Are all men like this or is it only mines driving me crazy??

[Sallylilo2]

I’m sure many of us can resonate or maybe I’m just trying to understand if this is normal behaviour but how do your partners usually react when you bring up something that has upset you, whether it be how they acted, spoke to you or just their behaviour in general. Do they receive it well, do they listen and acknowledge and take accountability?

As for me my reality has always been I raise something with him, about how I’m upset as to how he’s acted or spoken to me and he will then get incredibly defensive! He will then deny that he did what I’m saying he did, gaslight me and then make me feel like I’m overreacting.

Because it’s been so consistent I tend to get very upset when he denies what he’s done, saying he didn’t do that or that’s not what he said. The gaslighting leads to no resolve and then he will complain women are just emotional or he will blow up at me and not listen. He will then get into a withdrawn mood with me for bringing up what he’s done so now I’m the one in the wrong by giving me silent treatment. This leads to me becoming increasingly more upset and then he tells me to lower my tone and not be intense and that he won’t speak to me when I’m so intense.

He then avoids accountability and tells me how I should not respond or react to his actions and then he will walk away and say this is why I can’t talk to you and then I’m left feeling crazy. Is this a gap that can be bridged or am I even more crazy for thinking so?

I think a few things are going on.

For starters - I do think a lot (most?) of men tend to react defensively to what they perceive as criticism. They take it as an attack to their personality. They do often think acceptance of wrongdoing is a sign of weakness.

Another point though - I am not sure what sort of relationship you have that you need to discuss how he is speaking to you; or the wrong things he is doing to you. Without more details it's hard to judge whether it's a dysfunctional relationship with him being an a*hole. Or whether you are oversensitive and like to tell him off, like you would a child.

@Sashya I think that most people actually respond defensively to criticism because most of us are pretty bad at giving it in a kind and constructive way or make poor choices on what to criticise. And most of us don't like having our ego bruised even if we are wrong. I don't think that is especially gender specific unless you are some sort of masochist. I mean I say 'most' when I can only mean most of the people I know. I have no idea really how 8 billion people behave.

I think you make a really good point on how we don't really have enough information to assess whether it is him being an asshole or she is overly sensitive.

@Watchkeys it's a dysfunctional relationship, because he's not willing to admit to his mistakes, and he's a dick. It's not abuse.

@Watchkeys I mean, for example, this behaviour, while really annoying and corroding their relationship, is not going to leave the OP with any form of trauma. She's not afraid of him. She's not scared. She doesn't live in fear. She doesn't feel trapped and unable to leave. Some of you are absolutely clueless. Just a couple of decades ago people were allowed to be annoying or a bit of a dick. Now they're a full on abuser (when there is not actual abuse victim, no trauma, no fear, no destroyed life, no lifelong damage).

This one is not a keeper. I'd get rid. He's not going to change, and no - not all men are dickheads. It's him not you.

Find a better one.

@TwoWithCurls

He is exhibiting abusive behaviour by minimising @Sallylilo2 's feelings, gaslighting her, and using the silent treatment.

You don't need to agree, and what people were doing a couple of decades ago has no bearing here.

They're all detailed here:

Emotional Abuse: What It Is and Signs to Watch For (healthline.com)

@Watchkeys completely open to interpretation. And no, humans have not changed, not in 20 years, not in 150,000 years. It's actually ridiculous that you're telling her she's being abused. He's annoying, he's not an abuser. The police are not going to arrest him, for example. Like I said, she's not traumatised, or afraid.

No, all men aren't like that. I'd say the majority of men aren't like that. No decent adult person acts like that.

Only abusers.

@TwoWithCurls A couple of decades ago people were allowed to be annoying, a bit of a dick, and it was also legal to rape your wife.

Boys will be boys, eh.

Right, but rape is illegal. Being a bit of a dick is not. It's just so childish and a world of fantasy that some of you exist in.

