Do narcissistic type abusers fake empathy especially in the beginning?

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In the beginning he seemed very caring and I’m sure empathetic when talking stories. I did notice he seemed to come out of his stories as the wronged party.

As the years went by he just appeared to have had an empathy transplant. It felt like hate but he didn’t want to leave me. (I did leave). I would say his empathy was transactional on whether he thought I was giving him enough of what he needed. He was very quick to say he wasn’t getting enough from me but I started to feel like why should I when you don’t care about anything that happens to me. For example when I told him his shouting made me anxious but he would always tell me I was too sensitive. That’s the point I said enough is enough as we both don’t seem to care anymore, it became really toxic and I didn’t like the way I was becoming.

He was a lot more devastated than I thought because I genuinely believed he couldn’t stand me. He said he couldn’t live without me and he had thoughts of suicide (well he didn’t and he moved on quite quickly). It’s all a bit of a head f##k. I became someone quite different but not for the better with him.

Yes. They don't really understand empathy. So even when they say all the right things, there's something off about it. They're the focus and it's all about how it makes THEM feel when they're supposedly being empathetic to someone else.

Don’t understand or just don’t care, I wonder what happened to their empathy?

No, they don't understand it. example: news story about a small child who has been killed by her father. The narcissist will express outrage and horror, but it will be centred on them, often OTT etc "Just thinking about it makes me so upset. How can anyone do that to a precious, innocent little child. I actually cried when I read that story." These are all sentiments we recognise and probably feel ourselves, but when you start to notice it, you see how the narcissist makes themselves the victim and it happens with every single such situation. For example, someone else might express how awful it must have been for the child. Might question what happened that this could happen? Might wonder how the mother feels etc etc. The narcissist probably won't do any of those things, or will do so superficially.

The only way you can move on from this type of person is to completely accept they have a totally disordered view of the world. It is actually very sad because they are often very unhappy because they genuinely cannot understand why people are upset with them or pushing back etc, but unfortunately, their behaviour is usually completely unacceptable, often abusive, and no one should have to deal with that.

He was a lot more devastated than I thought because I genuinely believed he couldn’t stand me. He said he couldn’t live without me and he had thoughts of suicide (well he didn’t and he moved on quite quickly this is all pretty standard too. Because they are only capable of considering their own needs and wants. So there might well have been arguments, and discussions and unhappiness. But the narcissist is getting supply from the other person so a) they like an emotional response, even if it's a negative one and b) they honestly don't understand why they should change their behaviour because it works for them.

They are then genuinely surprised when you end the relationship. And will do whatever it takes to get you back. But if you stand firm, they'll move on to a new source of supply very quickly.

That is what I’ve struggled to understand. Why if and he says I was a terrible partner who couldn’t meet his needs at all did he not just leave and find someone who could. Why did it take a nervous breakdown from me for that to be the ending. So what you are saying is that even in all the arguments and the toxicity he still wanted to carry on as he got attention, be it bad and usually involved me breaking down and crying.

Nice as pie to start with, otherwise nobody would touch them with a bargepole.

Cos he likes the fact that he can get that sort of power over you

There is not one group of people who are "narcissistic abusers" that all behave in one set way and are all the same.

Just because you dont like someone, and your relationship has ended, does not mean they are narcissistic.

Nothing in your post looks remotely narcissistic, just that you were incompatible.

@sharptoothlemonshark it got quite bad in the end he started throwing things at me and pinned me up against the wall screaming at me if I tried to tell him I didn’t ageee with what he was doing. He found it hard at work as he started to do it with anyone moving up, started fights and accusations.

Check out Mental Healness on Youtube. Very helpful! It's helped me. My post history discusses what I went through.

Empathy never really forms in those sorts to begin with.

The 'why do they stay if they hate me?' question is actually pretty simple when you realise the context in which they view 'relationships'. You are not their partner, you are their victim.

Depending on the degree of malignancy thry have (all npd and similar lack empathy, which is terrifying. But on to of that, some have high rates of malignancy too).

