Do narcissistic type abusers fake empathy especially in the beginning?

[5minslate]

In the beginning he seemed very caring and I’m sure empathetic when talking stories. I did notice he seemed to come out of his stories as the wronged party.

As the years went by he just appeared to have had an empathy transplant. It felt like hate but he didn’t want to leave me. (I did leave). I would say his empathy was transactional on whether he thought I was giving him enough of what he needed. He was very quick to say he wasn’t getting enough from me but I started to feel like why should I when you don’t care about anything that happens to me. For example when I told him his shouting made me anxious but he would always tell me I was too sensitive. That’s the point I said enough is enough as we both don’t seem to care anymore, it became really toxic and I didn’t like the way I was becoming.

He was a lot more devastated than I thought because I genuinely believed he couldn’t stand me. He said he couldn’t live without me and he had thoughts of suicide (well he didn’t and he moved on quite quickly). It’s all a bit of a head f##k. I became someone quite different but not for the better with him.

I've thought about that too, the idea that narcissists love themselves: but it's not true self love, it's vanity. People who genuinely like themselves don't need constant affirmations (narcissistic supply). Take me for example: I believe I'm a good person so I don't need anybody else to tell me this.

Narcissists unravel when you leave them because it shoots down their strongly-held but evidentially weak sense that they are good people and better than everyone else. It doesn't take much to shatter their extremely fragile egos, albeit only temporarily. Then they'll desperately try to reel you back in and/or seek out another source of narcissistic supply.

The other posters are dead right that he's already making his new partner's life difficult - your son has told you this so don't beat yourself up thinking that she's doing a better job than you did.

I stopped trying to work out why my ex-partner was so horrible. Now I just accept that he is that way; like a scorpion he can't help being poisonous - it's his nature.

Going forward, the best revenge is to live life well, but if you need something to make yourself feel better just remember that every day he wakes up and is still himself; would you wish that curse on anybody? xx

With the one I know he seemed to care and always had a similar story (mirroring) to make me feel like he really "got" me, in reality he hoovered up information then stored it to twist and use against me later. He did the same to my dad talking about my late mother, so when things went rocky he threw a twisted version of things dad had said about her and me to him too. They are only nice when they feel they are winning IME. Mine also had bi-polar so it is hard to unpick which symptoms went with which diagnosis, but it all just meant that everything was always my fault. He got drunk and high? My fault, how could I not see that? He was the only one "capable" of doing everything, I was a mess (despite him clearly not being very well mentally or physically to everyone who had a pair of eyes). It's hugely de-stabalising and the only way I could deal with it was to go cold turkey, explain if you need to what and why you are doing, then block and try to protect your peace. Once you cut off their supply you'll only hear from them when their other sources run dry on an intermittent basis.

Sounds a lot like they just stuck with a child’s brain thinking if they do good things they will get and expect gold star stickers only most adults moved away from that thinking ages ago. I do nice things for my partner because I want to but it’s when I want to and I don’t want anything in return. I’m not doing it because I want him to thank me. I won’t ask for those things to be returned if we split, like my ex who took back my wedding and engagement ring and the things we brought together. It appears they were only only loan whilst I was on his side. It doesn’t sound disordered it just sounds childish. But it’s done by an adult so that tantrums are scary.

I won’t ask for those things to be returned if we split, like my ex who took back my wedding and engagement ring and the things we brought together. It appears they were only only loan whilst I was on his side.

I have come across a few narcissists in my time - a flatmate was one and the ex of my friend is another. And this really resonates. My friend's ex had contributed almost nothing to the household financially throughout the relationship. But had a complete meltdown when he moved out that he wanted her to buy him out for the two things he had paid half for - one couch and a tv. Bearing in mind that she was left with the children and all the bills and it was pretty openly acknowledge that he would never ever pay any sort of child support....

In the end she told him to take the TV, she kept the couch and bought a new tv.

The flatmate - acted like a victim throughout our time living together so that I had supported her financially and emotionally, then had the most ridiculous meltdown when we moved out because...

I'd been sorting out the kitchen and had separated all the herbs/spices out for her/me to take. As she was not a very exciting eater, I'd simply put all the ones she didn't like to one side and anything she did like to the other. Her pile was slightly bigger as it included basics like salt and pepper etc than mine but I figured I wasn't going to get worked up about a pot of rosemary or whatever.

She walked in, saw the piles and assumed I was taking the bigger pile and went on a total rant about how unfair it was etc etc etc. By then I was so tired of her I let her rant at me for a bit then said something like, "if you look, you'll see the smaller section are spices you won't eat, which I've separated for myself to take and left all the rest for you. But maybe you're right, it's not fair and I should have some from the bigger pile". And then left the room. They are irrational and genuinely have no idea how normal people act and behave. They see everything through their own lens - which is to always get the most out of everyone and everything.

Haha leaving a narcissist is definitely when you see their true colours!

