DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

I would write her a letter acknowledging everything you’ve said here - that you can see some things from her perspective but that you have loved her and her siblings equally and that this is heartbreaking. I’d reiterate that you love her and the door is always open. That if she needs to take some space away from the family then you respect that.

Her siblings are here, they cannot be removed and she can either choose to embrace her family and be loved. Or remove herself and be alone. It really is her choice, not yours.

I would also point out that her resentment towards her siblings is a her problem (maybe word it better than I have) and she needs to explore that. Lots of people have siblings but don’t have these intense negative feelings. Say again that you’d welcome family therapy. I’m not sure individual therapy will help for her because she seems as though she will paint it very differently to the reality.

Overall, I’m of the opinion, having read all of your updates. That she is a being a madam. She sounds spoilt and self indulgent.

I think she is in a victim mindset and it will take quite a bit to bring her out of that.

I’d be quietly furious if I were you. I have 4 children and it is simply impossible to give the kid of attention she is demanding. It’s not possible. It sounds like you have gone above and beyond to make her feel special and meet her needs but I suspect no matter what you gave her - it would never be enough.

I’m on the fence about the financial support. I think removing it will reinforce her view that she’s the least loved but at the same time maybe she needs a dose of reality on making it on her own. But I do think you need to set a boundary that if she wants to remove herself from the family then she cannot be expected to return during the holidays and create a hostile environment. Either she agrees to work on things or she agrees to find alternative accommodation.

I don’t think op said her dd is suicidal. Op is not your mother and her dd is not you.

I really feel for you both. This is a young woman who is struggling for whatever reason and has or has had MH issues. Long-term, I suggest you continue to let her know you love her, support her, want the best for her (whatever she decides that is) and are willing to listen to and talk with her or join her in counselling. Has she sought help at university, from GP, MH services or student support - maybe you can encourage that without asking her about the outcome.

Short-term, I'd focus on nurturing her from a distance. What type of communication (which may be one-way for now) does she find easiest - could you write letters to her? Send her a care package from time to time? Will she let you visit her for a day or evening out; would she prefer a day out to be not too much talking, so with a focus like theatre, cinema? I'd do anything you can to keep communication open, without catastrophising, pressuring or backing her into a corner.

Accept that her feelings are individual and valid and hope that she'll seek any help she needs, or that she'll feel more settled in time. Look after yourself too, so that you can cope with the pain of this. There's a good chance things will improve as she gets older.

Astonishing how many posters are advocating kicking a vulnerable 19-year-old out into the world with no financial or emotional support.

Kill or cure, I suppose! It'll certainly show her....that her parents are arseholes.

This in spades.

And what Thelnebriati said.

She needs support from afar - she obviously needs a long scaffolding phase so make sure she always has space to come home if she needs to.

@Greenshrub I don’t think that’s fair. I was following advice from CAMHS to listen to how she felt and not to minimise stuff like her being upset over her weight and looks even though it may seem irrational to onlookers such as us. So, I’d tell her I disagreed and thought she was beautiful but that I was happy to listen to how she felt.

Reading your post, OP I was strongly reminded of my older neurodiverse sibling, who frankly never got over the birth of his younger siblings. I witnessed my (far from perfect) parents really put themselves out for him for years, to the detriment (in my opinion) of the younger siblings. He also had quite a lot of psychiatric intervention.

Obviously, he cannot help the way he is, nor can any of us. But, he was highly manipulative and controlling - he ruled the household for years as we grew up.

Eventually, he announced that he was going NC with the whole family (not sure what he thought I had done to him). He definitely damaged my relationship with my mother, because he insisted upon constant one to one time with her. I was sort of left to bring myself up. Please don't forget your younger children,
OP.

And yes, as others have said, it is interesting that your daughter hasn't quite connected going NC with continuing to be financially reliant on you. I have no answers, but I do sympathise with you.

You need to step back, emotionally.

Continue to pay for university and let her hide in her room when at home. If the subject comes up, tell her you've assumed she'll move out and take financial responsibility for herself when she starts work, or shortly afterwards. Don't tell her specially, let it come out in its own time.

If she tells you her childhood was toxic, tell her you're sorry she feels like that, and sorry that she had that experience. Remind her you love her.

Don't be 'desperate' about her. She's a kid. A stroppy kid expressing her independence. My goodness, they're a pain in the arse at that stage. Stay calm. She'll be furious. Stay calm. Tell her you are there when she wants to talk (if that's true).

You can't change the past. You can't make other people see things the way you see them (even if you know they are wrong and you are right!). All you can do is live with the situation as it is now. Let her get it off her chest. Protect yourself by emotionally distancing from the situation. Did you do your best? Yes. Did she like it? No. Can you do anything to change that? No. Don't chase after her. Be calm, be the safe, reassuring mother she's always had.

Yes I agree.
I have two DD’s both were slightly spoilt if I’m honest but grew up in a calm loving home no drama or illness with lots of family treats/holidays. However one DD regularly threw back at us about how awfully we treated her, without any examples.
I always had some concerns but health visitors teachers etc all seemed to think she was fine and academically she was very able.
Was diagnosed as autistic in her 20’s and everything has fallen into place and she seems a lot happier now she has a reason for why she feels different.