So for example, a narcissist higher on the malignancy scale might act like they hate you, deliberately to hurt you. Because that's how they feed.

But it's important to remember that ultimately all of those sort will hate you, irregardless. Because they are innately jealous, cold, and annoyed that they couldn't assimilate 'you'.

They think they deserve your things, your life, your ability just "be" and be happy in yourself without having to drain other people dry like they do. They hate you because they cannot.

They may even have painted you in their heads as the perfect source to quench their bottomless emptiness. But the fact is, ultimately they are a cup with a hole in them that can never be filled.

They are like robots who want to be real boys.

That's best case scenario. Worst case scenario, higher malignancy rates, they don't want to be you. They just want to hurt you.

Either way, narcissists want to destroy good, kindness, joy, and self love/worth. Because it is an affront to their souls...or rather, the place where their souls would be if they weren't totally empty inside.

@Pinkbonbon Im surprised at the level of hate he has for me. He was the one who did the awful things to me and I don’t have the capacity to hate him as much as he hate me. I’ve kind of put it to bed for the sake of the child we share. Contact is unfortunately court ordered and he uses his time to tell our child how everything was my fault and that I’m a monster.

This is exactly it. It's disordered thinking. To a normal person, if someone says these sorts of things, it's a clear sign that there's a huge problem.

Let me give you an example - SIL regularly receives streams of abuse from her ex. Literally some of the most vicious, vile things you can imagine. Usually it starts with some sort of minor disagreement, then he escalates it and the abuse starts - 10s of messages. She, obviously, just stops responding at this point. Then, a few hours later, she'll get a message from him saying something like, "Hi, can I pop by and pick up the boys for an early lunch tomorrow? Thanks for having them last night. x"

For normal people, that makes NO sense. It's incomprehensible that someone could say or think these things and then be totally casual and relaxed and even kind, the next day. And this was the pattern while they were together too.

As a PP said, he doesn't really see you as a person. You're just there to meet his needs. So in his world, his behaviour is irrelevant. He WANTS you to stay, so you should.

@GingerIsBest so does that mean he knows that his behaviour is damaging or simply not aware. I mean he has no idea he was the cause of my ptsd. He think he did no wrong and he did everything for me, he was an amazing partner. I caused myself ptsd.

If I met his needs better would I have been treated better? Obviously no one exists solely to meet another’s needs as we have needs of our own also. I only ask as he appears to be better towards his current partner. I think she is better at meeting his needs. I found him bonkers really and struggled especially during the end. I couldn’t stick up for him as he did ridiculous things that were his fault.

Well they all vary there but...

Potentially they hate you more for trying to meet their needs, in the longterm at least. They need to paint you as the bad guy. They want to see you fall. Because in their world there are only winners and losers and in order to win, they have to crush you. If your life is happy...they are losing. If you are too comfortable with them, they are losing.

They do not see you as on their team. They see you as the opposition. So if you do something nice for them they feel like you are trying to get something from them. Because that's how they treat others.

So an example would be - they don't actually give gifts, they give obligations. They give you something nice as a 'now you owe me'. So some narcissists can even be very uncomfortable if you try to give them a gift (just some, many love gifts) because THEY give obligations and how dare you expect anything from them!?!

But basically bare in mind that you are their enemy. Especially once you've left them. So if you show kindness, compromise ect...it'll be taken as weakness. And they crush weakness.

You cannot ever really meet their needs either because you can't fix evil. These sort always want something else. They are never happy with what or who they have. Because they turn that person into their competition.

No, he doesn't realise or care. Even if he is aware that these sorts of behaviours are not okay, he justifies them to himself (and to you, and to everyone else) based on what he perceives as your faults/negative behaviours. another example from SIL's ex. He did something borderline violent to her but he doesn't even hide it or minimise it. He said to DH (in a text message, no less, so we have it in writing) that "she deserved it because she was taunting me about going out with another man" (for the record a) they were broken up b) she hadn't gone on a date but had just spent an evening with a group of friends that happened to include a man her ex had never liked c) she wasn't 'taunting' him).