I'd pick up any book I could find on developing childhood empathy. Get him a pet maybe and focus on development of empathy through caring for the animal (with your help). Praise him when he is kind and chastise him when he is cruel. Be fair but firm. Make sure his dad backs you up always infront of him. Read books and watch shows with him that have kind and heroic lead characters. Talk about how amazing these characters are, praise them for their strengths.

I'd also get him to a gp fast to rule out underlying issues.

I throughly believe things can be changed if you catch them early enough.

But looking back I can see it in kids as young as 7. And those kids...didn't change. Tbf though, maybe because their parents didn't.

Some degree of selfishness is normal in kids though so hopefully he's fine! But take no chances.

I think with a lot of effort they can cognitively understand it but they don't FEEL it emotionally

5minslate

From my own experience I would say that narcs understand enough about empathy to be able to trigger it in others, they do this mainly by twisting everything and making themselves the victim.

People that go along with this are fine until they expose the narcs for what they are, then they get the full force of it.

@FrippEnos I definitely think they like it when others have it. I remember him telling me when we first met he’d waited his whole life for me. Bloody brilliant lol

I think the therapist meant ‘come off badly’ as in that she was and is being treated badly, not that she looks bad.

Yes, but basically the therapist is saying that she got treated badly because op is difficult to control. That's not an OK statement from a therapist. It suggests op is at least partially responsible for her treatment.

The point is that this man is controlling ans abusive and it really doesn't matter what op did or did not do... the abuse was always going to be a factor. The therapist is wrong to.suggest the abuse is in response to.amything about the op.

I think what they meant was that with he wasn’t particularly malicious. He was the kind where as long as his needs were met he was happy. As the relationship went on and I wasn’t meeting his needs the abuse got worse. I know there are just plain nasty abusers who pick women to abuse. I don’t believe he is like this.

I think this is spot on. They know they should comfort the person in particular situations, based on interactions they’ve seen in the past, but they don’t actually feel it.

STBXH actually said this out loud one time. A friend was having a family crisis and came over and he gave her a hug. He said after she’d left that he knew he should do that based on how upset she was when she arrived, which seemed an odd comment to make. Like he was wanting some kind of validation for it or trying to show me how empathetic he is.

((Narrators voice: “He was not, in fact, empathetic at all”))

And I stand by my assertion that you need a new.therapist.

An abusive man will find ways to abuse you.

Needing to 100% meet a man's "needs" so that he does not abuse you is still abuse.

If.your therapist doesn't understand that, you need a new one.

She was training at the time and that was a while ago during a support group. Yes I agree that he had abusive behaviours. I don’t think I believe he was purposefully abusive or choosing women to abuse. I think he was/is picking kind empathetic women because he thinks he is or because they accept him. He is just triggered when he feels rejection like he suddenly feels not accepted. It seems to be all or nothing with him. I don’t know, I can’t really understand what’s happening in his head. I don’t know what he is. I just know the less you made him feel good the worse he was and the more he became depressed.

Look, OP, I get that you're trying to get your head around this and it's hard. But you continue to operate from this sort of idea that his abuse is in reaction to things other people do. And that is simply NOT how abuse works.

Yes, you're right that he picks empathetic women. Because women with stronger boundaries would kick him out much earlier.

You cannot understand what's in his head becuase what's in his head does not make sense to a normal, rational person. It's hard to accept that, but once you do, it will be easier to move on with your life.

Yes, you're right that he picks empathetic women. Because women with stronger boundaries would kick him out much earlier.

Just to expand, let me give you an example here. SIL was regularly ghosted in the early stages of their relationship. They'd have a minor argument about something - she'd want to go to the gym after work and he'd be all snippy as he'd finished at 2 and wanted to hang out. He would then disappear for up to a week at a time. Culminating in, on his return, her apologising and trying to justify why she needed to go to the gym and agreeing some sort of "compromise" like she'd only go once a week or she'd go at lunch time.

I can 100% guarantee you, that if I was in the early days of a relationship with a man like this, I wouldn't have put up with it. Maybe the first time, but by the time it had happened more than once, I'd have move on.

Similarly, even when someone does something that's not okay, a normal, healthy person, when challenged, can see that. Early days of dating DH - at th pub with some of my friends. I greeted a male, single, gorgeous male friend enthusiastically - hug, kiss etc. DH was upset. Felt I was being "disrespectul". I told him I wasn't going to stop hugging my friends because of him and he was being ridiculous. He thought about it. Apologised at the end of the evening. Never did it again and has been known to comment to me how embarrassed he is now thinking about it.

Why does he need someone to champion him? Is he looking for unconditional love like you get from your parents?

Narcissists don't feel anything. The fake it all or mimic someone else and it's always centred on them. You are upset, then they are upset because they upset you. My ex and my DM were like this.

They stay not because of you. You are an object and a convenience to them. My DM when we all left what was my home never bothered with me again really. I was of no further use to her. My ex was really quite cheery when he left me and our baby broken and in tears fully expecting he could come back when it suited him.