@horseyhorsey17, I will categorically NOT be casting her out or cutting her off even though it sometimes feels like she’s trying to push me to do just that. I’m her mother and I love her unconditionally and as I’ve told her repeatedly; for a long as I have a home, she has a loving home to come back to at any point, ever.

Fucking hell, there's so much projection on this thread it's unreal. Some posters are jumping on every damn thing the OP says.

OP I hope you're ok. I think your heartbreak comes through in every post.

Totally agree.

She will get a little perspective.

And she needs a different therapist.

That's really good to hear. I am prone to projecting on this as I was kicked out of home at her age and left to fend for myself. You do talk about her as though she's a spoiled madam though and as if none of what she's upset about is remotely valid, which may be true or may be not (seems unlikely given the CAHMS thing), but is going to elicit a lot of posts from people advocating treating her very harshly. Maybe worth thinking about what you really want from this thread?

unfortunately what you are experiencing is not uncommon at all. it's now an accepted narrative in this age group.

So you know her?

In terms of the comments about If she was in CAHMS then she had severe mental health - this is not true.
my 10 year old is under CAHMS, seen weekly !
she has mild anxiety - no threats of self harm etc
no melt downs and copes well.
she has some anxiety around going to school and sleeping on her own/ being on her own without myself etc

You must be heartbroken for her and for yourself OP, this is so so difficult. She is making life very difficult for you but also for herself, cutting herself off from what she doesn't even realise she needs. One thing you mentioned that I don't think anyone else picked up on - the pattern of falling out with friends- is indicative of a difficult personality and someone who finds that other people just don't match what she expects from them. I think you could drive yourself mad and create problems within the family otherwise if you try too hard to bend yourself to her will or perspective because there may be no 'bottom' to that well of discontent. I would be breezy, polite and fair but I would not put up with any behaviour which impacted severely on others, including you.

Do keep supporting her financially. But do stop phoning, texting her every day, that's smothering.
There's a saying I stuck to.

"Hold them close with open arms"

you've two more children, don't neglect them.

If she is neurodivergent like me, it will make her less vulnerable if you are able to help her into her first home, car, etc… once the basics are established, she won’t need you anymore and perhaps she can begin to heal from her experiences with you.
It’s the least you can do if she was emotionally neglected due to you being ill then taking on more children when you hadn’t fully met the needs of the first. That’s not her fault. Try to make the next stage of her life easier.

JFC... I think not. Are you serious? This site just gets more and more insane by the day.

@horseyhorsey17 I’m sorry you went through that. I’m sorry if you think I’ve referred to her or suggested she’s a ‘spoilt madam’ I don’t necessarily think that’s true although I do sometimes wonder if I have over indulged her in her early teenage years to try and make up for the time where I was ill.

And to the pps who suggested I forced upon her what I thought she wanted, I didn’t. I’d ask every year what she’d like to do for our special mum and daughter weekend and I’d make it as fun as possible for her. Twice we went to London for the weekend, once taking in a west end show that she wanted to see and another year, going to a concert of her choice. In terms of her bedroom, it hadn’t been done since she was little so thought she’d enjoy choosing what she wanted and giving her a more grown up environment. She seemed very excited but once it was finished she seemed not to like it. I want her to be happy which is why I started the thread. I guess you all only have my word for it but her childhood has been very loving even if I was struggling for close to 2yrs when she was 7.

You’ve clearly tried to back track your position based on the answers you got following your rather contemptuous op. In that she’s the problem not you, which does make me wonder if this young woman has a valid reason for her feelings.

You have to wonder how her other children are faring.

But doesnt that happens in all families?

I am third - the rules were entirely different for me. Ditto with my own DCs.

It is a result of expertise in the parents!

First time round you take home a new baby without having a clue what to do. Most of us learn on the job. By dc 3 you would have your pHd!

If she is neurodivergent like me, it will make her less vulnerable if you are able to help her into her first home, car, etc… once the basics are established, she won’t need you anymore and perhaps she can begin to heal from her experiences with you.
It’s the least you can do if she was emotionally neglected due to you being ill then taking on more children when you hadn’t fully met the needs of the first. That’s not her fault. Try to make the next stage of her life easier.

I don’t really know where to start with that. Firstly, the illness came after the children. Before her siblings were born, she appeared to be a very happy young child. She has not been emotionally neglected at any point in her life although I fully accept that whilst I was ill she undoubtedly got less input. I still always told her I loved her. I still read to her and cuddled her and tried my absolute best to keep it together for my 3 young children.

OP, tell her you love her but you understand if it is too painful to be around you. Stop throwing money at her, regardless of any problems she may have, it doesn't help or 'fix' things.
She doesn't want to be a member of your family then she doesn't get to enjoy the benefits. I would continue to fund her through uni though, I wouldn't be giving her any stick to beat you with or give her any reason to drop out.
After uni, rethink. Do not beg her for scraps... if she is unwilling to work through it with you like an adult, she doesn't get to use you as a lifelong emotional punchbag. Boundaries will be important with her.
If she requires support with her mental health and any ASD assessment then she needs to be on board, you can't do it all for her now at this age. Just support as best you can if she changes her mindset amd allows it.
Good luck.