Anyway, the point is - in the real world, when an abusive person who does not have disordered thinking is caught in their abuse, they don't just casually admit it and offer a justification and assume that everyone will agree with them. They minimise/lie/fake-apologise.

As for meeting his needs: nope, it's impossible. The goal posts would simply have moved. He's not behaving better to his current partner. He might be in the love bombing phase, but at some point he will do all the same things he did to you.

He tells our son that she deserves to be treated better because she actually works and contributes etc etc. I did until I got unwell from stress. I know with me we were young and didn’t have anything when we met. His gf now has a house and a good job, he stands more to loose. She is about 15 years younger than him and backs him up and makes him look good. She also does most of the caring of our child. She is very “useful” to him. It’s like they are a team and the hate comes all my way. He truly believes I was the cause of all the problems.

I was treated really well until I said something one time he didn’t like. I believe it was about his mum. It wasn’t serious, I just said something like I don’t feel comfortable around her. He always used to say his mum was untouchable at the top above me and I just didn’t know how to respond. As soon as I said that comment I fell far down in his opinion and the hate started.

It won't last. As you say - he's getting what he needs from her currently. But it will change and it will get worse. Right now, she think you're the crazy ex. But in a few years, she'll realise that actually, you weren't crazy.

@GingerIsBest who knows, perhaps she is extremely giving. I know I’ve had conversations with my son and he says things along the lines of she is stronger than you mummy because she just holds it in and carries on as she knows she’ll be shouted at probably. I try and explain that you should be able to tell the people you love your feelings, it’s not strong at all to hold in all your feelings. He has been coming back saying that he doesn’t want to tell daddy when he feels sad and he waits to come home to me. I pretty much get the bad behaviour then.

I know that’s how it all started for me. I stopped bothering to explain how I felt. I eventually got sick. I tried to hold back my wants and my morals and twisted myself into a mess.

Hi

Sounds to me like your ex is planting these words in your son's head knowing at some point he will say them to you.
How old is your son?

This man is nasty ,you did your best & wore yourself out right, and you'll never please him because he's unhappy.

who knows, perhaps she is extremely giving. I know I’ve had conversations with my son and he says things along the lines of she is stronger than you mummy because she just holds it in and carries on as she knows she’ll be shouted at probably.

Well, I'd be saying to my son something like, "well, sometimes it's good to hold things together and that does make you strong, but it's not nice that she is worried about being shouted at and that makes her have to act a certain way is it?"

And ditto, as he gets older, if he feels like he's walking on eggshells, he won't want to go there either.

If it's an option for you, I would see if you can find a counsellor. You are struggling to move on from this relationship, you still seem to think that you did something or behaved in a way that somehow justified or triggered his abusive behaviour and that therefore this other woman is "better" than you. It's all bollocks. Abusive people choose people who will meet their needs to be abusive. It's useful for you to figure out why you were one of those people and how you can protect yourself in the future.

@GingerIsBest I just meant that perhaps she is better at fulfilling his needs. I’m quite cynical and often question and say what I think. When I left and saw a therapist she said I come off quite badly because I was difficult to control. I got his worst an awful lot. But then I put up with it because of my childhood issues, which I’ve looked at now. Some people are just better suited (well in cases of abuse like you say they are more controllable). He threatened my life in the end and that’s what kicked me into leaving. He thought absolutely nothing of what he threatened the following day whereas I was completely shell shocked.

@almostthere75 who knows if he says those things for me to here. I think maybe some one has to be the monster in order for him to look like a hero and I happen to be the monster. It’s all about him looking amazing more so then about me.

PTSD comes from being in a position where you are possibly going to die through violence or someone else is,

OP - she's not better at meeting his needs. I promise you. Give it time.

Men like this don't miraculously become better. They just hide it better, or for longer, until the next victim has been suitably warmed up.

When I left and saw a therapist she said I come off quite badly because I was difficult to control. I got his worst an awful lot.

You need a new therapist. She is in effect suggesting you are to blame for his behaviour. Bollocks to that.