Are all men like this or is it only mines driving me crazy??

[Sallylilo2]

I’m sure many of us can resonate or maybe I’m just trying to understand if this is normal behaviour but how do your partners usually react when you bring up something that has upset you, whether it be how they acted, spoke to you or just their behaviour in general. Do they receive it well, do they listen and acknowledge and take accountability?

As for me my reality has always been I raise something with him, about how I’m upset as to how he’s acted or spoken to me and he will then get incredibly defensive! He will then deny that he did what I’m saying he did, gaslight me and then make me feel like I’m overreacting.

Because it’s been so consistent I tend to get very upset when he denies what he’s done, saying he didn’t do that or that’s not what he said. The gaslighting leads to no resolve and then he will complain women are just emotional or he will blow up at me and not listen. He will then get into a withdrawn mood with me for bringing up what he’s done so now I’m the one in the wrong by giving me silent treatment. This leads to me becoming increasingly more upset and then he tells me to lower my tone and not be intense and that he won’t speak to me when I’m so intense.

He then avoids accountability and tells me how I should not respond or react to his actions and then he will walk away and say this is why I can’t talk to you and then I’m left feeling crazy. Is this a gap that can be bridged or am I even more crazy for thinking so?

It sounds like emotional abuse and misogyny

It certainly is...and gaslighting... stonewalling too. Its emotional abuse.
OP look up the freedom programme i think youll benefit from it.

All abusive people are like that.
But not all men, no.

Life's too short. You're asking the wrong question tbh.

If other men were this way, does that mean you should continue to live with a bastard? Surely if all men were that way, you could just be single.

But they aren't.

And besides, other men aren't remotely relevant right now. You still have to extract yourself from an abusive relationship and ideally spend a few years single, regaining your self love, shoring up your boundaries and learning how to spot abusers asap in future so you're less likely to date them again.

If your dog bit your child, would you ask 'do all dogs bite?' no, you'd get rid of the dog. And IF you ever considered a dog again, you'd think long and hard about it and do your proper due diligence before choosing one to keep.

I completely agree with everything you’ve said. The only reason I posed the question of is it all men is that is my partner’s go to cop out when he wants to avoid accountability or talking about his actions. He says all men are like this and in his words very rarely do they take on criticism without getting defensive and it’s an ego thing as they don’t want to accept accountability.

Are you asking this because you really don’t know the answer? I cannot imagine if you go back to him and say ‘but mumsnet says they are not all like this’ it will really make a difference.

No not all men are like this. Just like not all men are cheats, all mother in laws are manipulative witches, all women expect their male partners to just know what they are thinking or all Americans want to own guns.

Your husband is like this and he is the one you have to live with. It seems from what you have said he is unlikely to change. Does he have any redeeming qualities?

Sounds like a self aware narcissist, but instead of using his insight for positive reflection and change, he's using it as an excuse to emotionally abuse you. Quite sinister really.

That also makes him worse than many of the men he described, because they're doing it whilst in denial of their wrongdoing, and lacking emotional intelligence. He knows he's behaving badly and hurting you, and somehow that is still a you problem, not a him problem?!

He's clearly not going to change, so you can safely depart from this unsatisfactory coupling knowing you're doing the right thing.

Set yourself free OP.

Funny isn't it, the he has the presence of mind to recognise that its an ego thing and yet, still can't apologise for his behaviour and change.

It shows he knows what he is doing and doesn't care about how it affects you. Is happy to carry on behaving like an asshole as if it's excusable.

Nope, adults are responsible for why they behave as they do. If they recognise their behaviour hurts someone they love and that they behave this way for essentially, childish, selfish reasons, then they need to have some fucking character growth. Like normal adults would and do every day. Normal people can go 'oh shit, I've been behaving like an ass because of xyz, thats no one's fault but my own, I must make steps to address this so I don't hurt people I care about in future'. They can introspect and evolve.

