on as normal. I know quite a few people who have been abused by a family member and everyone has just carried on playing happy families. But it may also just be a malicious rumour. Or someone has gotten confused or misunderstood and is sharing inaccurate information.

If you did feel like you needed to do 'something', you could consider going to the police and asking if they would do a third party Sarah's Law disclosure on him. I know you can do a third party Clare's Law disclosure, but I don't know about Sarah's Law. This would mean, if he has any criminal history of child sexual offenses, the child's mother would be notified. However, I think it's quite unlikely that she wouldn't already know of anything that may have happened - if he was prosecuted or served time in prison for another offense, surely she'd have noticed he was missing. Or there would have been social services involvement already. But it is at least 'something'. They will not disclose if there is nothing to disclose.

Really though, as worrying as it is, I think this may be one of those situations where you are too many degrees removed from knowing what really happened, so there isn't really an avenue for you to intervene. I can understand though why you feel you should now that you have this information.

Go to the source before you do anything.

Who is this woman? In what capacity does she know your friend? How long for? Why hasn’t she done anything about it herself? Why did she tell you?

I’d be asking her all the above and more, and I’d then I’d ask her what she plans to do about it. She’s thrown you a very nasty hot potato, and I’d be throwing it right back.

Potential hearsay yes. But it's my fiance who told me. He used to go out with this girl who was alleged abused many years ago, so she told him in confidence. He's only told me now because it's a lot for him to carry and especially since how entwined it all is - since he's been with me he's got to know my best friend and he clearly can't carry it on his shoulders and feels guilty for my best friend not knowing this information. But my best friend may even know already and she hasn't been able to share for the obvious reasons? It's all very messy.

So because it's come from my fiance who used to go out with this girl, why would he lie about something so horrible. But she could be lying, or it could all be a horrible rumour.

You leave it and don't get involved. Also, her brother, if it's true, was only a year older and was very young himself. This kind of thing occurs more often than people realise within families and its far more complex than with adult abusers. You cannot treat the brother the same way as an adult abuser and having an attitude that he is an abuser is a misguided stance to take. It doesn't mean he is going to grow up to be an abuser of children.
Take your lead by how his sister behaves towards him, she is close and has a normal relationship with him now by the look of it.
It's actually suspicious and somewhat grim that this other person that you don't know well has decided to gossip about this.

I just reread your post and saw that the brother who abused his sister was only 8 or 9 at the time. Setting aside the lasting impact of this on her for a moment (because the OP barely knows this woman, so her focus is on potential risk to her friend’s children), this would not make me think that reoffending as an adult was in any way likely.

I would do precisely nothing.

If these rumours were about you what would you want to happen

You'd want it contained esp if it's not true

If anything speak to the brother, the supposed abuser

It's complicated because it's people lives involved and you don't know the truth

I know of a similar situation from a family I used to know well when I was younger. The brother and sister (as teenagers) both saw it as consensual sexual activity between 2 children. They both separately confessed to me that they had done XYZ as young children. It was obviously something they just brushed under the carpet and never spoke of.

I moved away but still see them from time to time when I am home, as well as on various social media. Both are married and have kids and the 2 families seem close. I always wondered if they had told their spouses.

It might be that, given the ages involved, neither of them see ot as being abused by the other and rather some kind of dirty secret never to be acknowledged.

Personally if it were me I would say nothing. Even if he did abuse his sister as an 8yo, she has obviously forgiven him, and there seems to be no suggestion he has set any other foot wrong since is that right? Do you think we should all be held accountable for things we did at 8 years old for the rest of our lives?

Also this alleged abused doesn't seem to have carried so who knows what that was all about at the time

OK, I read it as the person who told you you aren't close to. The rest still stands. You are jumping to a conclusion that children who have been involved in this behaviour grow up to be adult abusers of children, which is not the case.

Not your circus not your monkeys

Walk away

You do not know the true facts

You are essentially spreading rumours and lies about someone

I'm trying not to jump to conclusions, I just want to do right by my best friend. I feel like if this was the other way round I would want to know this about father to my children. But I also know it could have been embellished and also, it doesn't mean he abuses now. Never the less it's a very sensitive subject and I just want to do the 'right thing' here because god forbid if anything happens and I didn't say anything...

You should stay out of it

But it's not really any of your business is it

This is unverified information, aka rumour.
If true, there doesn’t appear to have been the power imbalance that is the signature of sexual abuse.
And, as Opentooffers says, children who have been involved in this behaviour do not necessarily grow up to be adult abusers of children, given no other factors.

You're right it's not directly my business no. But it involves my bestest friend, and its not gossip because of the source.
I wrote on here for advice and that's what ill take. I'm not going to tell anyone, I just wanted opinions on what to do with this information Ive been told. I just want to do the right thing that's all, so I'll stay out of it and let it go.

The right thing is to do nothing. You clearly can't get past accepting that what happened in no way means that his DC's are at risk. You are using emotive and dramatic language and are taking this too far in your own mind. The mother of his children does not need to be informed.

So the abuser was only 8 or 9 and the abused is still close with him and happy to have him around her own children?

It's a really difficult position for you to be in, but I don't think there's anything for you to do.

When it comes to my best friends I am not being dramatic. I'm protective and a bloody good friend.

But yes you're all right, I am going to do nothing with it. Thanks for the advice.

We all have a duty to safeguard children. All decisions you make need to prioritise this from now on. It is not our job to work out whether an abuser is likely to reoffend. I agree OP, that if I were your best friend, I would want to know about this. Presumably her children's father has unsupervised contact.

When children are involved, the threshold for proof to start some form of child protection proceedings is also lower than that for criminal conviction.

I think knowing how old the brother was when the alleged abuse took place would help enormously with weighing all this up. However, your fiancée can talk to the sister about this. Sure it might upset her, but potentially safeguarding children is more important in this instance.

It may or may not be true, but something told to your fiancée in confidence by the alleged victim cannot be dismissed as "rumour" at this point.

The OP says this. He was eight or nine, around a year older than his sister.

Regardless of criminal responsibility, a child can sexually abuse another child.

My DD was sexually abused at 4 by a 5 year old boy. Involved penetration. Happened multiple times and DD was many, many years in therapy.

As a mother of a child who was sexually abused, I would want to know. Too many people shut their eyes and mouths whan there were suspicions, and it led to the permanent physical and psychological harm of my DD.

As to how you go about it, I do not have any great advice. If you do want to tell her, feel her out and see if she knows anything or has any suspicions. Personally, incest is worrying.

Edited for spelling error.