I think you're missing my point. A couple of decades ago, which you used as a yardstick, it was legal to rape ones wife. In 1992 it was made illegal. Coercive control, otherwise known to some people as "Bit Of A Cunt But He Doesn't Hit Me So What Can I Do" was made illegal at the end of 2015.

You set your bar wherever you feel is best for you. People have different standards for their relationships of course. If what the OP describes is normal for you, then I'm sure what I'm saying doesn't make sense, but there's loads of info out there if you ever get an inkling that not being consistently stonewalled, gaslit, shouted at, starting to feeling increasingly more upset and like you're going crazy could be more than just a fantasy.

So he gets defensive when she tries to talk to him about things she think he's done wrong, and instead tells her he didn't do it or that she's being too emotional. How annoying and difficult to live with in the long run. But that's not abuse. Not by a long stretch. Doesn't fit the criteria at all. And certainly isn't coercive control. Just because someone makes you unhappy, doesn't mean they're an abuser. Mumsnet is ridiculous.

I thought men were like this in general until I got into my most recent relationship.

If either of us have an issue we talk it out and both apologise if necessary. If he thinks he's done something to upset me, he will do everything in his power to make it right.

Set your standards and don't settle for anything less. The denial, stonewalling, talking in circles etc is at absolute best very immature, and at worst deliberately abusive. You don't need to live like this

Yeah, my partner isn't like that. Sorry.

@TwoWithCurls each to their own. Out of interest, could you describe what you think Emotional Abuse is?

I think it depends on whether or not the behaviour is deliberate - knowingly making someone doubt their own reality, take on everything by themselves, stonewalling them so they don't ever speak up again etc is absolutely emotionally abusive. I have been in a relationship like this and for want of a better phrase, it drove me nuts - whilst he just seem to thrive on me becoming more hysterical.

Of course these things can also simply indicate a person who doesn't know how to take accountability and cannot take criticism. We can't know for sure here because we don't know his intent.

Making the call either way is inappropriate. Only thing we can say is that the OP should leave as she's unhappy

@GoldDuster i already have if you read my previous posts. I was raised in a house with an emotionally and physically abusive father. I know exactly what it looks like. There will be others who have actually lived it who are also frustrated by the way these words are bandied around on the internet.

So one poster is gaslighting her/himself then. We have moved on from its domestic violence as in hitting only you know.

he’s emotionally abusing you and it’ll get worse the longer you stay. Time to end it if you can and safely.

That makes sense.

@GoldDuster oh in your world, I'm sure it does 🙄

But he is making her feel like she's going crazy. That can cause lasting trauma. Doubting herself for the rest of her life. Surely that's abusive?

@TurtleCavalryIsSeriousShit I don't think there's anything to suggest she thinks she spend the rest of her life doubting herself. She knows exactly who's in the wrong here. There's actually zero doubt in her mind about who's in the wrong. Read the post again. All she's asking is whether or not this gap can be bridged or not, not if she's in the wrong. She knows exactly what's wrong and who the problem is.

She knows it’s wrong doesn’t mean it isn’t abusive either.

some women can’t just up and leave due to endless things such as money and housing, plus kids that he will be allowed to see regardless as the courts are for the absent parent to be there.

it erodes your self esteem knowing you sometimes have no choice but to stay sometimes.

No H either instantly knows he is being a prick so stops.
If he has to be told he apologises and explains if he didn't realise and tries to not do it again or sometimes (which can be more painful to endure) overcompensates!

Basically if I am cross or angry he will listen, communicate, whatever I am never dismissed. Never. Never ignored.

Occasionally I am mistaken that's on me but even then, even then, I usually get all the love and attention for bringing it up.

Why the need to be so unpleasant and put people down? Do you always think people are in a world of fantasy when they disagree with you?

There is abuse here. You can disagree, but if people say it, then OP will be able to see it, regardless of your disagreement. You're speaking as if you're the voice of authority and as if you know best. It's just your opinion, and there are plenty here against your one voice.