But abusers will never do this. Because at best, they don't care that they hurt you. Because they only care about themselves. At worst...they like hurting you because they need you too broken to leave or, simply, enjoy it.

They are perpetual nasty little infants. Only interested in their own wants. Only seeing you as their toy, there to play with as they see fit. And often, they play mean. They will never change.

I don't think it's very nice, and it will constantly chip away at your relationship. You can't talk to him, you can't resolve anything. However, I don't think it's 'abuse'. Mumsnetters are actually undermining the term and those who actually are suffering real emotional abuse. Pretty much any man or woman with any undesirable behaviours is an abuser, according to Mumsnet. It's getting silly.

Agreed. Everyone is a narcissist too apparently. In the past we just said they were dickheads.

If he makes you feel crap then you should plan to leave him.
It doesn’t really matter how other men behave

My husband did this.

I went to therapy.

It was emotional abuse.

In a good marriage even if they don’t see the behaviour the same way as you do, they should validate your right to have feelings about something and if they love you will attempt not to do the thing that you say upsets you.

If they don’t want to change their behaviour, they are likely to say anything that supports their argument, and even worse, they don’t even truly believe it themselves.

No they’re not. It’s him.

Why are you 'bringing up' something that upset you? Don't you say at the time, 'don't talk to me like that', or 'please don't do that you know I don't like it'. If you rake over things the next day (or the next week or forever) then I'm a bit with your DP.

DARVO

www.choosingtherapy.com/darvo/

If all men were like this, would you plump for feeling crazy, or make a change?

I'm trying to work out the relevance of all the other men, when your partner is driving you crazy. Why does it matter what they're all up to? He might use this as his defence, but you have to work out if this defence works for you, don't you? Rather than work out what 'all men' are doing?

I think it's pretty common. My last two have been like that which is why I'm single.

I got tired of being told I was imagining things, or that things hadn't magically been broken or taken, when we were the only two in the house. Tired of having history rewritten.

It happened to you twice but that doesn't mean it's common. There are many relationships out there in which each partner respects the other's point of view and takes responsibility for themselves.

I don't understand why men can't just say 'oh sorry I broke your cafetière , I'll get you a new one'. rather than shrugging, avoiding my eye and then telling me I must have imagined ever having one. Or that I don't need one anyway so why am I making such a fuss. 🙄

I don't understand why women think that this is what 'men' do. This is what crap men do. Why are you giving him the excuse of 'having a penis'? Why not look at the behaviour and think 'that's a shit way to behave', and go from there, without giving him a 'valid' reason of 'being male'?

What is "real emotional abuse" in your opinion?

Abusive men do.

I've been with my partner 4 years, I've never had to have a discussion with him about the way he speaks to me being upsetting because he respects me enough not to speak to me in a horrible way.

Equally if I'm upset about something non related to relationship issues he never invalidates my feelings!

I had this. Although rather than blowing up, he'd go silent and ignore me for days (we didn't live together) until I made conciliatory advances, because that is "his way of dealing with things".
I couldn't even raise the ignoring as an issue as I "knew this upfront and know that's how he deals with things", so suck it up
We've now ended. I ended it although he pushed and pushed and pushed for it, but wouldn't say the final words.
So now I'm the bad guy.
If someone shows you he's an emotionless robot, listen.
You shouldn't be worried about raising your feelings within a loving relationship.
IME he won't change

Some people behave like this. Some of them are men. None of them are much fun to be in a relationship with, but you know that already.

You know it's not healthy or 'right" or you wouldn't be questioning it, and it doesn't matter if you get 100 women replying saying their Tony is a right shit, he's exactly the same, men eh, what are they like? it still doesn't make it ok.

What is it like the other way around? Does he freely tell you about things you've done that have upset or annoyed him? Does he expect you to listen to him and admit fault / apologise?

So, there's gaslighting, minimising of OP's feelings, him 'blowing up', and silent treatment.

What do you think 'real' emotional abuse looks like?