Do narcissistic type abusers fake empathy especially in the beginning?

[5minslate]

In the beginning he seemed very caring and I’m sure empathetic when talking stories. I did notice he seemed to come out of his stories as the wronged party.

As the years went by he just appeared to have had an empathy transplant. It felt like hate but he didn’t want to leave me. (I did leave). I would say his empathy was transactional on whether he thought I was giving him enough of what he needed. He was very quick to say he wasn’t getting enough from me but I started to feel like why should I when you don’t care about anything that happens to me. For example when I told him his shouting made me anxious but he would always tell me I was too sensitive. That’s the point I said enough is enough as we both don’t seem to care anymore, it became really toxic and I didn’t like the way I was becoming.

He was a lot more devastated than I thought because I genuinely believed he couldn’t stand me. He said he couldn’t live without me and he had thoughts of suicide (well he didn’t and he moved on quite quickly). It’s all a bit of a head f##k. I became someone quite different but not for the better with him.

@GingerIsBest ah ok I kind of had an idea in my head that as long as you give them what they want then they won’t start with the really bad stuff. Obviously it’s all wrong but I thought some people are just willing to accept certain behaviours more, maybe people pleasers etc. I thought it was the challenging that triggered the abuse. If you dote on them and keep them filled and happy they are ok. Obviously not sustainable as life happens.

I was a people pleaser myself and hated speaking up for myself, I thought I could fix him but neglected the fact I had my own needs. Our needs were not aligned at all.

This book will really help you OP. It really helped me after being with a narcissist/abuser.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling-ebook/dp/B000Q9J0RO

Nope.

Plus, often, giving them exactly what they want still makes you the victim if it is not what YOU want.

I think there are people who can muddle along quite happily for years because the "victim" actually agrees with everything the abuser does - you see it with women for example who are quite happy to be the SAHM, not to have any social life outside of the home, see their role as being about making life nice and easy for everyone else etc.

But then one day, she decides she wants something different. Perhaps the kids are older and she thinks she might join a hobby group. Or get a little job because, after all, "he's such a good dad" so it doesn't occur to her that he'll resent the fact that one morning a week he now has to do the school run or that she'll be at her sewing club on Tuesday evenings.

Or, years after having babies, she gets them off to school and starts thinking about her self. Takes up running or goes to the gym, starts thinking about different meals as a way to be healthier or slimmer etc etc.

And then she's completely thrown because the man she's been with for years and who she thought was such a wonderful partner and dad actually isn't.

I suppose they are all different at the end of the day and behave in different ways. Our needs change over time and things happen like you say. The girlfriend maybe ok for now focusing on his needs until something arises. I remember my dad who sadly passed away from cancer and he had absolutely no interest in it at all. To him it was like nothing was happening. My focus was on my dad so he just ignored me, it was awful.

Well I mean if she knows if she doesn't 'hold it all in' he'll shout at her then she's already being abused isn't she. Either your sons seen it happen or your ex has told him that's how he intends to act.

@Pinkbonbon he has seen it happen. He also says to me I don’t tell daddy when I’m sad because I don’t want him to get mad at me.

Yes, they fake empathy. He will treat the new woman badly soon enough (though it sounds like it's already started)

@cocavino its sounds like she is in the keep the peace stage to me. She is lucky because he has stopped drinking, that’s when he was bad a lot of the time.

@5minslate she is not lucky, because she has to deal with him all of the time.

I understand the feeling of frustration and worrying whether they would have been nicer to you if you had been good enough/better/more. But a narcissist can't really improve without serious intervention - all they can do is hide their true natures a bit better, for longer.

It's also possible that she has her own personal defects which you don't know about.

My ex and his girlfriend are both just awful. Whether or not they are actually narcissists, they are both entitled, mean, selfish arseholes. They are farther along in their relationship than it sounds like your ex and his new lady are, and now I am seeing cracks showing (from afar). I have been watching things progress with interest.

Narcissists learn what you like and what you say and repeat it back to you so it looks like empathy. They have low empathy and low remorse, it's a form of survival to protect themselves, they can't love or care for anyone but themselves.

He wouldn't want you to leave though because that would be a form of rejection and they cannot cope with any rejection - or to be to blame/responsible for anything. You are like a pet, you belong to him and he thinks he can treat you however he sees fit and you should be grateful - because he thinks he is amazing.

Well his ego tells him he is amazing anyway - but that ego needs constant feeding because he has no genuine self esteem - there's a big black hole right there. No real personality, doesn't really know who he is, is a chameleon and just tries to be what he thinks people want.

Often people are put on a pedestal to start with, then they turn out to not be perfect enough (no one ever could be) and holes start to show. Then the adoration gradually turns to hate. Any relationship is just like a very thin sheet of ice, there's never any real depth and the cracks soon start to show.

@takemeawayagain it must feel so confusing to be someone who has no personality but needs a to be admired all the time. What are they underneath your admiration? I know when I left he turned odd, started writing weird poems etc. They sound like people pleasers or like dependants. They sound very lost.

Thinking about it they do sound like they have a personality and it’s like a child’s personality. They want constant attention and admiration no matter what they up to. They sound like they live to please in order to get that admiration which they deserve because they did something they think you wanted.

I think that some of these types are capable of something like empathy when you're still just a blank canvas, or a mirror reflecting back their rosy view of themselves. But with these types you're either with them reflecting back their view of themselves OR....... you're against them. If you don't give 100% buy in to their perception of themself, then you're BAD

Most emotionally mature people can fathom that how they view themselves is a bit different to how others perceive themselves. And if you have just met them and if you're still operating under the belief that they are who they believe they are, then you can be labelled a GOOD person in their eyes and at that point they are capable of something like empathy. I think.

But the moment you make them feel uncomfortable or ashamed by making it clear that your perception of them is a bit different to their perception of themself,then whoah, you are instantly BAD and they will have NO empathy. ZERO. None. You are in fact their enemy.

You could be right there - a child's personality because they stopped growing up at the point where the trauma happened that turned them narcissistic. Mine was very emotionally immature but pretended to be so many things that he wasn't that I had no idea.

It's been argued by some that npd forms at around 2 to 3 years old and borderline personality disorder around the age of 4 ad the result of trauma. Hense why certain aspects of their personality are stunted. They stopped developing at that age.

Narcs don't realise that they don't have a personality! They have a perception of who they are. They don't realise it's a hologram that requires external confirmation. They think it's real. So the second you seem to see something else in them, they hate you. You're wicked.

NOTHING more entertaining than the social media posts of a narcissist after he's finally dumped by his victim.

If they have kids, it's also when they ramp up the "these children are my LIFE" rhetoric.

Yes, and like @Pinkbonbon says re stunted as children.

Let's face it, most children are narcissists - everything is about them, they don't want to take responsibility for things etc etc. As parents, our job is to help them to mature and grow. And it's not really coincidental that they do genuinely have trauma in their past. It doesn't excuse the way they behave, but nonetheless, it does make me feel very sorry for them.

I think that they feel powerful when they witness you feeling powerless. So they are literally taking the strength from you.

I remember years ago, oh, many many many years ago, my x seemed to be UNMOVED by my deepest distress and I thought, finally, if somebody can't feel for you when you're in your darkest hour begging for empathy, there is something wrong with THEM.

I remember reading a description that ego needs to be pumped up every day, or regularly anyway. The sort of thing that would pump up the ego of a narc would be upsetting somebody they're in a relationship with. Not just seeing you upset. But specifically having the power to make you upset - that is like scribbling ''i was here'' on a wall. They feel like they exist for a minute.

They mirror in the initial stages.

They don't feel empathy, and they've probably never shown it. But they can spin a good yarn about beloved family pets or nieces and nephews they adore, or their dear old gran in the nursing home, etc.

OP all your posts ring true for me - so much hatred directed at my bewildered self so why on earth would he want to stay with such a horrible person as I? Eventually I cottoned on to the fact he actually enjoyed seeing me in distress and that's when I walked out on him. He fell apart but, you guessed it, very quickly moved on.

As for wondering if they have any insight into themselves, well I played a blinder against him one day. I waited till we were out in public so he couldn't get violent with me and then said to him, "I hope that when your daughter grows up she meets someone just like you". Any normal father would be flattered but he KNEW exactly what I was saying and gave me a look medusa would be proud of. Wow, that really hit him where it hurt. (Incidentally I do not hope his daughter meets someone like him - I just wanted to see his reaction). So in my ex-partner's case he was aware of what a hideous creature he was. That's why he hated to be alone with himself and drank himself into a stupor at every opportunity - it's how he escaped the reality of being him. xx

@ChanelNo19EDT that makes a lot of sense about reflecting the image of how they view themselves. I can definitely see that in my relationship with him. When I was on board I was everything, when I wasnt that was when I was in trouble. He despised being seen as anything other thin the man, the hero, the hard worker, working and providing for me. He couldn’t understand the fact he wasn’t special in the fact he went to work etc etc. I couldn’t ask him for help around the house. When I was taking care of our baby I was accused of sitting on my arse all day. He was the only one doing anything for our family. He didn’t see a single thing that I did.

@Pinkbonbon it makes me worry about my own son. He has very little empathy for others and is extremely self oriented in any situation. He struggles to maintain friends as he has to be in control and win etc. he is late primary age.

@BigTubOfLard this is where I get confused. I thought narcissistic people loved themselves so much that no one was good enough. I don’t really understand why they unravel when alone. This love of themselves must not really be real. They must love how you make them feel. I suppose no one wants to be made to feel bad about themselves but sometimes we do bad things and need to apologies as we aren’t perfect.